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Dear Tripwire Team. Realism/Sellout?

Cordite

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2006
520
23
0
UK
TW will attract more players by simply making a better product that isn't a console port that pc gamers have come to expect nowadays.

Relaxed realism is probably just to ease the learning curve that comes w/ playing this game...too many people try it out and don't know what the hell is going on and they keep dying so they get frustrated and go back to what they know how to play. Just showing new players what's going on in the game and giving them their bearings isn't going to ruin it for the veteran players who are constantly worried about TW selling out to make more money.
 
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Pairaz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 12, 2010
15
24
0
Hi all.

I'm a veteran pc player, i have played a lot of FPS, in my opinion the realism at 100% it's not necessary, i also think that it's not necesarry "Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 part 2 with better graphic".

Everybody have seen the features and the gameplay videos.

1-It's obvious that it's not COD or Battlefield Bad Company 2. It's pretty clear that this games is more hardcore.

2-It' obvious that it's not ONLY Red Ochestra Ostfront 41-45 with better graphic, we have a lot of nice features... and yes, you can run faster and there are other things that make the games more user firendly.

This is bad?

I don't think.
In my opinion tripwire try to make a deep game, with a lot of cool features that COD o Battlefiled can't have, but a game must be also funny to play... the orginal red orchestra it' a very brutal hardcore experience, great game, but i prefer how tripwire is working with heroes of stalinggrad.
Because Heroes of staligrad seems a deep game, more than COD or Battlefield, but also userfriendly, for me it's a better option.. a balance between realism and user firendly.

Of course... if youn don't like it, can happens, there is also Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 and ARMA.
For my needs looks perfect, because i don'ty like Cod, Battlefiled it's funny sometimes but with no deep, ARMA and Ostfront 41-45 are too brutal.
This game maybe can be perfect for me.
 

hockeywarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,229
1,982
0
The RO Elitist's piano bar
www.youtube.com
Hi all.

I'm a veteran pc player, i have played a lot of FPS, in my opinion the realism at 100% it's not necessary, i also think that it's not necesarry "Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 part 2 with better graphic".

Everybody have seen the features and the gameplay videos.

1-It's obvious that it's not COD or Battlefield Bad Company 2. It's pretty clear that this games is more hardcore.

2-It' obvious that it's not ONLY Red Ochestra Ostfront 41-45 with better graphic, we have a lot of nice features... and yes, you can run faster and there are other things that make the games more user firendly.

This is bad?

I don't think.
In my opinion tripwire try to make a deep game, with a lot of cool features that COD o Battlefiled can't have, but a game must be also funny to play... the orginal red orchestra it' a very brutal hardcore experience, great game, but i prefer how tripwire is working with heroes of stalinggrad.
Because Heroes of staligrad seems a deep game, more than COD or Battlefield, but also userfriendly, for me it's a better option.. a balance between realism and user firendly.

Of course... if youn don't like it, can happens, there is also Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 and ARMA.
For my needs looks perfect, because i don'ty like Cod, Battlefiled it's funny sometimes but with no deep, ARMA and Ostfront 41-45 are too brutal.
This game maybe can be perfect for me.
Welcome to the forums! Great first post, btw.
 

a-pedestrian

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2010
52
14
0
Difference between normal mode and relaxed realism will affect on HUD only, nothing more.

btw: why people think that realism is so bad for games?

because it gets rid of their Rambo play style

but your comment about the HUD. i think Operation flashpoint had that. where the easy mode had everything and the hardcore mode had no hud elements it worked pretty well
 

EvilAmericanMan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 27, 2005
1,331
168
0
28
Palm Coast, FL
Hi all.

I'm a veteran pc player, i have played a lot of FPS, in my opinion the realism at 100% it's not necessary, i also think that it's not necesarry "Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 part 2 with better graphic".

Everybody have seen the features and the gameplay videos.

1-It's obvious that it's not COD or Battlefield Bad Company 2. It's pretty clear that this games is more hardcore.

2-It' obvious that it's not ONLY Red Ochestra Ostfront 41-45 with better graphic, we have a lot of nice features... and yes, you can run faster and there are other things that make the games more user firendly.

This is bad?

I don't think.
In my opinion tripwire try to make a deep game, with a lot of cool features that COD o Battlefiled can't have, but a game must be also funny to play... the orginal red orchestra it' a very brutal hardcore experience, great game, but i prefer how tripwire is working with heroes of stalinggrad.
Because Heroes of staligrad seems a deep game, more than COD or Battlefield, but also userfriendly, for me it's a better option.. a balance between realism and user firendly.

Of course... if youn don't like it, can happens, there is also Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45 and ARMA.
For my needs looks perfect, because i don'ty like Cod, Battlefiled it's funny sometimes but with no deep, ARMA and Ostfront 41-45 are too brutal.
This game maybe can be perfect for me.

I like this. Finally someone registers an account and their first post isn't "IS TRIPWIRE AWARE THAT THIS GAME LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE COD" but rather realizing the game for what it is. Especially important given that nobody has played the game yet and won't for a while.
 

Flogger23m

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2009
3,441
538
0
I agree, but not everyone sees it like that...

Anyway, thats how it is, however people want it to call it.
Extra HUD junk does indeed make a game less tactical or realistic.


I can use GRAW (PC) as an example. If you have not played the game, it features red triangles that are placed on top of an enemy.

If you look in the direction of an enemy, these diamonds will appear essentially giving out the location of the enemy. Often times have peaked out a corner and did not notice there was an enemy soldier's head sticking out from behind concealment... but this diamond pops up and I automatically see that he is there.

How does this change gameplay? It means I play less carefully. I do not take as much time observing my environment.

I played a mod which removes this feature. Guess what? I play slower and more tactically. I double check far more often.


The same thing applies to any game.

Take RO for example. If you are clearing a building, and you hear some foot steps... you have to play carefully to determine if they are friendly or not.

Throw on floating name tags, a mini map which tells you that he is a friendly and whatnot, you will not play as tactically.

So yes, HUD features can drastically change the gameplay.

Realistic guns is only part of the package in a tactical or realistic shooter.


But wait, you want to know where your buddy is? Learn to play. Get on voice coms, or stay together as a group and quit running around like headless chickens through the map.

That is how you play a tactical or realism based game.



And yes, the whole "ArmA is not realistic because I can't play it lolz" thing is getting very old. It has its flaws, but it does well in some areas.
 
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Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
0
Extra HUD junk does indeed make a game less tactical or realistic.


I can use GRAW (PC) as an example. If you have not played the game, it features red triangles that are placed on top of an enemy.

If you look in the direction of an enemy, these diamonds will appear essentially giving out the location of the enemy. Often times have peaked out a corner and did not notice there was an enemy soldier's head sticking out from behind concealment... but this diamond pops up and I automatically see that he is there.

How does this change gameplay? It means I play less carefully. I do not take as much time observing my environment.

I played a mod which removes this feature. Guess what? I play slower and more tactically. I double check far more often.


The same thing applies to any game.

Take RO for example. If you are clearing a building, and you hear some foot steps... you have to play carefully to determine if they are friendly or not.

Throw on floating name tags, a mini map which tells you that he is a friendly and whatnot, you will not play as tactically.

So yes, HUD features can drastically change the gameplay.

Realistic guns is only part of the package in a tactical or realistic shooter.


But wait, you want to know where your buddy is? Learn to play. Get on voice coms, or stay together as a group and quit running around like headless chickens through the map.

That is how you play a tactical or realism based game.



And yes, the whole "ArmA is not realistic because I can't play it lolz" thing is getting very old. It has its flaws, but it does well in some areas.


Guess what? Is OPTIONAL, just in case you forgot.

And guess what else... Oh yes, your beloved ArmA has a god damned crosshair in its noob friendly mode, and doesn't make it any less crap to play.

Do you go to their forums to say how they are selling out to the CoD fanbase for having a crosshair? Or maybe you only understand the word optional, for every game except for RO?
 
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Xendance

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,484
572
0
30
Elitist Prick Club RS Branch
Extra HUD junk does indeed make a game less tactical or realistic.


I can use GRAW (PC) as an example. If you have not played the game, it features red triangles that are placed on top of an enemy.

If you look in the direction of an enemy, these diamonds will appear essentially giving out the location of the enemy. Often times have peaked out a corner and did not notice there was an enemy soldier's head sticking out from behind concealment... but this diamond pops up and I automatically see that he is there.

How does this change gameplay? It means I play less carefully. I do not take as much time observing my environment.

I played a mod which removes this feature. Guess what? I play slower and more tactically. I double check far more often.


The same thing applies to any game.

Take RO for example. If you are clearing a building, and you hear some foot steps... you have to play carefully to determine if they are friendly or not.

Throw on floating name tags, a mini map which tells you that he is a friendly and whatnot, you will not play as tactically.

So yes, HUD features can drastically change the gameplay.

Realistic guns is only part of the package in a tactical or realistic shooter.


But wait, you want to know where your buddy is? Learn to play. Get on voice coms, or stay together as a group and quit running around like headless chickens through the map.

That is how you play a tactical or realism based game.



And yes, the whole "ArmA is not realistic because I can't play it lolz" thing is getting very old. It has its flaws, but it does well in some areas.
The key part in your post is "So yes, HUD features can drastically change the gameplay", note that the word "can" doesn't imply that HUD features will drastically change the gameplay.
 

Flogger23m

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2009
3,441
538
0
Guess what? Is OPTIONAL, just in case you forgot.
Once again you are unable to understand the point.

Dwin and you made a comment about games in general: more HUD features does not decrease realism.

I was responding to that.

What options RO2 will feature has nothing to do with my post.

Guess what? Is OPTIONAL, just in case you
And guess what else... Oh yes, your beloved ArmA has a god damned crosshair in its noob friendly mode, and doesn't make it any less crap to play.
ArmA is not my "beloved" game. And yes, the third person and cross hair mode do make the game less realistic and tactical... for instance, you can clearly see over a wall when you can not in first person.

As for the cross hairs, all you have to do is point and shoot. This enables the player to acquire targets, aim and shoot quicker more accurately than if cross hairs where removed.

So yes, these features in ArmA do change the gameplay up.

Why anyone would enable them in a game like that is beyond me. In the next version of the game, I would hope they are removed completely.

Do you go to their forums to say how they are selling out to the CoD fanbase for having a crosshair? Or maybe you only understand the word optional, for every game except for RO?
Typical, the crosshair argument.

You are the one who brought up crosshairs, not me. While floating cross hairs are not realistic, it does not change gameplay that much. Mini maps, "RWRs" that distinguish friendly soldiers from enemy soldiers, indicators that tell you where the enemies are shooting from do change the gameplay a lot.

And guess what? RO2 will feature some of these.


Will the gameplay be different from relaxed realism and the proper mode? Yes, they will. Hey, its probably why they made both modes in the first place! :rolleyes:
The key part in your post is "So yes, HUD features can drastically change the gameplay", note that the word "can" doesn't imply that HUD features will drastically change the gameplay.

Then change that to will. ;)

HUD features and what information is force fed to the players does change the gameplay a lot. It is one big aspect of a tactical game. Probably just as big as realistic guns.

And yes, I am talking about tactical/realistic games in general and not just RO2.

If I am to get RO2, I would not play with those options anyways assuming the server filter works good.
 
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Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
0
Once again you are unable to understand the point.

Dwin and you made a comment about games in general: more HUD features does not decrease realism.

I was responding to that.
Ok, your tone sounded more like you were angry that the option even existed, or you were too worried about me not giving a damn what realism setting I'll be playing on.

But I'm gonna respond to this in a more constructive way then:


HUD options may affect realism, and may not, but doesn't mean is the same. (I was agreeing with HUD options =/= less realism)

HUD element may decrease realism, but may also increase realism too.

You talk about working to be with you squad... ok, why do I have to work just to get an information that I would naturally have in real life by the simple action of staying awake?

I'm being forced to look at the world through a monitor, and HUD elements are there to simulate a wider awareness that I'd have in RL.


Mini maps, "RWRs" that distinguish friendly soldiers from enemy soldiers, indicators that tell you where the enemies are shooting from do change the gameplay a lot.

And guess what? RO2 will feature some of these.
Ramm stated that the mini map will never indicate the position of an enemy.

By the way TWI is making the system, it seems that they will never give you access to any information that you shouldn't have in real life. Regardless of the setting.

Therefore, if the HUD elements are just to give you the awareness that you would have in reality, for me, that is more realistic.

Forcing someone to work on what should be given by denying him that information, is what I find unrealistic. May be rewarding when you are committed to put so much effort into work all that information out, may be harder... but "realistic" is not the word.
 
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Flogger23m

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2009
3,441
538
0
Ramm stated that the mini map will never indicate the position of an enemy.
Three things:

1) I am still talking about games in general. Notice how I said some.

2) Since you decided to talk more about mini maps:

If you see a silhouette standing in a dark corner to your right and he shows up on your mini map, you know he is friendly.

Now ask yourself this: You see a silhouette standing in a dark corner to your right. He does not show up on your mini map. Well, your mini map just told you he isn't friendly... I wonder what team he is on. ;)

Same concept with a hearing a noise on the other side of a wall.

Now, if the mini map only displays friendlies that are in bright light and in your line of sight, then it just is a worthless feature as your visuals will let you know he is friendly. No need for a mini map, as it does not give you any assistance in determining where your friendlies are.

By the way TWI is making the system, it seems that they will never give you access to any information that you shouldn't have in real life. Regardless of the setting.
Such as the whole zoom in as you hold your breath thing (giving you more/clearer visual info), right?;) Just because I hold my breath does not mean it is easier to see/visualize a target in the distance.

The zoom in while breathing thing does give you some extra visual information than what you should get.


To make it more clear:
I am not arguing for or against iron sight zoom... just the part where you zoom in even more when you hold your breath. Holding breath while aiming should not give you any clearer visual info over using your iron sights with normal breathing.
 
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Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
0
To make it more clear:
I am not arguing for or against iron sight zoom... just the part where you zoom in even more when you hold your breath. Holding breath while aiming should not give you any clearer visual info over using your iron sights with normal breathing.
Please NOT this one again.

Find yourself the threads where this has been explained a thousand times, because I refuse to write another explanation.
 

hockeywarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,229
1,982
0
The RO Elitist's piano bar
www.youtube.com
Honestly, as a follower of this game's development for the last year I actually think that RO2 will be MORE realistic than RO1 ever was. I also think it will be more accessible. People automatically assume that accessibility always means less realistic, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

The things that they're doing to make RO2 more accessible don't make it less realistic. They simply smooth out the game's playing experience, such as being able interrupt animations, more smooth movement, a first person cover system that mirrors the kinds of easy-to-do actions you could do in real life, making it easier to mount MG's on surfaces, being able to mount over obstacles ... the list goes on and on. From what I've heard, the only difference between relaxed realism and "hardcore" modes is the lack of the situational awareness tool (what looks like a radar but ISNT) and maybe the peripheral vision indicators. Just read the fact thread.

All of the core things that made RO1 "realistic" are still there -- free aim, no cross hair, momentum to movement, a realistic damage system (which is much more detailed in RO2 from what they say), realistic ballistics, 3D scopes (much better than before), not knowing how much ammo is in the clip (and getting to ability to check your mag!), etc etc etc ... the list could go on. Hell even by default death messages are no longer instant in RO2. Again, if anything, RO2 looks like its trying to be a more realistic game while avoiding the many unnecessary frustrations that made RO1 too difficult in the wrong ways and less user friendly than it had to be.

So stop suggesting that RO2 will somehow be less realistic than RO1 when there just aren't facts to support this accusation. Even if there are occasional features you don't agree with, it's clear that the vast majority of their new design choices actually make the game much more realistic.
 
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DraKon2k

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
4,047
2,802
0
Vienna, Austria
I just played 2h of OST, first hour with normal (full) HUD and the 2nd hour with hour completely turned off. Difference = zero. I don't see the point, most of the hardcore people arguing against anything that makes this game more accessable to new players could simply be quiet and play hardcore realism mode which will feature pretty much anything they like anyhow.
 

Flogger23m

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2009
3,441
538
0
Please NOT this one again.

Find yourself the threads where this has been explained a thousand times, because I refuse to write another explanation.
The point went over your head. :(

I said that is not what I was talking about.
 

Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
0
The point went over your head. :(

I said that is not what I was talking about.
You said the zoom gives you extra information that you shouldn't have, and that is just not true. If the point was something else, make it more clear, because this is what I can get from your post.