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The list from Red Orchestra player

Apos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2007
1,749
1,436
0
Europe
www.enclave.pl
Hello everyone,

first of all I'd like to inform all of you, that list below is addressed to new gamemode only. So if you are happy about current modes you don't need to worry about. That list is to explain the difference between original Red Orchestra and Heroes Of Stalingrad and point out elements that need major improvements or changes, however no one wants to bring back such elements of RO like clunky animations or remove such great features like bullet penetration, mantling, adjustable sighs etc - we love these! We want to create a list for new gamemode that will be addressed to old Red Orchestra players - first and most loyal TWI's customers that prefer more oldschool and tactical skill based gameplay over current modern warfare FPS game trends and solutions.

I'm aware that list is long, but it mostly represents changes which were made to original RO gameplay to create HoS, and are not welcome by us. Some of the points (mostly fixes) could be implemented for other gamemodes as well, but as I said before: if you like HoS's relaxed and realism gamemodes you don't need to bother those. We old RO player simply want to see a promised by TWI gamemode that will be addressed to us, so we can call HoS as successor of RO and finally enjoy the game, not force ourselves to play a very different game (because we are still here waiting for more news from Yoshiro! ;)).

Take a note that we're not looking forward for answers: "grab mod tools and make it", "you are 0.0001 of community" or "bigger maps will fix it". TWI promised us a successor of RO, game with improved gameplay of Ostfront and we still have faith that they can make it happened, and if you take a look on the list, bigger maps won't help at all. There are plenty games similar to HoS (Homefront, CoDs, Battlefields, MoH, etc) and many of those offer more, with better graphics or better implementation of some HoS features etc and we can easily pick those over HoS, but not so many games are like RO (and we want RO). So let's start:


  • bigger sway: a bit more in crouch position, way more when standing, moving or exhausted
  • add player's momentum:
    • soldier shouldn't accelerate from 0 to full sprint in 0.5 second or stops, add him a feeling of own mass
    • Running upstairs/uphill/downhill/etc should be WAY slower (even fast paced BF3 implemented it and feels great there) and use more stamina
    • slow down change of stance (standing/crouch/on a belly) (I sometimes have a feeling that BF3 is slower)
    • slow down climbing up/down on ladder (again even fast paced Battlefield 3 simulates it better)
    • soldier should move slower on tough terrain like garbage, bricks, mud/dirt, trenches, holes, etc. If that's too difficult to implement for you, slow down overall player movement so it will represent average soldier's speed on all kind of terrain, not only flat tarmac ground
    • Entering ADS should take more time (especially from sprint) and shouldn't be aimed directly in the middle of a screen - it should be more based on skill, precision and mouse control than quickness only
    • slow down a player's reload speed so player needs to thing twice before he reloads and checking magazine weight will be more useful (let's say reload time takes 5 times more time then magazine check)
    • Mantling should take a bit more time and use stamina
    • Remove ability to insta-turn 180 degrees
  • Note: changes above will improve tactical gameplay big time and also make such game features like cover system and blind firing more useful because running and gunning will be more difficult and less effective than tactical approach to enemy.
  • fatigue system that affects aiming, players movement and effectiveness
  • bring back RO advanced wounding system or improved version of it: minor wounds affect soldier, ie. hit in leg = can't sprint and moves slower, hit in hand = way more sway and recoil etc, no more immortal body parts after taking a hit and using 1 sec bandaging
  • other wounds should be deadly, soldier combat ineffective in battle = dead
  • remove original slow death
  • player will start bleeding from minor wounds if not bandaged, his stamina go slowly (~ 2minutes) down, his vision will become blurry and finally he dies (new slow death). Remember he still can fight, but less effectively
  • bandaging will stop bleeding only, don't heal or make you immortal. Soldier can have only 1 bandage and it takes ~7-10 second to bandage. This plus above will force players to find a cover, safe place to bandage,
  • add delay when player change weapon to grenade or other weapons
  • add delay to picking up weapon from a ground, currently player can run over weapon, press CTRL and pick it up (or bring back RO's solution where player need to stop, pick up weapon and ammo punches from a ground)
  • remove auto looting (sometimes player's character automatically picks up a weapon from a ground)
  • remove current suppression effect and add Darkest Hour's
  • add supersonic sound cracks, louder bullet sounds (as part of suppression effect)
  • rework morale system: it doesn't do much now. Good idea could be to add bonuses to capping power when soldiers are close together to improve teamplay (thoughts?)
  • remove player progression bonuses (- 20% recoil, - 20% reload time, +20% movement etc)
  • remove prototype weapons and all unlocks
  • remove enemy weapons from loadouts
  • bring back historical loadouts (ie. PPsH w/ drum mag as standard)
  • bring back attachable bayonets
  • do not remove player's visual changes progression (these don't affect gameplay and some variety is good thing)
  • bring back original LMG purpose:
    • remove "balanced" recoil and add realistic when deployed (more effective when deployed)
    • remove possibility to run'n'gun with LMGs,
    • add "combat stance" for LMGs from RO:O, that takes a bit of time to enter, so you can shoot only from stationary position
  • add free look at least for deployed LMG and stationary HMG
  • bring back soldiers body collision
  • remove lockdown or make it based on reinforcements level, not time: 4 minutes to capture a flag is way to little and we want back epic RO:O battles. Even Battlefield ain't time limited and use reinforcements.
  • remove ability spawn on SL
  • remove tank AI BOTs (even in Battlefield 3 it is worth to have a other player in a tank and it improves teamplay big time, when in RO2 coop tanking completely disappeared)
  • remove tanks insta repair ability when those are next to ammo boxes (even in Battlefield 3 you need mechanic, his special ability selected and some time to repair vehicles or wait long time to start auto repairs very slowly)
  • improve tank's damage system plus add missing features like destroyable optics and tracks (these were introduced with huge success in Darkest Hour)
  • rework magnetic mines that doesn't work as magnetic mines, but normal grenades with low throw range
  • Commander needs to be all the time during artillery call in front of radio, so he cannot just click and go.
  • Commander needs to be in front of radio to cancel artillery
  • remove scout plane
  • remove spotting system and "soldier spotted" markers
  • add options to change visibility/transpency/scale of "HUD on demand" we don't need huge sign "X zone is under attack" on a screen etc.
  • remove English, but add native voices
  • remove random soldier's chatter so only player can decide when he wants to shout or say something (that will also fix problem when soldier says "did I get him?" when player cannot see enemy but shoot in his direction)
  • rework enemy indicator on a screen:
    • it should show friendlies
    • it shouldn't show enemies behind smoke or not moving, well hidden targets
    • it should work just like in ArmA 2
  • bring back RO:O in-battle menu class selection, with class descriptions and screens, these were really cool
  • remove kill points from scoreboard
  • remove information about dead enemies from scoreboard
  • bring back information about player's class on scoreboard (so players can address request by nickname if team needs ie. markman in specific area)
  • resize scoreboard font so all players can be seen even on 64 slot server
  • add "always ready" button so player won't need to click ready every time to respawn
  • fix smoke grenades so these won't "explode" and spread mid air like do now
  • allow defenders to respawn 3-5 second earlier in first wave only to give them time to prepare defensive positions, so it simulate defense of the objective better. Currently it looks like both teams run onto first objective at the same time or attackers are even faster (Grain Elevator)
  • rework protected area system: move further protected area and give defenders more time to retreat and fortify in next objective area (even Battlefield 3 has it implemented in Rush gamemode)
  • add class selection system similar to American Army where players with fastest PC won't take best roles (and usually waste it). Players with highest level in specific class should have priority.
  • rework such UI elements like voting (votekick, vote map, etc) currently these are barely visible and useful.
  • when player checks his ammo it should say "magazine seems to be heavy/light" instead of "magazine is full".
  • add information when player writes "np" and forgive for teamkill, currently it shows nothing and it is confusing

Feel free to add your points if you want to, but please don't start flame war. We - old TWI customers - also want to have our place in HoS world, don't change yours and have fun in game too!

Thank you for your attention.
 

Avtomat

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2011
359
80
0
Hungary
That was one hell of a read.

There's only two things I don't fully agree with. That is the remove tank AI. And removing the character's random talking.

Firts the Tank AI:
it should be: -Remove AI hull MG.
Why? Because that is the thing causing problems, it snipes everything and everyone knows it. What should be done is the tanker gets to order his driver to move the tank and thats it. Or he can invite people from the team into his tank as driver, gunner or whatever.

No more of RO1's usual idiotic tank noobs who jump into an expirienced players tank who's actually doing something, and drive off with it into the middle of nowhere, and refuse to either GTFO or do what the the T-commander orders them to do. If you don't have direct comms with the driver of the tank, your tank is gonna burn very soon. Happend to me a bazillion times in DH and RO.

The ingame vehicle chat is pretty useless too. Atleast for me. I found it hard to try giving orders to my driver trough that when I have an other tank in my sights shooting at me, or infantry charging with PzFausts and stuff.

And now the character voice.
If only the players would use the voice menu in game, the battlefield would be in complete silence.
Only thing you would hear is exploding arty shells, tank engines and the death screams of your fallen friends or foes.
I remember that from RO1. I always found it kinda retarded. In such brutal urban combat, soldiers are gonna scream orders and even just insults at eachother, they wouldn't at all be these super disciplined guys who's only goal is to live longer so they can kill more of the enemy.

EDIT:
-Make footseps a little louder ffs. Soldiers move like ninjas now.
 
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pepihoh

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 27, 2010
308
73
0
I agree with you on pretty much everything expect with battle chatter, for the same reason Avotmat pointed out and with the removal of spotted enemies markers. Why would you remove them? I don't see anything wrong with them.(its not like the spotting system is like the one in bc2 where mashing the Q button would reveal everyone that is in the center of your screen regardless of you actually seeing them.
 

swatx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2011
42
11
0
Vilnius, Lithuania
raw-recruits.com
An excellent post, a lot of good ideas. I never played RO or DH, just RO2 but I must say I expected more tactical gameplay in this game. Your list would probably fix a lot of gamemplay problems.

However, you should keep in mind that they need to continue working on other things such as the SDK (I can't compile my scripts, it just crashes), random game crashing (one of our clan members to this day can't play the game because it crashes at the splash screen, money well spent, no?) and other issues. Introducing a new game mode is something that TWI won't have the time to do in the near future. Also, regular new content (maps) should be a priority as well to keep the game fresh. Well, that's what I think anyway. :)
 

I. Kant

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 9, 2007
1,516
286
0
First of- and don't take me wrong, I am merely asking out of curiosity, but who is the collective "we" you seem to represent?

Next- the points to which I did not respond I generally agree with without reservations.


  • slow down a player's reload speed so player needs to thing twice before he reloads and checking magazine weight will be more useful (let's say reload time takes 5 times more time then magazine check)
  • Mantling should take a bit more time and use stamina
What is wrong with mantling speed? Perhaps make it so that the taller the obstacle, the longer the mantling speed, but otherwise the characters are essentially vaulting a belt-height obstacle. What is there to be slow about? (Also, note that the MGer when vaulting from a deployed position, grabs the MG with both hands and mantles using his legs along, which is slower - pretty much like in ARMA2). Good idea about it using stamina - which jumping should do as well (it did in RO1).
The reload speed could be perhaps tweaked on a per-weapon basis (I'm thinking of the belt-fed MG34 here), but for bolts and most guns it seems to be fine, especially when compared to the excruciatingly slow reload in RO1 (which seemed to have been quite a prevailing opinion, I remember).

  • remove auto looting (sometimes player's character automatically picks up a weapon from a ground)
I thought this was actually a bug, so it should not be limited to the "new" mode only, should it?

  • remove prototype weapons and all unlocks
  • remove enemy weapons from loadouts
I'd change the operative word from "remove" to "severely limit" (as in, to hero characters only). Some of the unlocks are absolutely viable, as well. The sniper scopes, the MG34 belt feed and TT33 in lieu of the MN revolver are just three examples off the top of my head.

  • bring back soldiers body collision
  • remove lockdown or make it based on reinforcements level, not time: 4 minutes to capture a flag is way to little and we want back epic RO:O battles. Even Battlefield ain't time limited and use reinforcements.
Body collision, well, I understand. But I feel a lot of grief will be had, if those wanting it back have their way. Mark my words (and let me be a false prophet, I pray to the Heavens).

I cannot, will not agree with removing lockdown. Tweak it to make it even (slightly) longer, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. It rewards a good defence and prevents excessive frustration (much like no body collision saves - at least - me a lot of frustration).
Just because the attacking team don't win (because of lockdown timer before the final cap), doesn't mean the round was not good. A game does not have to end with the final cap- it is no less epic, even when it ends on an earlier cap. All it is is a bit shorter, perhaps.
And in a case where the attacking team is severely outmatched for skill by the defending team, it cuts short the defenders' trollage (yes, it's fun to shoot them zerglings as they desperately come into the breach once more, but only when you are the dispensing end; I should know, I tend to join the underdogs whenever I can).

[*] remove ability spawn on SL
[*] remove tank AI BOTs (even in Battlefield 3 it is worth to have a other player in a tank and it improves teamplay big time, when in RO2 coop tanking completely disappeared)
Essentially, I feel, the spawn on SL is not a bad thing. It should spawn you further from the enemy, perhaps (but still closer to the frontline than from the spawn). I would also like to merely point out that, for instance, ARMA2's PVP mode familiar to me (Valhalla) has the Mobile HQs to serve as a spawn point.
Or we could, indeed, cut it out. (I am sorry for the irony that follows) But why stop there? Why not force us to swim across the Volga, or cross the steppe from the Don every time our character dies? Or should we rather push out of our virtual mother's womb and make it through our childhood, school years and then early military training (some extra military campaigns for Axis along the way)?
But seriously. I'd say leave spawn on SL, but make the current spawn conditions a bit more restrictive (and on populated servers they already are quite restricted).

  • Commander needs to be all the time during artillery call in front of radio, so he cannot just click and go.
  • Commander needs to be in front of radio to cancel artillery
Yes, why not. Would sometimes make it prohibitively difficult to call in arty in a timely manner (I imagine areas around radios would become prime hunting grounds for all rambos and other ninja infiltrators). A feature that RO1 was sorely missing.
Initially, I had reservations about the second thing there, as it would perhaps needlessly tie the commander to the radio. Remember, it only looks like there is a lot of time between arty cooldowns, but if you select arty instead of rockets, or, even better, mortars, then you are reduced to the role of an automated smoke dispenser/ arty caller with little time left for actually playing (let along enjoying) the game. But I understand we are going for hardcore (and a one-up on RO1 in this case).
Sure, as I'm always open to changes, we might as well tie the commander down to the radio. Let's see how that works out.

  • remove scout plane
  • remove spotting system and "soldier spotted" markers
Okay with the first, no idea what's wrong with the 2nd (as already indicated in previous responses). Using the spotting function is a nice, expedient, way of indicating a threat to your fellow teammate. It is nothing artificial, it is no radar. It does not clutter the VoIP with perhaps laboured, perhaps clumsy or perhaps confusing explanations on where the threat is. Nor does it prevent you from using VoIP (or TS, for that matter) to describe the threat verbally. It is a way out for those without mics.
One more time - what the hell is wrong with spotting (as a soldier)?

  • remove English, but add native voices
  • remove random soldier's chatter so only player can decide when he wants to shout or say something (that will also fix problem when soldier says "did I get him?" when player cannot see enemy but shoot in his direction)
Remove the first part of the first point. Merely add an option.
Don't agree with removing battle chatter. In fact, I very strongly disagree with removing it (and again, as previous responses show, I am not alone). By the by, how does the already implemented option of limiting battle chatter's frequency work? I don't know, as I've had mine on full frequency since Septemeber, but perhaps someone has experimented with that and would care to share their findings?


  • bring back RO:O in-battle menu class selection, with class descriptions and screens, these were really cool
  • remove kill points from scoreboard
  • remove information about dead enemies from scoreboard
  • bring back information about player's class on scoreboard (so players can address request by nickname if team needs ie. markman in specific area)
  • resize scoreboard font so all players can be seen even on 64 slot server
  • add "always ready" button so player won't need to click ready every time to respawn
  • fix smoke grenades so these won't "explode" and spread mid air like do now
  • allow defenders to respawn 3-5 second earlier in first wave only to give them time to prepare defensive positions, so it simulate defense of the objective better. Currently it looks like both teams run onto first objective at the same time or attackers are even faster (Grain Elevator)
  • rework protected area system: move further protected area and give defenders more time to retreat and fortify in next objective area (even Battlefield 3 has it implemented in Rush gamemode)
  • add class selection system similar to American Army where players with fastest PC won't take best roles (and usually waste it). Players with highest level in specific class should have priority.
  • rework such UI elements like voting (votekick, vote map, etc) currently these are barely visible and useful.
  • when player checks his ammo it should say "magazine seems to be heavy/light" instead of "magazine is full".
  • add information when player writes "np" and forgive for teamkill, currently it shows nothing and it is confusing
The whole fragment above is a list of various UI fixes (apart from the point about smoke grenades, obviously), most of which should again not be specific to the new mode, I feel. And just so it's clear, I do agree with all of those things in that last quoted fragment (even if I'm a little indifferent to some; and I'd actually miss the mid-air smokes).
 

Cwivey

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
2,963
118
0
In the hills! (of England)
Picking one very specific part in the post above me. Jumping hunks about 1/5 of your stammina in one go in RO2:HOS.



I for one, recently changed BACK from Native vocies to the English version, I find being able to understand what my team-mates are saying around me can be quite helpfull. Also why I'd want to keep the battle chattar in.
 
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shakenbake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
310
89
0
USA
Ok...having been here in the forums for a little bit one thing I am noticing is quite a bit of what looks like to be disappointment that RO2 does not have the elements of RO1 and many of the dedicated players really, really, really liked RO1.

So here is my really, really, really stupid question that is know way meant to offend the dedicated RO1 players/community....is there a reason you guys don't play RO1 anymore?

Sounds like you guys really liked that game...is it know longer available?

Obviously I did not play RO1 but really enjoy RO2 this question keeps nagging at me...

Thanks guys...
 

Sojuz

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 21, 2008
163
67
0
I agree with all of things you mentioned, except one.

- remove spotting system and "soldier spotted" markers
Actually its good thing, unfortunately, like most of the innovations introduced by TWI it does not work as expected.
Spotting system is great thing but it must be more noticeable. I don't mean to have another icons on screen, well though yes, BUT hidden under tactical view.
In my opinion it should works like that:
When you see enemy soldier/tank you press button enemy spotted and you shout "enemies !" (of course in German or Russian ...). The closer is your friend, he gets louder warning. Then he immediately check tactical view and quickly get to know where enemies are.
Enemy spotted marker should be high enough, cause in the end it is hidden under tactical view.

Additionally what i would like to see:
- remove defending/attacking icons when spectating, I really really hate it.
- remove this thing, when after capping object entire hud is displayed, actually it is even tactical view... not sure. Well if I need to look at tactical view I would simply press button, I don't want to see it every time after someone cap sth.
- rework command menu, lack of: "I need help at (object) !...."

is there a reason you guys don't play RO1 anymore?
Many ppl left because of: outdated graphic, engine limitation, lack of updates, not fixed exploits/bugs. Others left because... others left.
 
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Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
Wow that was a huge OP, but I read it all--and agree with most of it.

I'd suggest, Apos, that you asterisk (***, **, or *) which improvements are, in your opinion, highest, high, moderate, and low priority. Looking at that massive list, I'm sure any dev looking at a list that huge would either feel their heart sink or a strong urge to roll their eyes. Unfortunately, we have to acknowledge that it's their game to make, not ours (unless we pick up the mod option). Not every one of these suggestions, and not even all of the good suggestions, will make it in.

RO2 is so close to the perfect game we've always imagined playing--that's why everyone has so much input, because everyone thinks that with just a few, or many, changes, it will be exactly the game they want it to be. But not everyone's idea of a perfect game is the same, sadly, and we all have to be willing to compromise.

For example, except for ADS and changing ladder climbing speed, many of Apos's movement suggestions sound like they would be difficult to implement or contentious. Fiddling with mantling and reload animations to make them slower, for instance, would be time consuming as it involves changing many third-person and first-person animations and would need to be extensively tested in gameplay. And as for terrain type and slope dictating speed--I have no idea how you would even go about changing that. Conversely, that developer effort could be better spent redoing the bandaging system--a critical fix.

Points I disagree on:

--slow death. What's wrong with it? If the ability to use iron sights and reload in slow death is removed, I'll be perfectly happy with the system. It's original, and I don't feel it's unbalanced whatsoever.

--suppression. The current effect is useless because of insignificant sway, not the effect itself. Bullets passing by do disturb your aim as you flinch. Bullet cracks would be nice, but I think their absence is a bug, not an oversight.

--morale. The current morale system already influences capping speed and suppression--it's just hard to figure out what morale your character has at a given moment.

--spawn on SL. I think it adds a fair amount of strategy to play and makes it easier for squads to stick together (once a few changes are made). The conditions (not under fire, in sight of enemy, suppressed, or in an objective) are stringent enough that it's fairly hard to spawn on your SL anyway.

--Tank AI--does it really need to be removed? I think dumbing down the AI significantly would suffice. The bots can't see for you, so tanking alone without AI aimbots once they are nerfed will mean that your situational awareness is vastly inferior in addition to your weapons accuracy, giving the advantage to team tankers.

--Commander radio suggestions. While having the commander be forced to remain near the radio to cancel artillery is realistic, for gameplay purposes, the reasons are obvious why artillery cancellation should be available away from the radio.

--Spotting system--what's wrong with it? People barely use it, but it certainly comes in handy to point out that tank, sniper, or MG.

As for all your other points, I agree wholeheartedly and raise you the mighty :IS2:. I wish too that some way existed of having them all make it in, but between everyone's subjective definitions of realism, the difficulty of implementing some suggestions, and the sheer number of proposed suggestions, that's most likely not going to happen.


I agree most emphatically in particular on defenders spawning first--these meeting type engagements feel just a bit odd. I'd much rather have the defenders spawn inside the first objective.
 
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Don Draper

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 6, 2011
829
432
63
Melbourne Australia
Hello everyone,

  • bigger sway: a bit more in crouch position, way more when standing, moving or exhausted

  • Sway is fine as it is... this is RO2....not RO1.
    [*] add player's momentum:
    They should go faster?
    [*] soldier shouldn't accelerate from 0 to full sprint in 0.5 second or stops, add him a feeling of own mass
    I agree... should build up from a walk to a sprint...but if you have ever sprinted it only takes2 to 3 seconds to get into full stride in real life.
    [*] Running upstairs/uphill/downhill/etc should be WAY slower (even fast paced BF3 implemented it and feels great there) and use more stamina
    MAYBE
    [*]slow down change of stance (standing/crouch/on a belly) (I sometimes have a feeling that BF3 is slower)
    NO
    [*]slow down climbing up/down on ladder (again even fast paced Battlefield 3 simulates it better)
    HAVE TAKEN NO NOTICE
    [*] soldier should move slower on tough terrain like garbage, bricks, mud/dirt, trenches, holes, etc. If that's too difficult to implement for you, slow down overall player movement so it will represent average soldier's speed on all kind of terrain, not only flat tarmac ground
    FINE THE WAY IT IS
    [*] Entering ADS should take more time (especially from sprint) and shouldn't be aimed directly in the middle of a screen - it should be more based on skill, precision and mouse control than quickness only
    NO
    [*] slow down a player's reload speed so player needs to thing twice before he reloads and checking magazine weight will be more useful (let's say reload time takes 5 times more time then magazine check)
    NOT REALISTIC>>>> WATCH SOME VIDEOS
    [*] Mantling should take a bit more time and use stamina
    MANTLING IS FINE.....needs to be less clunky thats all.
    [*] Remove ability to insta-turn 180 degrees
    ARE you saying you cant turn around almost instantly in real life?

    [*]Note: changes above will improve tactical gameplay big time and also make such game features like cover system and blind firing more useful because running and gunning will be more difficult and less effective than tactical approach to enemy.
    Inherrant problem is that in realism there is no second life... and you are trying to keep the reinfocements and make the game more difficult to prevent something, someone can do in real life if they dont value there life.
    Makes the Lives more valuable and the realism will follow automatically...i have noticed in firefight mode.....one life and people start taking cover and are alot more careful. It is really that simple...some of your changes i agree with... but you are trying to make common easy things more difficult so it stops people doing what they can do naturally....just usually wouldnt because in real life they dont get a second chance.

    [*]fatigue system that affects aiming, players movement and effectiveness
    Making the game harder by reducing movement does not make it more realistic.
    [*] bring back RO advanced wounding system or improved version of it: minor wounds affect soldier, ie. hit in leg = can't sprint and moves slower, hit in hand = way more sway and recoil etc, no more immortal body parts after taking a hit and using 1 sec bandaging
    Current RO2 version is / well will be better once fully working.
    [*] other wounds should be deadly, soldier combat ineffective in battle = dead
    I Agree.
    [*] remove original slow death
    SLOW DEATH is part of the drama.. it is good feature...maybe not realism..but atmospheric.
    [*]player will start bleeding from minor wounds if not bandaged, his stamina go slowly (~ 2minutes) down, his vision will become blurry and finally he dies (new slow death). Remember he still can fight, but less effectively
    too me, EIther you are bleeding to death or you are not... there is no little wound that suddenly starts bleeding more.

    [*] bandaging will stop bleeding only, don't heal or make you immortal. Soldier can have only 1 bandage and it takes ~7-10 second to bandage. This plus above will force players to find a cover, safe place to bandage,
    Agree
    [*] add delay when player change weapon to grenade or other weapons
    I think the current delay is OK.
    [*] add delay to picking up weapon from a ground, currently player can run over weapon, press CTRL and pick it up (or bring back RO's solution where player need to stop, pick up weapon and ammo punches from a ground)
    This makes some sense.
    [*] remove auto looting (sometimes player's character automatically picks up a weapon from a ground)
    I have not experienced this.
    [*]remove current suppression effect and add Darkest Hour's
    NO.
    [*] add supersonic sound cracks, louder bullet sounds (as part of suppression effect)
    Agree....some times you just get the suppresion...but it is hard to know if you are being shot at...
    [*] rework morale system: it doesn't do much now. Good idea could be to add bonuses to capping power when soldiers are close together to improve teamplay (thoughts?)
    Keep and Fix.
    [*] remove player progression bonuses (- 20% recoil, - 20% reload time, +20% movement etc)
    Server optional. people like earning and leveling up etc...kepp it for ranked servers... if they want to level the game... make it server optional that leveling up dosnt apply.
    [*] remove prototype weapons and all unlocks
    NO. I like the idea of being able to access new weapons.

    [*]remove enemy weapons from loadouts
    YES i agree.... but soldiers have used the enemys guns... prehaps just restrict it more. maybe only 1 player per class can access it.
    [*] bring back historical loadouts (ie. PPsH w/ drum mag as standard)
    Not so sure.. historical is good.. but choice is great.
    [*] bring back attachable bayonets
    But if it makes no diffrence to firing there is no need.
    [*]do not remove player's visual changes progression (these don't affect gameplay and some variety is good thing)
    It adds atmosphere... But i thought you wanted to remove leveling etc.. or would veterans still excist?
    [*]bring back original LMG purpose:
    Not sure what you mean?

    • [*]remove "balanced" recoil and add realistic when deployed (more effective when deployed)
      Agreed, as long as recoil is not unrealsitic to create more difficulty to create a false realism.
      [*] remove possibility to run'n'gun with LMGs,
      I dont see how that is possible.. if some one wants to charge with a LMG that is there prerogative....the realism lost because of it isnt the gun and ability to reun and gun....it is the reinforcement levels... while you have many lives you will get people running and gunning.

      [*] add "combat stance" for LMGs from RO:O, that takes a bit of time to enter, so you can shoot only from stationary position
      didnt use LMG much in RO1 so i cant remember.
      [*] add free look at least for deployed LMG and stationary HMG
      wouldnt bother me
      [*] bring back soldiers body collision
      Interesting.
      [*] remove lockdown or make it based on reinforcements level, not time: 4 minutes to capture a flag is way to little and we want back epic RO:O battles. Even Battlefield ain't time limited and use reinforcements.
      NO. Lockdown is one of the best features. It stops the game from turning into a rifle skirmish... and brings the assualt class into the battle more so the game is more rounded.
      It has fixed alot of problems with the original RO.... not that it hasnt brang some more with it.... but im sure these can be sorted out.
      You need some incentive to attack Cap zones and the lockdown does this.
      If you didnt it would be a battle of attrion between rifles and being prone.
      In real war places have to be atacked and taken, usually to cut off an enemy else where from its reinforcments or to encircle a larger army as part of a wider strtegic plan. Keep lockdown it is a great feature.
      [*] remove ability spawn on SL
      Not realistic, but i like it. there is inherent risks with it...but great gains... it is a double edged sword and makes the game more fun.
      [*] remove tank AI BOTs (even in Battlefield 3 it is worth to have a other player in a tank and it improves teamplay big time, when in RO2 coop tanking completely disappeared)
      Unfortunately i understand the problem....but it is a necceary evil i feel.

      [*] remove tanks insta repair ability when those are next to ammo boxes (even in Battlefield 3 you need mechanic, his special ability selected and some time to repair vehicles or wait long time to start auto repairs very slowly)
      Didnt even know you could do that!

      [*] Commander needs to be all the time during artillery call in front of radio, so he cannot just click and go.
      Why?
      [*] Commander needs to be in front of radio to cancel artillery
      Agreed
      [*] remove scout plane
      Disagree Commanders had access to such things, perhaps not as quickly in the game as in reallife but it was very much used to identify troop concentrations.
      [*] remove spotting system and "soldier spotted" markers
      Disagree.
      [*] add options to change visibility/transpency/scale of "HUD on demand" we don't need huge sign "X zone is under attack" on a screen etc.
      Dosnt bother me
      [*] remove English, but add native voices
      Choice in menu preferred.
      [*] remove random soldier's chatter so only player can decide when he wants to shout or say something (that will also fix problem when soldier says "did I get him?" when player cannot see enemy but shoot in his direction)
      Dosnt bother me...adds atmosphere.... which is part of the reason people play games.
      [*] rework enemy indicator on a screen:
      I have not problem with it.

      [*]bring back RO:O in-battle menu class selection, with class descriptions and screens, these were really cool
      Partly agree... The information about the loadouts is lacking.
      [*] remove kill points from scoreboard
      Disagree, but a Death tally should be added so we can have a K/D ratio.
      [*] remove information about dead enemies from scoreboard
      Not sure what you mean?
      [*] bring back information about player's class on scoreboard (so players can address request by nickname if team needs ie. markman in specific area)
      Agreed
      [*] resize scoreboard font so all players can be seen even on 64 slot server
      MAkes sense
      [*] add "always ready" button so player won't need to click ready every time to respawn
      Dosnt bother me... but it sounds like a reasonable feature.
      [*] fix smoke grenades so these won't "explode" and spread mid air like do now
      More a bug...
      [
      *] allow defenders to respawn 3-5 second earlier in first wave only to give them time to prepare defensive positions, so it simulate defense of the objective better. Currently it looks like both teams run onto first objective at the same time or attackers are even faster (Grain Elevator)
      Really map dependent and who tunes it i think.

      [*] rework protected area system: move further protected area and give defenders more time to retreat and fortify in next objective area (even Battlefield 3 has it implemented in Rush gamemode)
      Interesting.... i never thought someone would be advocating extending protected areas... i like the idea... but it is not realistic... it stops the fluidity of battle.
      [*]add class selection system similar to American Army where players with fastest PC won't take best roles (and usually waste it). Players with highest level in specific class should have priority.
      But people with slower PCs dont waste it? thats stupid.
      If it is about level those with high levels will always get the role they like and others will never be able to level up.
      [*] rework such UI elements like voting (votekick, vote map, etc) currently these are barely visible and useful.
      Agreed
      [*] when player checks his ammo it should say "magazine seems to be heavy/light" instead of "magazine is full".
      Makes sense.
      [*] add information when player writes "np" and forgive for teamkill, currently it shows nothing and it is confusing
      Dosnt bother me.
 

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
i agree but this probably like the 14,000th time this change list has been posted.

TWI didnt give a s*** pre release, and they probably dont give a s*** now. i look forward to the day where i see a steam update which address these issues...
 
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C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,282
2,719
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I agree with this list, but I disagree with the removal of ambient voices. If it's realism and immersion you want, other people screaming and shouting in the battlefield is something that happens a lot, and it goes a long way in adding that feeling to the game. The silence in RO1 was just silly and unnatural.

Also I'd love it if the voice commands could be operated like in RO1 or KF. Pressing the V key and then using the numbers on a little list that sits on the side, rather than a FRIGGIN HUGE console-style round selector thing.
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
Ok...having been here in the forums for a little bit one thing I am noticing is quite a bit of what looks like to be disappointment that RO2 does not have the elements of RO1 and many of the dedicated players really, really, really liked RO1.

So here is my really, really, really stupid question that is know way meant to offend the dedicated RO1 players/community....is there a reason you guys don't play RO1 anymore?

Sounds like you guys really liked that game...is it know longer available?

Obviously I did not play RO1 but really enjoy RO2 this question keeps nagging at me...

Thanks guys...
It's a really, really, really old game now.

Ro1 came out way back in 2006, and even at the time, it was just a continuation of the RO-Mod which had existed since 2003 (thats 9 years ago now), and it had outdated graphics and engine even before it was released.

The gameplay is why most of us played and loved it, but after so many years, the clunky old game engine, the 2003 era graphics, all the bugs and exploits that was never fixed, eh, it gets hard to stay excited for a game that old for so many years, which is why we were all really excited for there finally beeing a sequal!

But then the sequal turned out not to have the gameplay.. massive disappointment right there :(
 

shakenbake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
310
89
0
USA
It's a really, really, really old game now.

Ro1 came out way back in 2006, and even at the time, it was just a continuation of the RO-Mod which had existed since 2003 (thats 9 years ago now), and it had outdated graphics and engine even before it was released.

The gameplay is why most of us played and loved it, but after so many years, the clunky old game engine, the 2003 era graphics, all the bugs and exploits that was never fixed, eh, it gets hard to stay excited for a game that old for so many years, which is why we were all really excited for there finally beeing a sequal!

But then the sequal turned out not to have the gameplay.. massive disappointment right there :(
Thanks for the history lesson...much appreciated! :D
 

Destraex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
368
67
0
I like most points in the thread.
As long as the devs do not go overboard and keep things "real" I would vote yes to them as a server implimentation mode called "full realism".
 

Serathis

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 25, 2009
473
84
0
And as always: add free look for MG.
Fix rearming the AT trooper, currently I get stocked up with satchels instead of AT ammo.
 

Extension7

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 22, 2010
1,766
323
0
East Coast USA
www.createphpbb.com
Pretty decent list. Long, but decent.

It's so long I won't even show what I agree and disagree on, I'll just say this:

Some of the suggestions are a bit too over the top, RO2 is not your personal realism infantry WW2 slow-as-**** simulator. It's a game ment to have realistic appeals and to be a more hardcore style of FPS rather than arcade.

Again, some of the suggestions put it over the top, but a good portion makes sense.