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HC FPS gamer here, a few suggestions.

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FYI gateway theory is BS. I started smoking pot some years ago. Am I doing coke and meth now? No and never will.

As BoeLynx (weird *** name but nice post) put it, putting in FFA would take time and resources that I personally would rather see be put into adding an IS-2 into the game.
 
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If you need an objective reason as to why FFA would be a bad idea, all you need to think about is how maps would have to be designed with it in mind.

You can't just drop a bunch of spawn locations in existing objective-based maps. Most of the locations would be unprotected and TBH simply recycling old maps is to work with every gametype is bad form. Tripwire would need to spend time designing new maps that accommodate large amounts of players and make sure they're balanced enough to allow for decent gameplay.

Also, if you're going to spend time on that, you might as well include other arena gametypes like TDM and Domination/King of the Hill.

It's not just a matter of adding a new option to play with. It's a huge design choice for the game, and I really don't think RO is meant for it.
 
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TDM (a.k.a firefight in RO2) should be enough. Running around shooting at 50% of what moves must be enough and could be something of the concept of "a gateway drug", as the leap is not huge from that to regular RO2 gaming. TDM should in theory be a good thing as then people who "play to kill" can choose to not ruin the experience for those who "play to win", if you missunderstand me correctly ;).
 
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You can't just drop a bunch of spawn locations in existing objective-based maps. Most of the locations would be unprotected and TBH simply recycling old maps is to work with every gametype is bad form. Tripwire would need to spend time designing new maps that accommodate large amounts of players and make sure they're balanced enough to allow for decent gameplay.

When in regular gametypes you are spawning on your squadleader, you get spawned somewhere where someone is not looking similar to the killing floor enemies in KF. And preferably as far away from the other enemies for instance.

That system could be used in a FFA game as well so everybody randomly gets spawned somewhere over the map but never in someones sight. FFA is pure chaos and is supposed to be that. Its not something I would play continuously, but to let off some steam at times its a great outlet.
 
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TDM (a.k.a firefight in RO2) should be enough. Running around shooting at 50% of what moves must be enough and could be something of the concept of "a gateway drug", as the leap is not huge from that to regular RO2 gaming. TDM should in theory be a good thing as then people who "play to kill" can choose to not ruin the experience for those who "play to win", if you missunderstand me correctly ;).

And even then, TDM in RO2 will be much more tactical than any other game with TDM.
 
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FFA or the very old expression of it which would be DM dont fit in this game,you can have sort of not FFA but TDM experience in RO on CQC map such as Danzig...You can play on that map,without trying to cap anything and you will have the TDM rush you want since its a small map and there is the feeling of jumping in the meat grinder right away.

Also RO2 will have the remake of Danzig map for people that they want to jump in and start shooting immediatelly.
 
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Seems people have to stand on one side of the line or the other. lol

After getting a chance to see the game, I think RO guys have created something special. I think Tripwire just needs a gateway drug to get the COD community involved.

You could call this my last ditch effort to suggest one thing that would bring over casual players/clans into this game and it would be create a FFA game.
Well, you've run into some of the "hardcore" RO fans here, so they stand about 300 miles east of whatever line :)

As for the "gateway drug": funnily enough, it is an expression we've used internally in thinking about this. Sure, a mad free-for-all, TDM game-mode is hardly "hardcore realism", but it CAN be fun. Do we want RO to then drop all the "more complex" gametypes? Absolutely not - we want to draw people down the slippery slope towards the RO style of gameplay. But to do that, you have to get them to buy the game in the first place...
 
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Well, you've run into some of the "hardcore" RO fans here, so they stand about 300 miles east of whatever line :)

As for the "gateway drug": funnily enough, it is an expression we've used internally in thinking about this. Sure, a mad free-for-all, TDM game-mode is hardly "hardcore realism", but it CAN be fun. Do we want RO to then drop all the "more complex" gametypes? Absolutely not - we want to draw people down the slippery slope towards the RO style of gameplay. But to do that, you have to get them to buy the game in the first place...

Well there is a TDM mode for that, Firefight or what ever it's called, and i can see that beeing some good mindless fun every now and again, and expect it is where a lot of people will start out.

And TDM does work with realism based games, absolutely, we've seen that in action often before, and it can be quite fun.


But an FFA-DM game mode in RO? i don't really see how that would be enjoyable to play..

Any good DM game must excell at individual twitch skill and mobillity, the very best of thease games are Arena-Shooters, the UT's, Warsow and Quake's amongst others, and their core game and map designs are allmost a polar opposite of what RO is all about.

The only reason it works acceptably in the CoD series is because thouse games aren't terribly realistic to begin with, their movement system and gunplay, well.. it's clouser to an arena shooter than it is a simulator, players still have very unrestricted mobillity and aim, and the map design of the recent games are also clouser to what an FFA game needs, the mechanics are just unrealistic enough to let it work, even though, CoD FFA is by no means as fun as it is in a propper Arena shooter.

But with RO's game mechanics, map design and movement system? I really cannot imagine this playing out in a fun way, all i can imagine is that it would quickly degenerate into players camping all over the map, and the only killing that will happen is when someone gets bored, tries to relocate and dies as a result.

It would be terrible and dull..


TDM: Yes, that can work!

DM: No, just no.
 
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Well, you've run into some of the "hardcore" RO fans here, so they stand about 300 miles east of whatever line :)

As for the "gateway drug": funnily enough, it is an expression we've used internally in thinking about this. Sure, a mad free-for-all, TDM game-mode is hardly "hardcore realism", but it CAN be fun. Do we want RO to then drop all the "more complex" gametypes? Absolutely not - we want to draw people down the slippery slope towards the RO style of gameplay. But to do that, you have to get them to buy the game in the first place...

You don't need to do much to draw the CoD community, but I can tell you this. If the game has no weapon balance, it won't be taking anyone from any game. This hilarious little niche group that worships sim shooters that has entrenched itself here represents nothing.

I love some of the realism, but I don't give a flying **** if the k98 bolt action takes .2 seconds longer than it should. Overpowered classes and weapons are the bane of any game design, realistic or not.

As for the OP wahoo, the entire community that is growing in excitement for RO2 isn't represented by this forum, most of the RO2 fans don't even bother registering here because it's a small group of like minded sim nuts who flame everything and everyone.
 
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Sometimes I think that half the people posting on these forums have never played Red Orchestra. Play a few complete matches and it should be obvious why FFA would never fit in or even be able to be implemented well.
As for the weapons balance thing, as far as I can remember TWI has always gone for having the weapons true to their real life counterparts. This isn't a game that was built from the ground up to make sure everybody has an equal chance in every single scenario to kill each other. Just because some people aren't going to like the RO series doesn't mean we should have to twist and bend it to meet everybody's needs. If we do it's only going to end up some mangled, deformed monster that nobody is going to love.
 
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Please just try and play the game and then continue commenting, and you'll notice why we say we don't need weapons that are mirrored of each other. The game is balanced. You do not wish to believe it but it simply is without artificial weapon balancing.

Remember there is a reason why the army used different weaponry back then because they were needed for different tasks. And through those different tasks comes the balance, through the needs for certain classes to do certain things comes the balance.

Unlike in other games in these forums or in game I've never experienced anyone complaining that a weapon wasn't balanced or whatever. As whatever issues occur due to unbalanced weaponry can not happen in Red Orchestra due to class restrictions.
 
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RO1 has a few custom TDM and FFA maps.
One of the TDM maps is a port from an old MOH:AA map.
Most of the maps are whimsical fun maps.

It would seem to me that if there is enough interest in FFA then maps will be made. Unfortunately, since EA/IW/CoD and DICE no longer support mappers, mappers are a dieing breed. Lots of talent has not being cultivated and/or has dried up. A loss to all gamers. Shame on them. Kudos to TW.




@Knighted, I warned you about that "balance" thing. Remember? :cool: :p
I'm not a sim nut per se and took offense at your generalizations of forum members. It is only my opinion, but I think you would do well to at least play RO long enough to get a true feel for the game (and 24/7 Danzig does not count) before you go insulting people about their knowledge and enjoyment of the game. Many of us have not been anything other than cordial.


To avoid using the overused verbage of 'realism', lets try a comparative approach with regard to weapon "balance". As compared to their actual counterparts, the weapons characteristics in the game are comparitively the same. The terminal ballistics of (say) the ppsh vs Kar in the game are (for the most part) comparatively the same as their real life models. ie, the differences in their respective terminal ballistics remain the same (actual vs game).


Your suggestion that RO (or RO2) needs to tweak the comparative terminal velocity characteristics of the weapons to make the game 'balanced' (and therefore 'fun') is just is not valid. Unlike the COD/BFBC2 series, each of the weapons in RO1 has strongpoints and weakpoints. In other words, when used as they were intended, one will virtually always trump the other in a given situation. As they should. This is what you seem unable to grasp.

For instance, I have no problem standing fully exposed and upright in RO with a Mosin to return the fire of an MP-40 shooting at me from 100meters away for a couple of reasons. The primary reason is that the MP-40 at 100meters isn't going to be very accurate. And while he's spraying at me and trying to control his automatic weapon, one well placed shot from the Mosin is going to put him down. Secondly, if he does hit me, the terminal velocity of that weapon at that range is not likely to put me down (unless its a lucky shot to the head/neck area). Whereas as one shot to the upper torson with the Mosin will do him in.

Were the opponent firing an STG, guess what? I'd be diving for and shooting from cover!

Were I to run into a ppsh in a room while I was carrying a KAR, I'd expect to die more times than not. It would appear, however, that you are advocating that the bolt action in that situation should have the same if not equal chance of surviving. Ain't gonna happen.



On a side note:
If after pumping three rounds from an M16 into enemy sniper, I get shot from across the map by his pistol one more time, I'll...I'll.....I'll just not play BFBC2 anymore :p.... BFBC2 is an excellent example of 'balanced' weaponry, imo. To that I say, "No thanks."
 
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This hilarious little niche group that worships sim shooters that has entrenched itself here represents nothing...

...the entire community that is growing in excitement for RO2 isn't represented by this forum, most of the RO2 fans don't even bother registering here because it's a small group of like minded sim nuts who flame everything and everyone.

Spoken like someone who truly has no idea about this game's community.

Well done, my friend.

The people here on this forum may not be the entire picture, but for the longest time it was the ONLY place you could go that even showed interest in the mod or Ostfront. Many of the people here helped shape the development of the game, and continue to do so.

But sure, now that RO gets some publicity the main forums are just a tiny niche group of foolish sim nuts. :rolleyes:
 
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@Knighted

Buddy have you ever tried playing RO and its DH mod?
I think if you did,you will find your comments and opininons are not in the right order bro....
I just started playing this game 3 months a go and I'm already playing on the lvl with the big boys,the veterans,I did took me some time to get the meaning of the game and its handling,but it also lead me to conclusion that this game dont belong in FFA settings,just wont work.

You think we are lying to you,just try and play RO its only $4.99 on steam,once you play it,you will see what we are trying to tell you and wahoo in this tread does make sence.

As far as goes for the niche of players here bro,these people are more important then any other out there,this people actually are gamer freaks that if they see something estetic wrong,visual wrong or some bug in game,they will come here and spit it out,devs actually appreciate that cause they want their game to be the hit song of the year...
 
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