Why Do Axis Win at a Higher Rate Than Allies?
- Thread starter Dubzinator
- Start date
Wish the stats worked and they could actually check who's winning how often on what. I guess an individual server could keep track of games won and lost per map.
I've played about 20 hours, and to me it seems rather equally back and forth. Axis won the first three matches I ever played and I was like, "ummmmm..." but then I went to another server where Allies were on a tear. Been back and forth ever since.
I've played about 20 hours, and to me it seems rather equally back and forth. Axis won the first three matches I ever played and I was like, "ummmmm..." but then I went to another server where Allies were on a tear. Been back and forth ever since.
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^^^ THIS.
Last night I played exclusively ALLIES and because our team was organised it almost seemed EASY to not let the AXIS get even one single win on repeated attempts at SPARTANOVKA even with the crazy numbers of MkB's they were using last night.
Experienced players and team cohesion trump weapon stats and map design. I have observed that numerous times now.
Of course both teams being equally filled with "lone-wolves" I can see how the Germans might be looked at as OP!
At the end of the day, this game isn't to be balanced for the fun-factor of the the lone-wolf but it is (as it should be) balanced for the big picture. That being when both teams are employing tactics and playing as a team. In those cases I have seen no "great imbalance".
Those are the observations of an old RO1 vet.
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Ok, here's the deal: This is basically why the Axis always will have the upper hand of the Allies.
1. It's more rare to play as the Germans in a neutral way in games; thus people tend to pick that side more often = They usually have one or more players than the Allies.
2. The weapons are better. For instance, the MG-34 can get Double Magazines and 75 rounds in each of these for unlocks; that's 150 bullets of rapid fire! The D-28 has 30 bullets to compensate, no unlocks. The PPSH-28 has the worst recoil ever, MP-40 is able to kill enemies at a distance. The list is endless. Also, their first gun has a magazine, the Russian one uses single bullets in a chamber, takes years to reload.
3. The tanks are much better. They have more guns, more armor and more shells. Not even discussable the Germans are useless if they lose to the allies.
4. They have greenish uniforms, which makes them camouflage well in grassy areas.
5. The "hardcore" players play on Axis. Almost always.
Tripwire has a LOT of balancing to do.
1. It's more rare to play as the Germans in a neutral way in games; thus people tend to pick that side more often = They usually have one or more players than the Allies.
2. The weapons are better. For instance, the MG-34 can get Double Magazines and 75 rounds in each of these for unlocks; that's 150 bullets of rapid fire! The D-28 has 30 bullets to compensate, no unlocks. The PPSH-28 has the worst recoil ever, MP-40 is able to kill enemies at a distance. The list is endless. Also, their first gun has a magazine, the Russian one uses single bullets in a chamber, takes years to reload.
3. The tanks are much better. They have more guns, more armor and more shells. Not even discussable the Germans are useless if they lose to the allies.
4. They have greenish uniforms, which makes them camouflage well in grassy areas.
5. The "hardcore" players play on Axis. Almost always.
Tripwire has a LOT of balancing to do.
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Axis is generally the defender on maps like Apartments, Commisar's House, Fallen Fighters, Red October Factory etc, and the defender generally has an inherent advantage especially when the majority of players are idiots who sit back taking potshots instead of moving into the objectives and flanking. On "Neutral" maps like Barracks and Pavlov's House, the German side of the map is generally superior.
On maps where Axis is the aggressor, they generally have an advantage as well like Spartanovka where after the initial spawn wave, the Russians have to run across half the damn map to defend. (Also doesn't help that most people don't get in the damn cap zones and Germans can just cap them with little reprieve). Grain Elevator is probably one of the only Russian favoured maps.
As for gun balance, I don't think Axis has such a huge advantage. A competent shooter is a competent shooter, doesn't matter which gun he's using. (And similarly, an incompetent one will be incompetent) It mainly comes down to the majority of players being ****ty at doing objectives, and the majority of the maps requiring the allies to attack and be somewhat coordinated whilst the defenders just have to find a nice spot to sit and take pot shots. (Which works for the playerbase, since most players suck at the game)
Also, the Panzer IV generally has an advantage over the T34 although personally my experience using the T34 I didn't have too many issues killing PIV's, but I think that had a lot to do with the incompetence of the Axis Tank Crewmen. (I swear a good anti-tank riflemen can absolutely murder you)
On maps where Axis is the aggressor, they generally have an advantage as well like Spartanovka where after the initial spawn wave, the Russians have to run across half the damn map to defend. (Also doesn't help that most people don't get in the damn cap zones and Germans can just cap them with little reprieve). Grain Elevator is probably one of the only Russian favoured maps.
As for gun balance, I don't think Axis has such a huge advantage. A competent shooter is a competent shooter, doesn't matter which gun he's using. (And similarly, an incompetent one will be incompetent) It mainly comes down to the majority of players being ****ty at doing objectives, and the majority of the maps requiring the allies to attack and be somewhat coordinated whilst the defenders just have to find a nice spot to sit and take pot shots. (Which works for the playerbase, since most players suck at the game)
Also, the Panzer IV generally has an advantage over the T34 although personally my experience using the T34 I didn't have too many issues killing PIV's, but I think that had a lot to do with the incompetence of the Axis Tank Crewmen. (I swear a good anti-tank riflemen can absolutely murder you)
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Well, the thing is, in the real world the Germans were superior in every way to the Soviets except one - manpower. In this game we don't have unbalanced player numbers, so the results will be different than what would be expected in the real battle.
You also need to take account of the map conditions. If the Germans are offensive, then it will be harder on them than defensive. Is it possible that it only seems like the Germans win more because you end up playing one kind of map more (with the Germans on defence)?
There is another factor... the "coolness" factor. People like playing the Germans, better players don't mind either way, but they still favour the "coolness" factor of the German weapons.
I just about NEVER join a server and find the allied team has too many players. It's always the other way around. As soon as a slot opens, your team are changing sides to get the cool guns. This means your team is basically constantly made up of the new players who have just joined and probably wanted to be Germans, so they are just basically mucking around until a slot opens up.
IMHO you should only be allowed to swap teams between rounds and team balance should be random and forced. Otherwise self selection nearly always results in the Germans having an unrealistic numerical as well as techinical advantage.
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^^^
This is correct...another good reason to disallow in-session team switching is to prevent people from hearing all of Team 1's strategy and positions over VOIP and then switching to Team 2 and saying "Hey, Team 1 is trying to push up the right side while their MG's distract you in front"....lol I know this probably doesn't happen now because there is basically ZERO strategy in these pub games...but it could
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I think it's compounded by people's lack of knowledge about how territory maps have been designed. They don't get that some maps like Red Oktober Factory or Commissar's House.....there is no where for the Russians to go besides forward. Taking that first objective quickly so your team at least has time to breathe is the most important thing.
Or similarly, they don't realize the map is defensive like Station, and so they camp the first objective point and Germans just flank around them and start capturing behind them.
I think if people just got how each territory map is slightly different, games would be a lot more satisfying and at least last beyond the first lockdown.
I admit it's kind of confusing at first blush, even for people who have played games with systems like these. And really, that's why I think people pick Axis. Playing with people who at least understand the mechanics of the game is so much more gratifying than being surrounded by the clueless.
(Story time. Spawning as a Russian squad leader on Red Oktober. I run forward on the left flank and am greeted by two tanks and die. I respawn to 8 of my teammates crouching or in prone behind walls, directly where they spawned. I'm so close to pulling out my pistol and executing someone for cowardice, but instead I simply yell at people to get them moving. They move. And die anyways.)
It's really nice to not have to do that in every game when playing Axis. The cool guns are just exacerbating the fact that more people who understand the game are playing Axis.
Or similarly, they don't realize the map is defensive like Station, and so they camp the first objective point and Germans just flank around them and start capturing behind them.
I think if people just got how each territory map is slightly different, games would be a lot more satisfying and at least last beyond the first lockdown.
I admit it's kind of confusing at first blush, even for people who have played games with systems like these. And really, that's why I think people pick Axis. Playing with people who at least understand the mechanics of the game is so much more gratifying than being surrounded by the clueless.
(Story time. Spawning as a Russian squad leader on Red Oktober. I run forward on the left flank and am greeted by two tanks and die. I respawn to 8 of my teammates crouching or in prone behind walls, directly where they spawned. I'm so close to pulling out my pistol and executing someone for cowardice, but instead I simply yell at people to get them moving. They move. And die anyways.)
It's really nice to not have to do that in every game when playing Axis. The cool guns are just exacerbating the fact that more people who understand the game are playing Axis.
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^^^This is true especially of new players...they're used to other, more casual FPS's and are surprised when they get insta-killed everytime they pop out of cover....so as a consequence, they walk 10 feet from spawn, plop down in a foxhole, and take long-range potshots all game because they just don't want to die (or worse yet...are just trying to "get kills" as the COD kiddeez sez)
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1. Always go Allies first chance I get.
2.First of all its a PPSh-41 which if put in the right hands (mine) can beat the MKb. Short range, beats MP-40 hands down in seconds, you might use up your whole mag, but you won with that 900 rounds per minute. I got a 150 metre kill with the PPSh-41 on Pav's house. You can pull down to reduce recoil. Not the 150m shot but a pretty good one.
3. They don't have more guns. T-34 was faster and more maneuverable.
4. Soviets have yellow-beige uniforms that hide well in plains, dry earth, and dirt.
5. I'm a hardcore player and I spam-click Allies.
Proving irrelevancy of your comment: Did Stalin go to Hitler and say he couldn't use assault rifles because Stalin didn't have them? Did Hitler say that 300,000 of Stalin's men couldn't fight because the teams wouldn't be even? Did Hitler try and say that Stalin could not use the almighty Is2 because the PzIV wasn't as good? The answer is no.
First rule of RO: Realism > Balance.
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I usually take the team what has less players in it, to balence them out, when they are even I tend to pick german side the only reason for it is the MG34, I love that gun. else I play as a rifelman and for me it doesn't matter if it is K98 or mosin.
And it is possible to win with both teams, it just depends on how are the players playing, usually you lose when people run/camp around alone looking for kills instead doing the objective.
Also have noticed that many players switch side (to axis and allies) when they were loosing.
And it is possible to win with both teams, it just depends on how are the players playing, usually you lose when people run/camp around alone looking for kills instead doing the objective.
Also have noticed that many players switch side (to axis and allies) when they were loosing.
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I've seen this so many times from the 2nd floor of Building 81 on Commissar's as Germans....it's kind of sickening. Like, my friend said to me "Dude, this feels wrong." I would shoot 5 guys with a single clip of the Kar98, reload, and come out to shoot more people running out of the spawn or trying to go prone. They had no clue that 12 Germans were staring right at them from the windows of the objective they SHOULD be trying to take.
And people wonder why millions died in Stalingrad.
I've yet to see any T-34s take advantage of this mobility....other than to try and flank Panzers as quickly as possible. Firing on the move is not easy in this game....and you arguably need to be a far better tanker to be successful in T-34 than in a Panzer.
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Personally if tanks we're fixed I would use them more. Tanks also fear those flying 3Kg pieces of metal called AT-grenades. These are extremely effective and easy to use and the German one does not work the same in real life as it does in game. The German Haufaluafaduang was a MAGNETIC charge with a FUSE and did not explode on impact.
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Spartanovka, for example, is a terrible map. Earlier today I played it on the German side. Had 130 points in the first round. Just now I played for the Russian side...I could barely do anything, and not because my aim sucks or I can't play. I kill people a lot, but the spawn system is so horrible for the Russian side that it seems if I only die ONCE while defending the gullies, the Germans have already captured the Church before I am even able to run back to defend it.
I'm gonna stick to Russians for a while, you really need a good team to win and it works well for increasing overall playing skill.
I'm gonna stick to Russians for a while, you really need a good team to win and it works well for increasing overall playing skill.
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"Good" players usually take the ez mode side (defending), nobody is looking for a challenge anymore.
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i found the win ratio to be fairly even untill the MKB42 came around. now the german team stomps the russians every game.....
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Spartanovka is actually perhaps the easiest map to win as Soviets, heh.
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