WWAUT - Heading Towards (an opt-in) Beta
- Thread starter Yoshiro
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This... is a lot... to take it all in... 
Arnold's voice "We want it now". So we can test it and give practical feedbacks instead of just number crunching and imagining in outdated world.
Arnold's voice "We want it now". So we can test it and give practical feedbacks instead of just number crunching and imagining in outdated world.
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So like... that's a lot of mag size for Commando. A 50-round SCAR? 75-round AK? I thought large mags were really going to be a SWAT thing. I'd buff that skill in some other way.
But I'm a Support main so I'll weigh in on that-
-I'm pretty opposed to mag size increases for Support. The SG500 and M4 are already pretty unpopular, and that would just make them less attractive choices. 3-shot double barrel is also weird and would throw off the whole fly-backwards-to-escape-danger method of large zed removal.
-Resupply pack is looking too good.
-Armor piercing shot doesn't sound too useful considering the passive (would it ever result in more kills?)
-Tight choke seems unhelpful for the shotguns except for the double barrel (and then only sometimes). With the damage dropoff, encouraging long-range shooting seems like a bad idea. An adjustable choke instead, maybe?
-I might be the only one, but I'll miss regeneration.
-I will also miss the extra grenade power.
Perhaps a skill that increases pellet count would be more interesting than a normal damage boost? It would also make the shotguns feel more reliable at range.
But I'm a Support main so I'll weigh in on that-
-I'm pretty opposed to mag size increases for Support. The SG500 and M4 are already pretty unpopular, and that would just make them less attractive choices. 3-shot double barrel is also weird and would throw off the whole fly-backwards-to-escape-danger method of large zed removal.
-Resupply pack is looking too good.
-Armor piercing shot doesn't sound too useful considering the passive (would it ever result in more kills?)
-Tight choke seems unhelpful for the shotguns except for the double barrel (and then only sometimes). With the damage dropoff, encouraging long-range shooting seems like a bad idea. An adjustable choke instead, maybe?
-I might be the only one, but I'll miss regeneration.
-I will also miss the extra grenade power.
Perhaps a skill that increases pellet count would be more interesting than a normal damage boost? It would also make the shotguns feel more reliable at range.
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Support: 50% more health or 30% more damage... I believe most people would get DMG. More weight is really nice and doors MAY be a nice change, but the damage boost is simply too much.
Firebug rework: Needs a way to light things on fire from a greater distance, DoT needs to be stronger, increasing the duration isn't going to cut it.
Medic rework: AKA "wtf are u smoking?!" - Still braindead 0 skill required with boring auto-aim and overpowered buffing now, either that or he is a weaker Sup/Com mix... .
Commando: 210% more damage for handgun, LOL!
It seems TWI needs to cut their caffeine:
"Well flashlight could last a bit longer..."
TWI: "Flashlight now lasts extra 1:30 min!"
"Fallback could use a small buff..."
TWI: "Okay, 150% more DMG!"
People are in love with the "WOW" factor of all these changes and not seeing clearly, most of them are so over the top that shows TWI is just shooting wildly trying to hit something.
20+ years of intense gaming here if it counts for something, and it all seems like random mess to me...
Firebug rework: Needs a way to light things on fire from a greater distance, DoT needs to be stronger, increasing the duration isn't going to cut it.
Medic rework: AKA "wtf are u smoking?!" - Still braindead 0 skill required with boring auto-aim and overpowered buffing now, either that or he is a weaker Sup/Com mix... .
Commando: 210% more damage for handgun, LOL!
It seems TWI needs to cut their caffeine:
"Well flashlight could last a bit longer..."
TWI: "Flashlight now lasts extra 1:30 min!"
"Fallback could use a small buff..."
TWI: "Okay, 150% more DMG!"
People are in love with the "WOW" factor of all these changes and not seeing clearly, most of them are so over the top that shows TWI is just shooting wildly trying to hit something.
20+ years of intense gaming here if it counts for something, and it all seems like random mess to me...
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With the zerker class, how about instead of buffing the skills no one picks you could slightly buff the skills that most players pick. This would really help poor zerk out.
The dreadnaught skill that increases hp still isn't enticing because there is no 20% movement bonus. That lack of movement speed will get you killed even with the extra hp.
Vampire is much too conditional and doesn't help you with big zeds or boss. It is not a skill I would ever pick.
The parry bonus does sound good and I do parry small zeds a fair bit but when you get swamped its better to attack your way out of it. That's why I prefer the resistance skill.
Massacre is competing with a skill that is always going to be picked more because of big zeds and half the time with trash you are using heavy swings to kill. If you pick this skill it cripples you against big zeds. The 30% damage bonus still isn't enough to kill gorefasts in one swing if you miss the head.
The level 25 Berserker rage sounds like it will be a real pain to chase down a big zed that has turned away from you, wasting valuable zed time when you could have been chopping away at its head.
I suggest buffing the skirmisher to have 125hp with all its other stats the same. (tried this out on a for a few weeks on a friend's server and it worked perfectly fine, it was not OP and it gave the zerk a fighting chance) Butcher could be buffed to have 25% increased attack speed with the damage bonus the same. Resistance is fine to leave as is. Smash and Berserker Rage leave the same as they are right now. This would really help the zerk out and stop players from feeling ridiculously frustrated when they die and wonder what you guys are thinking.
The dreadnaught skill that increases hp still isn't enticing because there is no 20% movement bonus. That lack of movement speed will get you killed even with the extra hp.
Vampire is much too conditional and doesn't help you with big zeds or boss. It is not a skill I would ever pick.
The parry bonus does sound good and I do parry small zeds a fair bit but when you get swamped its better to attack your way out of it. That's why I prefer the resistance skill.
Massacre is competing with a skill that is always going to be picked more because of big zeds and half the time with trash you are using heavy swings to kill. If you pick this skill it cripples you against big zeds. The 30% damage bonus still isn't enough to kill gorefasts in one swing if you miss the head.
The level 25 Berserker rage sounds like it will be a real pain to chase down a big zed that has turned away from you, wasting valuable zed time when you could have been chopping away at its head.
I suggest buffing the skirmisher to have 125hp with all its other stats the same. (tried this out on a for a few weeks on a friend's server and it worked perfectly fine, it was not OP and it gave the zerk a fighting chance) Butcher could be buffed to have 25% increased attack speed with the damage bonus the same. Resistance is fine to leave as is. Smash and Berserker Rage leave the same as they are right now. This would really help the zerk out and stop players from feeling ridiculously frustrated when they die and wonder what you guys are thinking.
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Medic will be even more less played, due to people begging for buffs. Its an endless cylce. People wanted free armor and medic was spamming his darts eveywhere. They remove it and add something even worse than this. Buffing. Endless buffing...
The perks gained a lot of improvements and buffs. But I hope the difficulty will increased in the same patch, or people will abandon normal and hard and join HoE, since it will be so easy after all this buffs.
THere are some nonsense buffs tbh. Zerker really didnt need any big changes. The 50% hp boost was a great combination with his zed time skill what gives you 25% hp back. Only the parry, zerker passives and the resistance skill had to be changed. Parry should have mitgated more damage, sonic and bloat res to passive, and the resistance keeped at 20% without the sonic and bloat res. Thats it really.
The support buff is great. People expect huge damage from shotguns. To balance it you should either choose between max ammo, ammo per mag and damage increasment.
Commando mag size is a joke now. He will have too much ammo and it destroys the immersion. 75 bullets in a single mag? A bit too much. Penetration would be better.
The ammo increase it still useless (it was already 20% tho). You already have about 700 bullets, combined with SCAR and AK-12. So not really necessary.
The perks gained a lot of improvements and buffs. But I hope the difficulty will increased in the same patch, or people will abandon normal and hard and join HoE, since it will be so easy after all this buffs.
THere are some nonsense buffs tbh. Zerker really didnt need any big changes. The 50% hp boost was a great combination with his zed time skill what gives you 25% hp back. Only the parry, zerker passives and the resistance skill had to be changed. Parry should have mitgated more damage, sonic and bloat res to passive, and the resistance keeped at 20% without the sonic and bloat res. Thats it really.
The support buff is great. People expect huge damage from shotguns. To balance it you should either choose between max ammo, ammo per mag and damage increasment.
Commando mag size is a joke now. He will have too much ammo and it destroys the immersion. 75 bullets in a single mag? A bit too much. Penetration would be better.
The ammo increase it still useless (it was already 20% tho). You already have about 700 bullets, combined with SCAR and AK-12. So not really necessary.
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Is there any, ANY way that the matchmaking service to stop? Or disable it? Or take it away? Or suppressed it for single player only?
No?
Okay...
No?
Okay...
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Why not just roll it out and tweak based on feedback like most things in EA?
Just curious.
I don't really understand the point of these opt-in BETAs considering the game isn't in a "fully released" state.
Any clarification is appreciated.
p.s. I'm looking forward to seeing how different the medic and support are to play with this changelog!
Just curious.
I don't really understand the point of these opt-in BETAs considering the game isn't in a "fully released" state.
Any clarification is appreciated.
p.s. I'm looking forward to seeing how different the medic and support are to play with this changelog!
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Nice overhaul! I'm digging the changes across the board, though I do feel some may be a bit much.
Some thoughts :
-Am I the only person that thinks Napalm is an extremely useless skill? Firebug mostly just sprays flame everywhere anyways. You can use 10 fuel to set a group of 10 zeds on fire. If I want a zed to catch fire I tap left mouse. No need to pray that another zed runs into him.
-Firebug needs the burning effect adjusted like others have said. Instead of burning for longer, just increase the DPS.
-Commando is looking good. The Fallback buff seems to trivialize the AR Varmint and the L8. Especially when you get dualies for peanuts.
-I think large mags should be saved for the SWAT perk to keep it unique.
-Medic is more interesting, but I'm not sure if random buffs is the way to go. I'll reserve judgement.
-Am I the only person that didn't think Support was bad? Either way I like the buffs.
Everything else looks fine. Can't wait.
Some thoughts :
-Am I the only person that thinks Napalm is an extremely useless skill? Firebug mostly just sprays flame everywhere anyways. You can use 10 fuel to set a group of 10 zeds on fire. If I want a zed to catch fire I tap left mouse. No need to pray that another zed runs into him.
-Firebug needs the burning effect adjusted like others have said. Instead of burning for longer, just increase the DPS.
-Commando is looking good. The Fallback buff seems to trivialize the AR Varmint and the L8. Especially when you get dualies for peanuts.
-I think large mags should be saved for the SWAT perk to keep it unique.
-Medic is more interesting, but I'm not sure if random buffs is the way to go. I'll reserve judgement.
-Am I the only person that didn't think Support was bad? Either way I like the buffs.
Everything else looks fine. Can't wait.
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Am I right in assuming medics can middle mouse click to apply buffs to themselves the same way they could middle mouse click to give themselves armor?
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I think the important part to figure out is whether burning over time can trigger fire panic (and do so effectively). If we're going to have gorefast and slashers just flail away at your team for 10s while the fire makes them harder to hit then I'd rather not attack them at all.DoctorDragon;n2264853 said:
Range is a pretty good stat for microwave gun but I have absolutely no idea where we are heading with this weapon. Nethertheless it's weird that we get our most important microwave gun skills both at level 5 while level 10 and 15 skills don't affect it at all. Doesn't look like there will be much of a skill choice left if you end up buying one.
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These support changes seem way over the top, which is perfect for an opt in beta. After we've had our fun with it, though, I'm sure some of this is going to have to be rolled back.
I love how you're doing no damage reduction on penetration on a gunslinger skill, embracing the gameplay of the very fun bug that gunslinger had when it was first added.
The mags' capacities getting bigger without changing the depicted mag doesn't bother me much, though changing the depicted mag would be great.
For commando's highest new capacities, they're still only equal to or less than the biggest drum on the market for them, so there's nothing unfeasible about the number of rounds, it just doesn't match the depicted original mag.
A triple shot double barrel, on the other hand, sounds fundamentally janky.
I love how you're doing no damage reduction on penetration on a gunslinger skill, embracing the gameplay of the very fun bug that gunslinger had when it was first added.
The mags' capacities getting bigger without changing the depicted mag doesn't bother me much, though changing the depicted mag would be great.
For commando's highest new capacities, they're still only equal to or less than the biggest drum on the market for them, so there's nothing unfeasible about the number of rounds, it just doesn't match the depicted original mag.
A triple shot double barrel, on the other hand, sounds fundamentally janky.
Nondetachable tubular magazines are magazines, boomstick is the only magless support weapon in kf2.Lorkenpeist;n2264874 said:
That's gone, since bullseye, test for yourself with solo ~(console) enablecheats nospread. It's just a matter of getting pellets on target now, and tight choke will be a huge help with that, effectively doubling the range for getting enough pellets on a target, at the cost of ease of use when you don't need all the pellets on target.RoastinGhost;n2264892 said:
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Ah yes, good point. While we're suggesting changing the appearance of commando mags when you take the large mag skills, support should also get mag tubes that extend well beyond the length of the barrel, and the boomstick should get a third barrel!Azukki;n2264931 said:
Seriously though, I think the large mags skill is just not a good fit for support. The shotguns are all about keeping the mag topped off between shots, unless you really need to spam a few fast. Spamming 12 shots before reloading (or 11 if you don't want that extra-long reload) is just ridiculous. Support is about saving your shots until they really count, not spamming them everywhere. That's what Commando is for.
Speaking of Commando... I feel like Fallback/Backup (whatever the name is these days) is a kind of odd skill for Commando. You have plenty of ammo and I have never found myself needing to conserve by using knife/pistol. The reason people aren't picking it is not that it doesn't do enough damage, it's that we just literally don't need it, ever.
Now to bring my points together... I know I ranted about Large Mags for Support earlier and I'm doing it again, but until now I didn't have a good idea what would replace it. And now I just realized. Support ammo is expensive. If you want to be able to afford better shotguns, you need to hold your fire until it really matters, when you can get several zeds at once, or if that charging gorefast really needs to die now. I find myself knifing the clots and 9mming the bloats to conserve ammo because it's necessary. So... Give the Backup/Fallback skill to Support! It really doesn't need Large Mags (boomstick weirdness aside), and it would be a perfect fit for how I (and I suspect many other players) already play Support by necessity. And besides, it's not like Support doesn't already share half its skills with Commando...
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Well, if nothing else, the fact that they told us about the specs for this more likely than not very work in progress balance patch means that, hopefully just like when they did a similar thing before the Demo rework, this list of changes will be tweaked in a favorable direction in the next WWAUT due to the feedback this thread is getting.
Throwing my two cents here:
Skirmisher is still stronger than Dreadnought in terms of both survivability (not getting hit and recovering from damage when hit > being able to take more hits) and general utility (good positioning via high movement speed > tanking a few more hits).
Eat Lead is still a bad skill. (+25% damage and halved recoil is just too powerful for EL to compete with)
Support sounds ridiculous. (and not in a good way)
Medic sounds even more boring to play as and with. (armor botting getting replaced with buff botting is arguably worse than what we have now)
Throwing my two cents on what to do about those here:
I would give Dreadnought half of Skirmisher's movement speed buffs and/or half of Skirmisher's health regen instead of an additional 25% extra max health.
I would buff Eat Lead by taking the recoil reduction from Hollow Point Rounds and adding that to Eat Lead.
Extra magazine capacity on Support isn't a very good idea. That sounds like way too much extra max ammo (especially with the ability to carry three shotguns or AA12 and M4 becoming a given rather than an optional skill choice). Armor Piercing Shot is useless because of Support's passive penetration bonus (getting enough zeds in a line (or even a rough cluster) to not be able to shoot through them all already essentially never happens, especially on higher difficulties). Penetrator is similarly worthless and should instead be replaced by a re-worked version of Safeguard (20% general damage resistance for the whole team, maybe?).
I don't really have good feedback on the Medic ideas, honestly. At the very least I feel like making the buffs only stack once but significantly increasing duration (to, say, 20 or 30 seconds?) to discourage dart spam buff botting is in order.
Throwing my two cents here:
Skirmisher is still stronger than Dreadnought in terms of both survivability (not getting hit and recovering from damage when hit > being able to take more hits) and general utility (good positioning via high movement speed > tanking a few more hits).
Eat Lead is still a bad skill. (+25% damage and halved recoil is just too powerful for EL to compete with)
Support sounds ridiculous. (and not in a good way)
Medic sounds even more boring to play as and with. (armor botting getting replaced with buff botting is arguably worse than what we have now)
Throwing my two cents on what to do about those here:
I would give Dreadnought half of Skirmisher's movement speed buffs and/or half of Skirmisher's health regen instead of an additional 25% extra max health.
I would buff Eat Lead by taking the recoil reduction from Hollow Point Rounds and adding that to Eat Lead.
Extra magazine capacity on Support isn't a very good idea. That sounds like way too much extra max ammo (especially with the ability to carry three shotguns or AA12 and M4 becoming a given rather than an optional skill choice). Armor Piercing Shot is useless because of Support's passive penetration bonus (getting enough zeds in a line (or even a rough cluster) to not be able to shoot through them all already essentially never happens, especially on higher difficulties). Penetrator is similarly worthless and should instead be replaced by a re-worked version of Safeguard (20% general damage resistance for the whole team, maybe?).
I don't really have good feedback on the Medic ideas, honestly. At the very least I feel like making the buffs only stack once but significantly increasing duration (to, say, 20 or 30 seconds?) to discourage dart spam buff botting is in order.
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I hope everyone complaining about 3 extra penetration power skills on support does so because they dont realise it will give you higher damage on each target as well.
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