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Not One Step Back!

fOgGy - please show me your sources for this info.

I could comment about that while it is not directly mentioned anywhere, about every 2nd book or article I end up reading about eastern front mentions that Soviets had supply problems in 1941 - 1942.

So maybe it is not directly mentioned, but makes sense to me that if there are supply problems - there is also more or less (funny) consenquences.

Britain also had a reputation for shooting their own men if they had acted in cowardice but that was mainly in WW1.

Well I don't remember the flight group's name but one USAF fighter group was known as "American Luftwaffe" due the fact they caused more friendly casualtes in Ardennes than enemy casualties.
 
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I didn't say that. I have no idea what you do or don't know about WWII history. I was merely offering a little insight into why you got the response you did. Getting defensive about it won't help matters any, by the way.



No, it wouldn't. The way to handle the Russian numerical superiority aspect is simply to give them more reinforcements. The way you balance something like that is through other factors such as better equipment (IE: STGs vs. Mosin Nagants), positional advantages (IE: Germans are on the defensive and hold the high ground), other map advantages (IE: the map time is designed to work in favor of the Germans -- they only have to hold off the enemy for X number of minutes); give them armor or artillery support. There's lots of ways to improve balance that don't require what would essentially be an invitation to teamkilling.


As a practical matter, how would you design the mutator to be able to tell when a TK is legit and when it isn't? What data could the game track to determine when someone should get -2 for a TK vs. +2 for "executing a coward"? What if someone's running backwards but are merely doubling back to loop around on the enemy and get them in a crossfire? And huld server admins handle this sort of thing? Most admins kick or ban when they see someone intentionally TK. How would the admin be able to make a call as to when a shot is a TK vs. an "execution"?

I think your idea might work as sort of a goofy fun mutator like, say, an all panzerfaust map. But (a) it's not realistic and isn't the way to approach other realistic issues (like Russian numerical superiority), and (b) would be a pain in the ass to code. But hey, if you want to make the mutator, by all means, go for it. I'd be interested to see how it played, although I think it'd probably just be a novelty.

Good point. The system I would suggest would give Russians points for killing soldiers moving away from the German cap zones (teamkills only valid while teammate is retreating). It would be so funny seeing the Russians attack Germans in desperation, in the fear of being TKed for cowardice. :D
They can't stay in one spot forever, and they can only move forward. It would be a stampede. :D
 
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Well I don't remember the flight group's name but one USAF fighter group was known as "American Luftwaffe" due the fact they caused more friendly casualtes in Ardennes than enemy casualties.

They didn't know who was down there since the lines were in the forest, so when mass groups of men came out they would shoot at them.

PS: There was no air force at the time, it was the Army Air Corps
 
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So you're telling me that you don't have fun when you play this game?

Having fun playing this game is such an insult to the actual pain and suffer those fallen soldiers have endured. It's no fun, and no laughing matter. :D

i am having fun with this game because it feels realistic.
it doesnt need 'humour', because to me it would ruin the experience and then it would be no fun, and that would be insulting to what really happened during the war.

just forget it, its not going to happen.
 
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In the Battle of Stalingrad weren't half of the Soviet troops charging through enemy lines had nothing but a handful of bullets ? Only high ranking officers would get armaments. The unarmed recruits would have to scatter weapons from dead comrades. Why not have something like this in RO: O ? but increase the player tickets on the Russian side since they had large numbers of bodies to throw at the Germans.


Go. Read.


Less Enemy at the Gates, more reading.
 
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NKVD blocking detachments a la 'Enema at the Gates' did not happen. At Stalingrad some retreating soldiers were shot by NKVD a distance from the lines - most were imprisoned or sent back to the lines.

Yes. As said, it happend that soldiers have been exectued in the field. But it was never used as "tactic" or something like that.

And another fact, I find strange, that makes even smile. If the red army was that bad equiped with amunition and weapons, that not every soldier could have a rifle, they still have enough time and material to waste amunition on "own" soldiers ?


Zhukov, has been known for his hard line, even against own soldiers. So far I have read, he was known for shoting a german soldier, during an inquiry and own soldiers for cowardize. If that is true, I can not tell, but when I think about shukovs, explosive temper, at least shoting a prisoned german, could be very possible.

And no doubts here. The Red army, was and russian army today IS a hard place, from their training and combat. The moral standarts are different also are the people and soldiers. Wars from Russia (soviet union in past) have been fought "usualy" harder and more cruel between the 2 sides. From a "western" view point. It can happen, that single actions during combat and training are, more or lessfaster overlooked. That is true. And I know this from russian friends, which live here cause they DO NOT want to do military service in their own country, not with people there knowing about their german roots. Anyway. Its also something that happens in other armies as well. Doesnt mean though, that is the "rule". But enough pointing with the finger to Red army/russian military ...

German Wehrmacht soldiers, wondered about the incredible russian discipline, endurance and coldness in relation to their defence. It was usual for the germans, that enemies leaved, abadoned or just handled over cities to them, to save the worthwhile objects, like architecture and also civilans. Paris was give to germans near almost without any shot. In the Soviet Union, they got surprized to have here a enemy, that would NOT leave a city and the military, that would not hesitate, to destroy any building or worthwhile object, to make a defence. Hard fightings like the Siege of Leningrad or the without any example urban combat in stalingrad make that clear to me. The more the germans conquered their way in to the east, the harder the defence and fighting was for them. Their have been deserters, and many of them might have been killed by the own officers. But as already mentioned, it is a "unwritten" rule in many armies to handle it that way during combat ... not just in the Red Army ...
 
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Look, I don't mean to be rude here, but you really cannot base your knowledge of WWII on a video game that has never made ANY claims to be realistic OR historically accurate. If you're going to base your knowledge on a video game, at least make it one that has been intensely researched and is designed to reproduce the HISTORIC experience, rather than the CINEMATIC experience.

Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc. are basically just trying to recreate the "cool" scenes from various WWII movies released in the past 10 years or so. That's it. They're not a reliable source of historical information.

To save you the frustration, I'd advise not citing to other video games as a source, unless they are, as I said, intensely researched and historically minded. Even then, be prepared to be picked apart by the history buffs here. I say this as friendly advice, not to give you crap. You are seriously inviting folks to insult you when your sources of historical information are the entertainment industry. Others will be a LOT more blunt and a LOT less kind than I've been, and you'll only end up feeling angry, frustrated, or defensive.
 
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Look, I don't mean to be rude here, but you really cannot base your knowledge of WWII on a video game that has never made ANY claims to be realistic OR historically accurate. If you're going to base your knowledge on a video game, at least make it one that has been intensely researched and is designed to reproduce the HISTORIC experience, rather than the CINEMATIC experience.

Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc. are basically just trying to recreate the "cool" scenes from various WWII movies released in the past 10 years or so. That's it. They're not a reliable source of historical information.

To save you the frustration, I'd advise not citing to other video games as a source, unless they are, as I said, intensely researched and historically minded. Even then, be prepared to be picked apart by the history buffs here. I say this as friendly advice, not to give you crap. You are seriously inviting folks to insult you when your sources of historical information are the entertainment industry. Others will be a LOT more blunt and a LOT less kind than I've been, and you'll only end up feeling angry, frustrated, or defensive.

Well actually I get my sources from other people in other forums who claim they know alot about WW2.
 
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Look, I don't mean to be rude here, but you really cannot base your knowledge of WWII on a video game that has never made ANY claims to be realistic OR historically accurate. If you're going to base your knowledge on a video game, at least make it one that has been intensely researched and is designed to reproduce the HISTORIC experience, rather than the CINEMATIC experience.

Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc. are basically just trying to recreate the "cool" scenes from various WWII movies released in the past 10 years or so. That's it. They're not a reliable source of historical information.

To save you the frustration, I'd advise not citing to other video games as a source, unless they are, as I said, intensely researched and historically minded. Even then, be prepared to be picked apart by the history buffs here. I say this as friendly advice, not to give you crap. You are seriously inviting folks to insult you when your sources of historical information are the entertainment industry. Others will be a LOT more blunt and a LOT less kind than I've been, and you'll only end up feeling angry, frustrated, or defensive.

but CoD IS historicaly accurate, realistic and always true ... cant you see the light :confused:
 
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