[Video] How does this make you feel?
- Thread starter Ytterbium
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Depends on the situation, but generally low level intel can be obtained by torture as opposed to regular interrogation. the threat of violence works well, but violence itself works better. Weapons cache, hide out locations and other information have been obtained by torture.
I consider sleep deprivation a form of torture as well. Waterboarding obviously and psychological humiliation works as well. I still consider America at the forefront of torture techniques, because generally they try to be as humane as possible. psychological damage and trauma is very possible if the subject refuses to cooperate and draws out the torture, but at the end he will not be maimed or physically damaged, as opposed to Syrian torture specialists who prefer a more hands on approach.
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![[-project.rattus-]](/data/avatars/s/0/161.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
That is one of the most bull**** statements I have ever read on these forums, and believe me, with RO attractig lot's of "WW2 germany fans", that's quite a feat you achieved there.
Torture isn't humane, and never will be, no matter if it leaves physical scars or not.
And and even at "low intelligence levels", the resulting intelligence of torture is dubious at best.
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I didn't say they were humane, only that they tried to be. It's the intent that matters. American torture specialist are very good at making torture as comfortable as possible. Again, I'm not saying it's comfortable, just that you cannot find a more comfortable torture experience outside of US hands.
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And there you are, disproving your own point. Torture, including the means applied by various agiencies of the USA, doesn't intent to be humane. The intent is to force information out of suspects by physical and/or psychological violence.
EDIT: And that sentence is wrong on almost all levels. It's never the intent that matters (unless it's a badly chosen gift by someone and you need to make him or her feel comfortable about giving you something rubbish), it's always how it's done.
Hitler intented germany to become the greatest nation in the world. Now that alone doesn't sound that bad. But the means by which he tried to achive it made him one of the greatest evils the world has ever seen.
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The US is known for its relatively humane torture techniques and ensures that all of its captive prisoners are healthy and well fed. 
Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay, Cock Meat Sandwich Scene - YouTube
Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay, Cock Meat Sandwich Scene - YouTube
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The intent is for it to be uncomfortable enough for the subject to give up information while being comfortable enough for the subject to leave without physical harm.
That's very humane by comparison to the kinds of torture used by the French, or even America during the 60s.
If the intent was simply to obtain information, they'd use a blowtorch. Clearly, the severity of torture is completely mitigated by an intent to be humane.
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That is a highly cynical approach to the subject matter. I have to say it again, torture can never ever, under no circumstances be humane.
The comparison is about as moot as the discussion if a 45 cal pistol round or a .50 cal sniper round is less lethal when applied to the head.
The answer is: both are lethal, only one is more excessively so.
Same with torture: any kind is inhumane, some are just more excessively so.
Also, using physical scars as a measure to acting humanely is quite iffy. There are means to break a person psyche to the point where they can't recover without leaving a physical mark.
It doesn't matter if they cut of a finger, use a blowtorch or waterboard, torture isn't any more ore less humane, it's still the same: a means to get someone to say what you WANT to hear from that person (note: NOT to say THE TRUTH).
IMHO, the whole "humane" torture rethoric is a mere PR gag to get the citizens of the US to support, or at least tolerate torture. Which it seemingly does successfully.
The comparison is about as moot as the discussion if a 45 cal pistol round or a .50 cal sniper round is less lethal when applied to the head.
The answer is: both are lethal, only one is more excessively so.
Same with torture: any kind is inhumane, some are just more excessively so.
Also, using physical scars as a measure to acting humanely is quite iffy. There are means to break a person psyche to the point where they can't recover without leaving a physical mark.
It doesn't matter if they cut of a finger, use a blowtorch or waterboard, torture isn't any more ore less humane, it's still the same: a means to get someone to say what you WANT to hear from that person (note: NOT to say THE TRUTH).
IMHO, the whole "humane" torture rethoric is a mere PR gag to get the citizens of the US to support, or at least tolerate torture. Which it seemingly does successfully.
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I never said it was morally acceptable, just relatively comfortable and humane.
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Which, while true (as would be saying that vomit is a better meal than vomit mixed with excrement), is still making it sound harmless. Which it isn't.
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rattus said:
Cmon Rattus, you know the type you're dealing with. Not a single person I deal with on a daily basis (all of them US citizens) would consider torture of any type to be 'tolerable'. The very definition of torture implies the intent, there's no way around that. This guy is deluded.
Does this guy think 'humane torture with good intentions' is happening right now in the CIA black sites across the globe? Time to take off the 'rose-colored, everything the US does is noble' glasses.
Ever heard of SERE? ..or the Pheonix Program?
Here is an excerpt from a 'New Yorker' article.. now tell me these guys are acting in a 'humane' fashion.
Agency scientists found that in just a few hours some subjects suspended in water tanks
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Hence the "seemingly". Could've worded it differently to make it more clear it works on johncage at least, but it wasn't my intetion to attack him personally. After all, we all love a good argument that doesn't turn into yelling insults at each other.
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I hope johncage never works himself into any position of power. Actually, any kind of position. The prospect of it makes my heart sink.
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