The other 80% of RO2 players dont want a "realism" mode.

[griffner]

You did not play RO. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

So since I did not play RO1, I can't have a say here ? I don't think that should be the case. I play this game, I am entitled to my opinion too.


Trust me. I've played every COD (yes, every one) and Red Orchestra is still different. Very different. It can surely be improved, but it's immersive on a whole different level from the COD series. I think the point is, lynching the developpers is no use at all. From what I've seen, they're trying. And that's half of succeeding.

 

[>< f4ct0r...13]

So since I did not play RO1, I can't have a say here ? I don't think that should be the case. I play this game, I am entitled to my opinion too.


Trust me. I've played every COD (yes, every one) and Red Orchestra is still different. Very different. It can surely be improved, but it's immersive on a whole different level from the COD series. I think the point is, lynching the developpers is no use at all. From what I've seen, they're trying. And that's half of succeeding.

No try. Only do. Do or do not.

If you haven't played RO, you don't know. That simple.

To say RO2 features aren't copied straight off of CoD is preposterous.

 

[RedFlagWaver]

Well, I never played RO1, so what do I know, but the whole snap shooting business, the upgrade system (even hough it's *worse* than CoD's), and the Recon Plane's magical "spot 'em all" ability do feel a lot like the CoD4 I used to play.

 

[Holy.Death]

Realism is hard to define, let's start with that.

RO2 is really hard and unforgiving game for starters. My first two days (or day and a half) was to learn how to NOT take a bullet while moving from point A to point B.

I wasn't able to see targets beyond the range of 100 meters and still wondered where the shooter was and how he was capable to shoot me down.

I had to learn how to handle different weapons for both sides (some are easy, some are not) and complete objective while doing so. How to use each class to its fullest extent.

It took time, but I liked it. Nothing can compare to RO2's slowly crawling across the battlefield, running from cover to cover and then rushing fast towards the underground tunnel when you hear the enemy artillery firing down on your position. You take a bullet to your arm. You start bleeding out. Everything is grey and blurred. Man in the entrance to the tunnel is dismembered by shrapnel shoot. You land in a safe spot and bandage yourself before it's too late. And only thought in your head is: "Hell, I made it!".

I never had such feelings with any other FPS (except for L4D series) and I did play in many (most?) FPS games that came out. For some of you RO2 may feel arcade (and you have the right to think so), but it's just a matter of perspective.

 

[Serathis]

I agree with the OP. After a week or so, I stopped playing the game completely. Not even the double XP event could get me back. I have been crashing every two rounds, the game was buggy, there were issues left, right and center. For example, AT rifles are still useless because you can't rearm them.

As for the extra realism features, I'm not opposed to them, but before you polish the diamond, please please please pick it up from the mud first.

 

[MarioBava]

No try. Only do. Do or do not.

If you haven't played RO, you don't know. That simple.

To say RO2 features aren't copied straight off of CoD is preposterous.

It's the other way round. To say they ARE copied straight off CoD is preposterous.

 

[Mekhazzio]

It's the other way round. To say they ARE copied straight off CoD is preposterous.

Indeed. Recognizing that RO1 took quite a few things into ridiculous levels of excess and correcting them does not automatically mean the game has suddenly become a clone of Call of Duty. To hold that position just points out the lack of perspective of the person saying it.

If you personally want to slow down gameplay, that's a fine enough opinion to have, but don't dress it up under the guise of realism if you can't make a cogent argument as to why it's more realistic. You should probably also try to come up with changes that'll actually affect gameplay instead of fixating on red herrings. The huge delay on aiming a weapon and the crawling speed while aiming didn't stop people from room clearing at a quick pace in RO1, it just pushed everyone to do it with hipfiring instead of aiming their weapon. Exact same end result, except it's done in a more annoying and rather less realistic manner. That's not successful game design.

 

[Apos]

Just take a look how CoD gameplay look a like and notice what elements were taken from

Call of Duty - World at War ( PC Multiplayer ) - YouTube

- zero sway or recoil
- small urban maps
- random chatter with stupid english accent
- killcam
- minimap
- recon plane
- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads
- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs
- lack of wound/hit effects
- soldier spawning with enemy weapon
- unlocks
- player progression/perks
and more...

 

[RedFlagWaver]

Yeah, that looks and sounds like a load of ****. And in that, far too much like RO2. Hurts!

...please give us more realism, pleasy please!

 

[DiedTrying]

I was thinking last night that RO2 is a like a color palette.

You start with pretty blue, but then you see a pretty yellow. So you mix them together.

You get pretty green

Now you have pretty green and you mix in pretty red. You get a dull yellow.

Uh oh! You gotta make it pretty again, so we add in pretty purple, but what happens?

It turns brown.

Just a little analogy about how adding new features doesn't make something better.

 

[LordSteve]

Just take a look how CoD gameplay look a like and notice what elements were taken from

Call of Duty - World at War ( PC Multiplayer ) - YouTube

- zero sway or recoil
- small urban maps
- random chatter with stupid english accent
- killcam
- minimap
- recon plane
- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads
- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs
- lack of wound/hit effects
- soldier spawning with enemy weapon
- unlocks
- player progression/perks
and more...

Hehe, Ro2 looks and plays like Cod world at War!! I prefer playing Ro1 and Mods instead of this garbage game!!
You forgot some points in your comparsion:
Mega fast reloading times
Quickkey for using Nades
No Teamplay, just hunting to get a positive K/D Ratio
Etc.

 

[Proud_God]

No Teamplay, just hunting to get a positive K/D Ratio
Etc.

Solid argument, except for the fact K/D is not displayed in any way.

 

[RedFlagWaver]

It is, for yourself, on your profile menu.

 

[griffner]

Just take a look how CoD gameplay look a like and notice what elements were taken from

Call of Duty - World at War ( PC Multiplayer ) - YouTube

- zero sway or recoil
- small urban maps
- random chatter with stupid english accent
- killcam
- minimap
- recon plane
- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads
- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs
- lack of wound/hit effects
- soldier spawning with enemy weapon
- unlocks
- player progression/perks
and more...

- zero sway or recoil : Not true, there is sway and lots of recoil.

- small urban maps: RO2 maps are HUGE compared to COD maps, mostly.

- random chatter with stupid english accent: You can change the native languages easily enough, and you hear the other team in their original language, which is pretty immersive. So... only half-true.

- killcam: Only on certain servers, and then it's not a killcam, it's a "Killed from location" and they enemy may have disappeared from that spot by the time you see that.


- minimap: Yea... Like on every other FPS.. Not a COD innovation, and besides, most servers have it disabled.

- recon plane: You're right, but it's much harder to spot enemies even with the recon plane than in COD.

- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads : I beg to differ : RO2 feels a lot different and its mechanisms are pretty different.

- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs : True... only with mg34 though, which needs to be adressed.


- lack of wound/hit effects: Bandages are at least a start.. at least you don't magically heal like in COD

- soldier spawning with enemy weapon: Well.... That could be considered pretty authentic....

- unlocks : Yea... again, only a few weapons and additions. Which could be fixed, true.

- player progression/perks: There are no "perks", really in RO2, except for heroes helping to reduce the suppression effect in their zones.


So... It would actually help to extrapolate on your arguments rather than spouting commonplace things. Perhaps... don't exaggerate ?

 

[CaseyHairyback]

@griffner

Ditto!

 

[Mekhazzio]

Just take a look how CoD gameplay look a like and notice what elements were taken from

Sure, and since they added mantling to the game, they're taking elements from Prince of Persia! Oh my god! What's next, scimitars and time rewind? WHERE WILL IT END!?

- zero sway or recoil
- small urban maps
- lack of wound/hit effects
- random chatter with stupid english accent
- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads
- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs
- soldier spawning with enemy weapon

All of these are unquestionably done more realistically in RO2 than their RO1 implementation. You classify a 5 meter per second jog for 15 seconds as super-human? 10 year old girls can do far better than that. Are you expecting the Battle of Stalingrad to be waged on open, rolling fields by perfectly organized ranks of silent automatons who would never use a scavenged weapon, cannot understand each other and are unable to accurately fire a weapon without bracing it against something first? Tell that to these guys.

Most of your list is factually incorrect to boot: the RO2 maps are significantly larger on average than RO1 maps; even the map that was directly ported from RO1 got scaled up in the process. The wounding effects are more severe; a consistent bleed is worse than RO1's usual hit result, which was nothing at all. The killcam and minimap have exactly zero presence in the game as it's played online, and you surely know that, but you throw them in anyway.

We get it, you liked RO1. That's great. But RO1 is not an inviolate holy writ that did everything perfectly, especially not if you're coming from a POV of realism. When you fail to do even the least bit of critical appraisal of the actual changes themselves and simply fling around sweeping overgeneralizations, it makes you look deliberately obtuse to the point of trolling.

 

[MarioBava]

- zero sway or recoil : Not true, there is sway and lots of recoil.

- small urban maps: RO2 maps are HUGE compared to COD maps, mostly.

- random chatter with stupid english accent: You can change the native languages easily enough, and you hear the other team in their original language, which is pretty immersive. So... only half-true.

- killcam: Only on certain servers, and then it's not a killcam, it's a "Killed from location" and they enemy may have disappeared from that spot by the time you see that.


- minimap: Yea... Like on every other FPS.. Not a COD innovation, and besides, most servers have it disabled.

- recon plane: You're right, but it's much harder to spot enemies even with the recon plane than in COD.

- uber speed soldiers movement, ADS, reloads : I beg to differ : RO2 feels a lot different and its mechanisms are pretty different.

- soldiers run'n'gunning with LMGs : True... only with mg34 though, which needs to be adressed.


- lack of wound/hit effects: Bandages are at least a start.. at least you don't magically heal like in COD

- soldier spawning with enemy weapon: Well.... That could be considered pretty authentic....

- unlocks : Yea... again, only a few weapons and additions. Which could be fixed, true.

- player progression/perks: There are no "perks", really in RO2, except for heroes helping to reduce the suppression effect in their zones.


So... It would actually help to extrapolate on your arguments rather than spouting commonplace things. Perhaps... don't exaggerate ?

Pretty much what I was going to say about almost every point.

 

[MarioBava]

Sure, and since they added mantling to the game, they're taking elements from Prince of Persia! Oh my god! What's next, scimitars and time rewind? WHERE WILL IT END!?
All of these are unquestionably done more realistically in RO2 than their RO1 implementation. You classify a 5 meter per second jog for 15 seconds as super-human? 10 year old girls can do far better than that. Are you expecting the Battle of Stalingrad to be waged on open, rolling fields by perfectly organized ranks of silent automatons who would never use a scavenged weapon, cannot understand each other and are unable to accurately fire a weapon without bracing it against something first? Tell that to these guys.

Most of your list is factually incorrect to boot: the RO2 maps are significantly larger on average than RO1 maps; even the map that was directly ported from RO1 got scaled up in the process. The wounding effects are more severe; a consistent bleed is worse than RO1's usual hit result, which was nothing at all. The killcam and minimap have exactly zero presence in the game as it's played online, and you surely know that, but you throw them in anyway.

We get it, you liked RO1. That's great. But RO1 is not an inviolate holy writ that did everything perfectly, especially not if you're coming from a POV of realism. When you fail to do even the least bit of critical appraisal of the actual changes themselves and simply fling around sweeping overgeneralizations, it makes you look deliberately obtuse to the point of trolling.

I guess I don't truly know where I stand on this "realism" mode thing, but a seriously large part of me is resisting it and is yelling "hear, hear!" to posts like this one. Well said.

I'm sure RO2 as it exists now needs more than just some bugfixing. Some game mechanics need tweaking. But I've come to feel that what needs tweaking needs tweaking in a manner that is not just a step back to what RO1 was. I strongly feel that RO2 is actually in its heart the superior game. To me the forward strides it takes beyond RO1 just need to be refined rather than reverted. And I've said before I hope that any core gameplay changes are made across the board; I feel that vanilla RO2 should have a core identity. I don't want violent contrast between realism settings, because I can't always play on my preferred server.

For example, Generally RO2 hugely improves on the unrealistic step-by-step relationship between stances, movement, and aiming of RO1. To me that was one of the things about RO1 that nagged me. But along RO2's improvements in this area, if you are sprinting, then aim down sights and hit your hold breath key, it's too unrealistic; going too fast of a time from sprinting to aiming down the sights with immediately no sway. A huge change does not need to be made here. The easiest thing I could think of to fix this is have the breath control start on a breath rather than on a held breath when it is used from sprinting, depleted stamina, or a state of suppression. That way it will take a brief moment after sprinting to get your breath under control. Problem is solved with no radical change or reversion of any new game mechanic.

 

[Golf33]

I somehow doubt that your schoolgirl is running her race in hobnail jackboots, a greatcoat, carrying a rifle and with several kilos of equipment hanging off her body. She is also not trying to remain highly alert to her surroundings, and does not need to be able to hit the ground at an instants notice. She doesn't start her run exhausted and hungry (the base state for soldiers at any time). She is running on flat grass not rubble and her penalty for rolling an ankle is unlikely to be a higher chance of violent death in the immediate future. At the end of her race she gets to rest; she doesn't have to keep jogging, or get on her belly and crawl, while maintaining combat effectiveness at the hazard of her life.

She didn't grow to adulthood during the Great Depression, and was probably not malnourished and (by modern standards) unhealthy before even joining the army.

There are very few similarities between sprinting for sport and running under battlefield conditions. Comparisons based on the two are no more useful than comparing apples with bicycles.

75m in 15 seconds is an excellent running speed for the period and conditions shown in the game. A four minute mile breaks down to 100m in 15 seconds and no human was able to make that speed until 1954.

At the 1936 Olympics, Jesse Owens set a world record time of 10.2 seconds for the 100m. This time was not beaten for twenty years. Owens grew up in the US and would have developed his amazing physique before the Great Depression hit and hunger and malnutrition became commonplace. By contrast your basic 18-20 year old soldier of 1942 was was between six and eight years old when the depression hit and probably spent the next few key years being chronically malnourished.

Fifteen seconds of sprint at five metres per second, followed by a steady jog for as long as you like and a high level of combat effectiveness is, if anything, too damn fast if you look at what people could do back then instead of what they can can do now.

 

[storPoteten]

I guess I don't truly know where I stand on this "realism" mode thing, but a seriously large part of me is resisting it and is yelling "hear, hear!" to posts like this one. Well said.

I'm sure RO2 as it exists now needs more than just some bugfixing. Some game mechanics need tweaking. But I've come to feel that what needs tweaking needs tweaking in a manner that is not just a step back to what RO1 was. I strongly feel that RO2 is actually in its heart the superior game. To me the forward strides it takes beyond RO1 just need to be refined rather than reverted. And I've said before I hope that any core gameplay changes are made across the board; I feel that vanilla RO2 should have a core identity. I don't want violent contrast between realism settings, because I can't always play on my preferred server.

For example, Generally RO2 hugely improves on the unrealistic step-by-step relationship between stances, movement, and aiming of RO1. To me that was one of the things about RO1 that nagged me. But along RO2's improvements in this area, if you are sprinting, then aim down sights and hit your hold breath key, it's too unrealistic; going too fast of a time from sprinting to aiming down the sights with immediately no sway. A huge change does not need to be made here. The easiest thing I could think of to fix this is have the breath control start on a breath rather than on a held breath when it is used from sprinting, depleted stamina, or a state of suppression. That way it will take a brief moment after sprinting to get your breath under control. Problem is solved with no radical change or reversion of any new game mechanic.

Exactly my feelings too. I dont want to go back to RO1:s imprecise and unintuitive handling of the character. It felt like playing with a massive input lag.

Your suggestion to fix the overly fast ADS is very sound and should be easy to implement.

In my opinion the first and foremost things that needs to be done,before even thinking about gameplay changes, is fixing the major problems/bugs.

The netcode , The sound(or should I say the silence of the ninjas ) The ping. Those things are "the meat n`potato" in a fps game and if they`re not cooked good the side orders will not matter.

And new content is very important e.g maps.