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This is why realism = penetration!

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Teq

Grizzled Veteran
Jun 19, 2006
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#1
I know this topic has been discussed Alot of times, But I feel its importance is a priority - atleast when you have looked at this video:

http://www.militaryvideos.net/#

Find the BASIC URBAN SKILLS TRAINING - BALLISTIC PENETRATION TESTS.

* Hiding in light wooden structures doesn NOT protect one from submachineguns, even pistols at 0 degree angle.

* Hiding behind Brick walls, trees, and blocks doesn not protect you from being hit and killed by long rifles and MG's at 0 degrees.

* Against a 12.7 mm round you are safe nowhere except reinforced concrete walls and multi layer sandbags, but they will eventually eat thru, if fired long enough at 0 degree angle. This might be the PT anti tank rifle.

* Vs 88 and 76mm Tank guns, well...
Hit the dirt! Nowhere is safe, but diggin in and pray.

At high angles it seem that the penetration is reduces somewhat to about 50% ?

My point is: Penetration of some sort would greatly increase realism and tactical resort in RO.
 
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#5
hmm... I dont know. Some suggested the idea of making light material non-physical towards certain types of ammunition....
Would this be able to work out?

For example:
Yes = non-physical
No = physical

Simplified penetration values:

Submachine guns & pistols:
Type: Penetration:
Light wood Yes
Thick wood No
Brick/blocks No
Sandbags No
Concrete No

Rifles & MG's:
Type: Penetration:
Light wood Yes
Thick wood Yes
Brick/blocks Yes
Sandbags No
Concrete NO

12.7 & 20mm+ (T-60, PT, Panzerfaust etc)
Type: Penetration:
Light wood Yes
Thick wood Yes
Bricks/blocks Yes
Sandbags Yes
Concrete no

Tankshells:
Type: Penetration:
Light wood yes
Thick wood yes
Bricks/blocks yes
Sandbags yes
Concrete yes
 
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#7
D3terioNation said:
I beg to differ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ij-w_s7h7w&search=red%20orchestra

:eek:

Edit

Yeh you may have to f/w it a bit. for some reason the users recording is mega laggy but you can see the end result quite clearly!
Click to expand...

Firtsly, that wall alone would kill any server on sight!

Secondly, it doesn't show "penetration", but destructible walls.

I for one rather have realistic ballistics than pseudo-realistic penetration like in CS.
 
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#9
The reason they say its impossible is if you were to allow bullets to pass through certain materials in this game it would have to pass through them as if there was nothing there. So if I was shooting at someone behide a fence the bullets would pass through the fence without being affected. There would be no physics involved, the bullets would A: Go through or B: Not go through the material, thickness, angle would all have nothing to do with it. You could have fence 1 meter thick and it would goo through just as easily as the 1in fence. So while there can be penitration it wouldnt work in a way that was right for ROOST.


everyone needs to go out and buy a physics chip for there next game.
 
Upvote 0
#10
I thought that the ptrd was a 14.7mm round and the 12.7mm was a .50 used in the BMG
Click to expand...

I think ur right, my point was that all calibres from 12.5 (0.50) and upwards would penetrate the matrials mentioned.

Firtsly, that wall alone would kill any server on sight!
Secondly, it doesn't show "penetration", but destructible walls.
I for one rather have realistic ballistics than pseudo-realistic penetration like in CS.
Click to expand...

1) Agree after what I've heard about the engine.
2) It SEEMs to show destrucive walls... But we dont know if the bullets passes thru do we?
3) I disagree, atleast for smaller arms, as most of the distances the infantry fight at the mom, I havent noticed much ballistics effect.

For the tanks I beleive ballistics is a must.

Having penetration will give a much more noticeable feel in the game....

a) Suppression and coverfire would be ALOT more effective
b) Which would boost teamwork and use of MG fire, and support.
c) Which would increase the needs for smoke nades
d) It would make the soldiers be more careful about their movement and know when to use conceilment and cover.
e) It would make offensive manouvers without coverfire more difficult, which would prevent rambo behaviour.
f) It will require more use of flanking manovres and tactical movement.
e) It will require tanks to cooperate more with infantry to flush out heavy fortified positions that Light arms cant penetrate. Which again will add to teamwork.

I think I could go on and on.

While ballistics only affect accuratcy, it barely do much for the teamwork and the way the game is played..
 
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#12
You could have fence 1 meter thick and it would goo through just as easily as the 1in fence.
Click to expand...

Hmm I dont think the authors idea was completely understood...

The idea was that certein materials would appear as non-physical to certain calibers, regardless of angle.
It would be a simplified system not caring about angles, but instead make the calibre have abit less penetration on all angles.

A 9mm can easly pass though 2-3 layers of thin wood, but not pass through one layer thick wood.

A 7.62 penetrate many layers of thin wood and penetrate a brick wall.

If it was possible to say for instance that a 7.62mm would pass thru ONE layer of brick and then stop in the next layer the plan would work out ok.

Its abit hard to explain .... Hope u get the idea
 
Upvote 0
#16
Teq said:
Find the BASIC URBAN SKILLS TRAINING - BALLISTIC PENETRATION TESTS.
Click to expand...

This reminds me to the "Fire power demostrations" that the British Army gives. Not being in the army, I've never had the opportunity to see one myself. Basically they start with a Browning HP 9mm pistol and then work up to artillary and CAS.

I've heard that as part of the demo, the "jimmpy" (General Purpose Machine Gun / FN MAG 7.62mm) is used to turn a breeze-block wall into dust, a tree stump into splinters and knock a drum full of water around like it was empty.

I would love to see penetration in the game, but it would also have to teamed with realistic destruction. I'm sure the MG42 was comparable to the FN MAG, and I think the MG42 was in service with some NATO countries for many years, although re-chambered for the NATO 7.62mm round (if I'm wrong about that, I'm sure someone will point it out).
 
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#17
Recce said:
I'm sure the MG42 was comparable to the FN MAG, and I think the MG42 was in service with some NATO countries for many years, although re-chambered for the NATO 7.62mm round (if I'm wrong about that, I'm sure someone will point it out).
Click to expand...

Let me be the one then :)

MG 42 used a 7.92x57 mm round and later versions of the MG 42 (MG 1, 2 and 3) were slightly tweaked and indeed chambered for the 7,62x51mm rounds. The FN MAG has a selectable RoF of ~650 and ~950 rounds a minute, while the MG 42 had 1200 - 1300ish rounds a minute. All in all, the MG 42 was slightly more powerful then the FN MAG.
 
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