Working For Weapon DLCs?
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That's great, accept that's not what this is about. Thanks for bumping I guess.
Strawman. I'm hardly freaking out and have gave a counter-argument to everything here, your personal attacks don't relate in any way to the OP nor do they counter any existing argument.
Maybe if you didn't try and nitpick every one of my posts for an irrelevant argument to somehow 1up yourself you'd read that I have actually bought them because I support Tripwire and like them as a company very much.
Thanks for bumping my post, I guess.
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Well it is really, although I misunderstood the topic, the point can still be extrapolated. Revising my statement, the mere fact they are in the game period is more of a concern for me than them appearing in my trader list as DLC weapons.
It annoys me because I KNOW Tripwire are good game developers, I know they put a huge amount of effort into their games, and I know they can produce stuff that is just plain awesome. Red Orchestra 2 for example is a brilliantly crafted game. Well balanced, every class has a defined role that allows you to play to your preffered playstyle, its challenging to its core, and it knows exactly what it wants to be. Killing Floor on the other hand had this sort of humorous tone over a rather serious game thing going on. It did leave room for players to get good enough to the point they could clown around, but you couldn't waltz in as a rookie and start dicking about if you wanted to get far. Now its just a case of buy the biggest gun and start cutting things apart.
Games are at their best when there is no such thing as "The Best Loadout", and is why I never got along with games like World Of Warcraft. If you can adapt your build to suit your playstyle, make choices of personal preference without having to gimp your overall effectiveness, and generally have to think what would best apply to the situation, then you're in with a winner. Things like this is where games are at their most fun and although it was never quite perfect, KF did have that spirit.
How many times did you hear Commando's say they take the Bullpup instead of the AK cause they prefer the larger clip and fire rate?
How many times did you see a Medic pick between a LAR and a handcannon as a backup item?
How many times did you hear Supports debate between which combination of pumpy, AA-12, and HS they should take?
Now there is almost always a "Best weapon" to pick. The flare gun for the Firebug seems like the worst offender, but generally across the board every class has a weapon that just melts face when pitted against its rival weapons. For me this kind of thing makes the game so stale, because everyone is forced into playing a certain way otherwise they just aren't as good as their OP counterparts.
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Oh, certainly. I would have made that my first point but I highly doubt they'd take out weapons people have already purchased and people have already grown accustomed.
My main problem doesn't really lie in the fact they're in the trader and one couldn't use them, it's the fact that they're arguably better than other weapons for it's class and show significant advantages that one would have to pay extra to unlock. I'm all for supporting great content, but this isn't fair. That's why I proposed some sort of system to unlock them instead, or pay for it instead.
EDIT:: As a response to your edit, I completely agree, very much so. It just seems like such a farfetched possibility to somehow fix that it won't happen anyway. I'm honestly glad you put it the way you did.
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You sound exactly like the guys wanting Haricher Spebbington released as a form of event character skin. And again want the gun, ASK people to help. God.
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What's going on here?
Oh.
PS, love your sig arblarg. Even though I'm all for keeping stuff balanced to a point.
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Thanks for the completely irrelevant post and strawman argument.
Ditto.
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Now with the Flare Revolvers, aren't you forgetting that Firebug also has the Husk Fireball Launcher which allows you to pretty easily solo a Scrake? It's also a lot safer than using the Flare Revolvers since you don't have to run right into his face to do it. And let's not forget the Husk Fireball Launcher is part of the vanilla game and has been around for much longer than the Flare Revolvers.
And let's also not forget that the Firebug got the Trenchgun in the Halloween update which alone significantly increased the perk's firepower. Even without the Flare Revolvers, the Firebug currently has a very potent arsenal in the vanilla game and I really don't think they offer the massive advantage that you claim they do. I could do just as well with an off-perk Handcannon in place of the Flare Revolver as Firebug.
As for soloing a 6 player Hell on Earth Fleshpound with just the Flare Revolvers, yes it can be done, but look how long it takes and how much ammo you have to use up. A Demo or Support could've killed this Fleshpound at least 10 times over by the time the Firebug has finally killed it:
Killing Floor: Firebug vs. FP (Dual Flare Revolvers) (6Man HoE) - YouTube
And as Nnnarekkk says, you can do it with ANY Firebug weapon, not just the Flare Revolvers. So again, I fail to see how they offer you any significant advantage.
Now with the Buzzsaw Bow, well lets compare that to taking the Crossbow as a Berserker. For one thing, you can get the Crossbow for free by just spawning as a level 6 Sharpshooter or it's really not that expensive to purchase the Crossbow from the trader, unlike the Buzzsaw Bow.
Both weapons have retrievable ammo. The Buzzsaw Bow's ammo does stay around for longer (and makes that horribly annoying sound) so it's a bit easier to retrieve but the Crossbow comes with 36 bolts total. That's a full 20 more than the Buzzsaw Bow has so you don't have to so picky about what you shoot it at. And the Crossbow's ammo is much cheaper.
And let's also not forget that the Firebug got the Trenchgun in the Halloween update which alone significantly increased the perk's firepower. Even without the Flare Revolvers, the Firebug currently has a very potent arsenal in the vanilla game and I really don't think they offer the massive advantage that you claim they do. I could do just as well with an off-perk Handcannon in place of the Flare Revolver as Firebug.
As for soloing a 6 player Hell on Earth Fleshpound with just the Flare Revolvers, yes it can be done, but look how long it takes and how much ammo you have to use up. A Demo or Support could've killed this Fleshpound at least 10 times over by the time the Firebug has finally killed it:
Killing Floor: Firebug vs. FP (Dual Flare Revolvers) (6Man HoE) - YouTube
And as Nnnarekkk says, you can do it with ANY Firebug weapon, not just the Flare Revolvers. So again, I fail to see how they offer you any significant advantage.
Now with the Buzzsaw Bow, well lets compare that to taking the Crossbow as a Berserker. For one thing, you can get the Crossbow for free by just spawning as a level 6 Sharpshooter or it's really not that expensive to purchase the Crossbow from the trader, unlike the Buzzsaw Bow.
Both weapons have retrievable ammo. The Buzzsaw Bow's ammo does stay around for longer (and makes that horribly annoying sound) so it's a bit easier to retrieve but the Crossbow comes with 36 bolts total. That's a full 20 more than the Buzzsaw Bow has so you don't have to so picky about what you shoot it at. And the Crossbow's ammo is much cheaper.
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Spicy said:Too bad you're probably missing the point Falz. That's not what this topic is about.
Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should've just posted this instead:
MEANWHILE AT THE TRIPWIRE FORUMS
Argument Clinic - YouTube
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Except then he would probably charge you and Firebug's are awfully fragile.
One minute to take down a Fleshpound as a firebug is pretty nice considering in any normal situation you'd have to light him up with the mac 10, let him burn out, and re-do this for however long it takes to keep him stable, which is a while.
And if you're by yourself? It would be just that much easier to kill said Fleshpound or Scrake.
I don't think spawning as a class to get a weapon is a valid tactic, as it's more of a glitch.
The Buzzsaw can be picked up after hitting and killing a Zed, the regular Bow cannot.
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*Skims past loooonnnnnnngggg war of nonsense
*Sees Monty Python video posted by DarkFals. Lols for a good while
*Back on topic, notices even more nonsense.
Boxes, stating your point doesn't mean that you should try to put down everyone who pitches in their opinion. Everyone has a say in this, and no offense, but coming into the forums and trying to shut out everyone's thoughts on something isn't exactly a good way to get people to agree with you.
"Please keep your immature comments away from a thread about a legitimate discussion. Thanks for the bump I guess."
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows when a comment is (im)mature, after all, we've been here a while
*Sees Monty Python video posted by DarkFals. Lols for a good while
*Back on topic, notices even more nonsense.
Boxes, stating your point doesn't mean that you should try to put down everyone who pitches in their opinion. Everyone has a say in this, and no offense, but coming into the forums and trying to shut out everyone's thoughts on something isn't exactly a good way to get people to agree with you.
"Please keep your immature comments away from a thread about a legitimate discussion. Thanks for the bump I guess."
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows when a comment is (im)mature, after all, we've been here a while
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Except this isn't a war of 'nonsense'. It's supposed to be an actual discussion.
I'm not doing that at all, in-fact I've given a counter-argument to every single post here, and have only pointed out the ones like these that contribute absolutely nothing except to make a personal jab to provoke some form of angry reply. I don't need people to agree with me here, I'm making an argument, and defending it with my knowledge.
"Please keep your immature comments away from a thread about a legitimate discussion. Thanks for the bump I guess."
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows when a comment is (im)mature, after all, we've been here a while
He clearly knew the content of what he was posting which didn't contribute anything to any previous argument about the topic of the thread and I asked nicely for him to stop.
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Agreed with OP. A lot of you are missing the point- its not excusable to start adding DLC weapons that give an advantage over other players (even if its a co-op game) without any other way to obtain them.
This doesn't have to do with balance. It has to do with they're adding new playstyles that aren't obtainable through vanilla play.
This doesn't have to do with balance. It has to do with they're adding new playstyles that aren't obtainable through vanilla play.
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Boxes said:
And you completely ignore the fact that the Husk Fireball Launcher stuns Scrakes and kills them with 2 headshots, which isn't hard at all to do. If anything, you're a lot more likely to get hurt or killed trying to take him down with the Flare Revolvers.
Boxes said:
Again you ignore a crucial fact that I pointed out. That can be done with ANY Firebug weapon, not just the Flare Revolvers.
Boxes said:
Spoiler!
So taking advantage of a perk bonus that was intentionally put into the game by the developers is glitching now?
Boxes said:
I guess you don't use the Crossbow much because you definitely can pick up the ammo after shooting it. I've done it many times.
Boxes said:
And what happens if you die and don't drop your Buzzsaw Bow and lose a good chunk of your money? Buying a new one with all that ammo on top of the rest of your loadout is going to be pretty expensive so you better hope your team mates will be willing to help fund you.
Boxes said:
And the same goes for the Crossbow. It will penetrate through the Scrake and kill things behind him as well.
Boxes said:
But you completely ignored my point there. My point is even if you weren't targeting the Scrake or FP, you may still unintentionally rage them and get yourself or a team mate killed.
Boxes said:
Because the wiki is always 100% right about everything.
And one headshot from the Crossbow will kill a Siren on any difficulty, regardless of perk or level. Same goes for Husks.
So you really want to spend 80% of your time just running around trying to get all your saw blades back? If you're going to play a primarily ranged class, you might as well just play as a Sharpshooter or Commando. You'll get the job done a lot more quickly and efficiently.
That's true on lower difficulties but on Hell on Earth, the Buzzsaw Bow takes 2 headshots to kill a Scrake and 4 headshots to kill a Fleshpound. So thanks to it's pretty slow rate of fire, you better make sure there's a lot of space in between you and that FP (or that you've got several doors you can weld shut). And that also means having to do a lot compensation for the distance drop on the saws. Oh, and did I mention that a level 6 Sharpshooter can achieve the same results with the Crossbow at any distance? And they also don't have to take the bullet drop into account.
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A few things:
1: Why would you be using a firebug, a class that is known for its crowd control and supporting role, to kill Scrakes and FP's when a competent Sharp, Support, Demo, or Zerker could do it faster and with less chance of something going wrong? I know that the Firebug can, but it is the fact that he/she shouldn't unless they have to. It is like saying the Commando should solo all the FP's because he can. The Firebug doesn't have to worry about being fragile if he doesn't go around looking to solo Scrakes and FP's (and yes Falz/Spicy/Amber/Puppy (and anyone else who I can't really be bothered listing
), I know you guys can, but you are all scary good. So shhh!)2: After reading your arguments, I have to wonder if you even play Zerk. What do you think he has the speed and resistance bonus for? To sit behind everyone and fire saw blades into the horde? No.
The Zerker has those bonuses to get up close and personal with the zeds. And if you honestly think you can kill a 6 man HoE FP faster and safer with the Buzzsaw Bow than you could kiting it (or better yet, leaving it to your designated Sharp/Support/Demo), then you must be a far better player than me, 'cause I know that I couldn't. And where is the fun in killing the scrake with that thing? I would rather be up in his face with my trusty Axe (which would kill him just as fast). The Zerker is supposed to weave in and out of the zeds, destroying him with his melee weapons. The Buzzsaw Bow doesn't make you a more effective Zerker. If anything, it is more of a crutch.
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The Husk Fireball Launcher is also the most expensive weapon in the game at a base price of
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Because with the Flare Revolvers it gives them a much easier chance at doing just that. Of course they can, it's the fact that the weapons makes it easier overall to do the things out of their class range, which comes back to the original argument of why it's ridiculous to have these only as payable DLCs instead of a way to work for them in-addition to or aswell.
A lot actually, and it really is fun tearing through hordes up close, and the only real danger lies in the much higher level Zeds and the Siren, with the Buzzsaw I don't worry about being in proximity of Bloats or Sirens or even Husks really (though I prefer to dodge them and save them when I have the shot). But it's the fact that a class that is meant to be up-close and personal actually has a designated weapon complete with benefits to take things out from a-far is what I'm arguing against.
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