The Mkb42(H)

[GnaM]

To add to the already mentioned reasons why the current in-game Mkb42 implementation is questionable...

Wasn't the whole point of the assault rifle concept to provide a universal infantry weapon to replace both SMGs and rifles and eliminate the concept of different "roles"? In other words, in places where the Mkb42, Stg44, etc. were issued, isn't it more likely that they were issued to all the riflemen and assault troops in a unit, rather than just to 1 or 2 "elite" soldiers? Not only is this how new gear is typically issued in militaries, but this would also constitute a more accurate test of the weapon's combat use, since one of its major intended advantages was that everyone in a unit would use the same interchangeable ammo and mags.

Therefore, in-game, if the Mkb/Stg were to appear at all, it'd be more authentic to feature it only on a few maps specifically depicting battles where it was issued, and then offer it to ALL the rifleman and stormtroopers in a squad (or multiple squads), rather than including it on ALL maps but then only allowing 1 or 2 elites to use it.

The very act of creating a separate in-game role dedicated to the Mkb42 is contrary to the way it was intended to be used. Moreover, the idea of giving special weapons to "elite" individuals is more of a sniper thing in the first place which most likely wasn't practiced among riflemen, assault troops, or machinegunners much, if at all. The idea reeks of fanboys who think everything in the whole Eastern Front was just like Enemy At The Gates.

 

[bier]

To add to the already mentioned reasons why the current in-game Mkb42 implementation is questionable...

Wasn't the whole point of the assault rifle concept to provide a universal infantry weapon to replace both SMGs and rifles and eliminate the concept of different "roles"? In other words, in places where the Mkb42, Stg44, etc. were issued, isn't it more likely that they were issued to all the riflemen and assault troops in a unit, rather than just to 1 or 2 "elite" soldiers? Not only is this how new gear is typically issued in militaries, but this would also constitute a more accurate test of the weapon's combat use, since one of its major intended advantages was that everyone in a unit would use the same interchangeable ammo and mags.

Therefore, in-game, if the Mkb/Stg were to appear at all, it'd be more authentic to feature it only on a few maps specifically depicting battles where it was issued, and then offer it to ALL the rifleman and stormtroopers in a squad (or multiple squads), rather than including it on ALL maps but then only allowing 1 or 2 elites to use it.

The very act of creating a separate in-game role dedicated to the Mkb42 is contrary to the way it was intended to be used. Moreover, the idea of giving special weapons to "elite" individuals is more of a sniper thing in the first place which most likely wasn't practiced among riflemen, assault troops, or machinegunners much, if at all. The idea reeks of fanboys who think everything in the whole Eastern Front was just like Enemy At The Gates.

Talking from my memory, the first test with equipping a big mass of soldiers at once with the STG was in ?early 1944? when the 1. Infanteriedivision received enough of them to equip the mass of soldiers with it.

 

[Nikita]

And here we see some russian veterans, taking a photo break

Clearly post-Stalingrad, as shoulder-boards were not re-introduced until after the battle (a fact the game actually gets wrong). See below (with Nikita Khruschev):

Bend Over

The helmet decal suggests here that the photo was taken during the correct time period, but without any evidence of where the photo was taken, it's not very conclusive.

I suggest you use your own common sense. Why ship a prototype weapon, for which spare parts, magazines, ammunition, and attachments are all unique to this special class of weapon, which frontline soldiers have not been trained to use or maintain, thousands of miles across tenuous supply lines to a city in which the fighting is so fierce that entire units are being decimated to a fraction of their size? Even if you get the weapon to the city, it requires unique parts, unique magazines, unique magazine pouches and cleaning kits, and unique ammunition--a logistics nightmare that would make supplying the weapon more troublesome than valuable. A lucky soldier might get to use it in a single day's fighting, but where in hell are they supposed to find 150 rounds of 7.92 x 33mm Kurtz for the next day's combat?

That's why when frontline testing was conducted, it was done on a unit-by-unit scale, because keeping one regiment supplied with the proper equipment is far more feasible than parcelling out individual weapons among squads across an entire army...

 

[Giuliano]

Lets say someone came up with some truly definitive evidence proving that the Mkb wasn't at Stalingrad... the truth is, it wouldn't change anything.

 

[bier]

The helmet decal suggests here that the photo was taken during the correct time period, but without any evidence of where the photo was taken, it's not very conclusive.

http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/cross-search/search/_1358810252/?search[view]=detail&search[focus]=98

The description with Sturmgewehr 44 seems to be wrong, but rest of the name gives Sowjetunion Nord and HGr Nord in Summer 1943.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I think people blow the entire thread out of proportion by not realising the OP dates back to 2011 within week or two after release, long before any class adjustments were made to the relative number of assaults in-game for starters.

Even then it wasn't that bad.... at worst you had, if I remember correctly, the Commander and perhaps the Squad Leaders able to pick the MKB.

Big whoop....

Proving a positive or a negative... same difference.


Seriously, who doesn't have access to a classic typewriter and can make a simple mockup of such a document....

Still ZERO pictures of a single MG42 in Stalingrad <---my proof

Sweet hell man, yeah... it's all a conspiracy, no matter what evidence is tossed at you, you're right, everybody else is wrong.... because you know better than everybody else.

You were there, you know first hand.

And the government shot JFK, Humans never landed on the moon and Crop Circles are created by dancing leprechauns.

You dropped your tin foil hat.

 

[Ts4EVER]

Wasn't the whole point of the assault rifle concept to provide a universal infantry weapon to replace both SMGs and rifles and eliminate the concept of different "roles"? In other words, in places where the Mkb42, Stg44, etc. were issued, isn't it more likely that they were issued to all the riflemen and assault troops in a unit, rather than just to 1 or 2 "elite" soldiers?

It is a question of doctrine. The StG44 was supposed to be part of a new tactical concept called the Sturmzug. However, some StG44s (not to mention the prototype test models) reached the front lines before the organisational changes were implemented in most units (that only happened in the mid to end of 1944). Before that, the StG44 was treated like the "machine pistol" in the old German infantry organisation, meaning it was issued to squad leader if available.
However in the Sturmzug organisation, which was implemented in the new Volksgrenadier Divisions near the end of 1944, two whole squads of a platoon were to be equipped with the StG44, with two lmg groups making up the third squad to give covering fire.

 

[GnaM]

It is a question of doctrine. The StG44 was supposed to be part of a new tactical concept called the Sturmzug. However, some StG44s (not to mention the prototype test models) reached the front lines before the organisational changes were implemented in most units (that only happened in the mid to end of 1944). Before that, the StG44 was treated like the "machine pistol" in the old German infantry organisation, meaning it was issued to squad leader if available...

Thanks for the info, that certainty clears some things up.

Lets say someone came up with some truly definitive evidence proving that the Mkb wasn't at Stalingrad... the truth is, it wouldn't change anything.

Well, practically speaking, most likely Tripwire will not do anything about it either way.

Conceptually speaking, it shows that the Mkb is not appropriate for the game from an authenticity standpoint. Even if RO2 did not specifically claim to portray Stalingrad in 1942, or if we were talking for RO3, and the maps could portray any events over the course of the whole war, it's still a total misrepresentation to put Mkb/Stg's on every map. At most, they should appear on one or two maps which represent the final stages of the conflict.

From a gameplay standpoint, I don't think the weapon particularly helps things either. It may not be "broken", but really...if you want to run around with assault rifle the whole time, why are you playing a WWII game?

 

[Nikita]

If anything, I just hope that they finally get around to fixing the Mkb's third-person sound effects... the odd report you hear when an Mkb is firing some distance away has been intrusive and annoying for some time now...

 

[Sensemann]

If anything, I just hope that they finally get around to fixing the Mkb's third-person sound effects... the odd report you hear when an Mkb is firing some distance away has been intrusive and annoying for some time now...

Yeah next thing you will tell us is that you believe in Santa Clause.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

God just modify the darn weapon to a STG 44 and use it on maps that are before the battle of Stalingrad. Just reskin the weapon and put it to use in a realistic way. The stats for the MKB/STG 44 are the same. So why not do this and stop with the complaining?