Should check out some videos. I only added the comment about recoil after I saw some myself. The UMP does like to throw itself around a bit since the firing rate is lower and that makes it tricky to control in long bursts.
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The Gun Suggestion Thread
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Should check out some videos. I only added the comment about recoil after I saw some myself. The UMP does like to throw itself around a bit since the firing rate is lower and that makes it tricky to control in long bursts.
i did
it does throw itself around a litle bit, but actually mostly stays inplace when dooing that
YouTube - H&K UMP 45
best vid ive found
it does throw itself around a litle bit, but actually mostly stays inplace when dooing that
YouTube - H&K UMP 45
best vid ive found
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and?
its still VERRY controllable, considering you have trained forces who use it
but anyways, what is the definition or astricious recoil?
this sounded to me like you wanted to give it a recoil wich makes the gun kick like a FN-FAL in fullauto
its still VERRY controllable, considering you have trained forces who use it
but anyways, what is the definition or astricious recoil?
this sounded to me like you wanted to give it a recoil wich makes the gun kick like a FN-FAL in fullauto
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Well after heavy thinking a weapon idea to fit in KF. I found out they wouldn't have much trouble balancing/fixing this weapon. The would stick this in for Commando's to deal about 1.8X - 2.3X The damage of the L22A2. Making the L22A2 Crowd Control and this weapon the "Heavy".
Name: Groza 7.62/40
Origin: Russia
Design: Bullpup
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Rate of Fire: ~700 rounds per minute
Magazine: 20 Round Box
Yes, it's kinda of an "odd ball" but if you think about it. Stat wise it fits rather well. It will shoot slower/deal more damage/have less rounds per magazine.
Everyone is thinking of adding an non-bullpup design weapon. Making it so everyone perk can use this weapon rather well minus the reload commandos get. Keeping it Bullpup allows Commandos to still get bonus damage and makes it Perk Specific.
Example: if the L22A2 does ~23 without perks and ~34 with perks. Then the Groza could do ~32 without perks and ~48 with perks.
Doesn't sound like it's game breaking and it fits rather well. Tell me what you guys think.
Name: Groza 7.62/40
Origin: Russia
Design: Bullpup
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Rate of Fire: ~700 rounds per minute
Magazine: 20 Round Box
Yes, it's kinda of an "odd ball" but if you think about it. Stat wise it fits rather well. It will shoot slower/deal more damage/have less rounds per magazine.
Everyone is thinking of adding an non-bullpup design weapon. Making it so everyone perk can use this weapon rather well minus the reload commandos get. Keeping it Bullpup allows Commandos to still get bonus damage and makes it Perk Specific.
Example: if the L22A2 does ~23 without perks and ~34 with perks. Then the Groza could do ~32 without perks and ~48 with perks.
Doesn't sound like it's game breaking and it fits rather well. Tell me what you guys think.
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well i'd rather use something that isnt only in use by a few russian special units
and that thing is ugly as hell
and that thing is ugly as hell
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Well after heavy thinking a weapon idea to fit in KF. I found out they wouldn't have much trouble balancing/fixing this weapon. The would stick this in for Commando's to deal about 1.8X - 2.3X The damage of the L22A2. Making the L22A2 Crowd Control and this weapon the "Heavy".
Name: Groza 7.62/40
Origin: Russia
Design: Bullpup
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Rate of Fire: ~700 rounds per minute
Magazine: 20 Round Box
Yes, it's kinda of an "odd ball" but if you think about it. Stat wise it fits rather well. It will shoot slower/deal more damage/have less rounds per magazine.
Everyone is thinking of adding an non-bullpup design weapon. Making it so everyone perk can use this weapon rather well minus the reload commandos get. Keeping it Bullpup allows Commandos to still get bonus damage and makes it Perk Specific.
Example: if the L22A2 does ~23 without perks and ~34 with perks. Then the Groza could do ~32 without perks and ~48 with perks.
Doesn't sound like it's game breaking and it fits rather well. Tell me what you guys think.
Wow, and I thought the AK47 was the most ugly gun in the world...
Nice fit statwise, but very unlikely to be in the game
Oh, and it is ... well there is no words to describe how ugly this is.
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Renagade Raven said:Wow, and I thought the AK47 was the most ugly gun in the world...
Nice fit statwise, but very unlikely to be in the game
Oh, and it is ... well there is no words to describe how ugly this is.
Yes, I know it's rather ugly but when it comes to how it would fit 'Stat' wise. It does perfectly well. What would be the point of adding a G3 or any other assault rifle if everyone can use it the same since no one will get any damage/recoil bonuses. All the commandos will get is the faster reload but the guy next to you still does the same damage. You try and think of a bullpup that shoots a higher caliber than a 5.56mm. There isn't many.
All I'm pointing out is - It can be added with little and no change to the game. Perk Wise/Balance Wise.
Here is a picture of one I found on google that is probably for STALKER but you get to see how it's like 3D model wise.
[URL="http://sleekupload.com/uploads_jpg/21/groza_2.jpg"][url]http://sleekupload.com/uploads_jpg/21/groza_2.jpg[/URL][/URL]
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Higher caliber != more power. 7.62 Soviet doesn't fragment very well at all; 5.56 leaves larger wound channels, especially at close range against unarmoured opponents.
If you want a bullpup in a "higher caliber", sorry, you're out of luck. The only rifle-chambered bullpup I can think of off the top of my head is the Kel-Tec RFB.
Just use a regular assault rifle, either in a more powerful cartridge or with a longer barrel (longer barrel = higher velocity = larger wounds).
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lol
a 7.62x39 definatley has more stoppingpower than a 5.45x39 or a 5.56x43
Zeptorem if you want to spread myths and half-knowledge here, then you are in the wrong place
this is the former Red Orchestra forum, there is a huge ammount of gun.nuts here
yes a 5.56 does fragment, as does a 5.45, but neither of them comes close to the stoppingpower of a 7.62x39
im not saying that the 7.62x39 is the ultimate stopper, there are many more higher-powered rounds around.
a 7.62x39 definatley has more stoppingpower than a 5.45x39 or a 5.56x43
Zeptorem if you want to spread myths and half-knowledge here, then you are in the wrong place
this is the former Red Orchestra forum, there is a huge ammount of gun.nuts here
yes a 5.56 does fragment, as does a 5.45, but neither of them comes close to the stoppingpower of a 7.62x39
im not saying that the 7.62x39 is the ultimate stopper, there are many more higher-powered rounds around.
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lol
a 7.62x39 definatley has more stoppingpower than a 5.45x39 or a 5.56x43
Zeptorem if you want to spread myths and half-knowledge here, then you are in the wrong place
this is the former Red Orchestra forum, there is a huge ammount of gun.nuts here
yes a 5.56 does fragment, as does a 5.45, but neither of them comes close to the stoppingpower of a 7.62x39
im not saying that the 7.62x39 is the ultimate stopper, there are many more higher-powered rounds around.
You don't know what stopping power is, do you?
5.56 has a thin jacket and a deep cannelure; the opposite of 7.62 soviet. It fragments violently above ~2400 FPS. 7.62 soviet will only distort if it hits a hard target. Have you ever seen ballistic gel hits from either? 5.56 is devastating to soft targets at close/medium range compared to 7.62x39, which just yaws and goes straight through.
Muzzle energy != soft tissue damage. Expansion does.
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This game doesn't exceed any distances of 200m straight nor can you see that far. The equation you are telling me only applies to longer distances. At close range a 7.62 would still do more damage (even though it doesn't expand) than a 5.56 which you will have to rely on the tumbling to happen. Which I expect the 7.62 to have more penetration also.
Point-Blank - 7.62x36mm Wins / 5.56x45mm Loses
Long Range - 5.56x45mm Wins / 7.62x36mm Loses
The Groza is only ment to deal more damage to tougher opponents (Scrake/Fleshpounder/Patriach) which have tougher skin also.
The gun even though it's ugly would fit perfect fine 'statistically' and would require no modifications to perks.
Using a regular assault rifle pointless if it isn't affected by any perk. Making it meaningless since everyone would do the same with it.
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O rly?
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN happen, it doesnt allways
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN cause verry fatal wounds to vital organs
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN have a greater effect than a 7.62x39
but those are all CAN's
its not like a 5.56 would desintegrate into 10000 fragments that rip throught the whole body and pulverize the whole target
in most cases the 7.62 has way more stoppingpower than a 5.56 especially at close range
remember we are talking about the typical killing floor ranges, and those are 50 -100 meters at maximum
and typically a heavy round doesnt rely on fragmentation or tumbling
see .30-06, .308, 8mm mauser, 8x33, ect ect ect
those rounds rely on brute force to know something down, and this isnt a problem for full sized rounds, but the intermediate rounds that rely in this principe lack the stoppingpower and accuracy at long rannge (starting at around 300m upwards)
yes i have seen balistig gel tests, even for exactly the ammunition we are talking about, in fact i probably know more about firearms than you do, so PLEASE stop treating anyone who answers to your half-knowlege posts as if they were some forum kids, who dont know jack about weapons
i know its hard, from whatever game you come from, you probably are right with that attitude, as 99% of the ppl posting about stuff like this in a game like CS dont even know what a rifling is, but it certainly is wrong here
as allready mentioned this is the former RO Forum
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Completely the opposite.
Past 200m, the 5.56 simply keyholes. 7.62 does more damage and penetrates more.
At close range, 7.62 still yaws, but the 5.56 actually has problems of underpenetration because of how violently it fragments. The 7.62 will probably have greater penetration than 5.56 at any range.
5.56 does "tumble", briefly (inches into the target), before it breaks apart at the cannelure and sends fragments of lead and copper into the unlucky target. The result is a small fist-sized wound channel.
I don't know where you guys get your ideas on terminal ballistics...
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You guys gotta chill with the whole "stopping power" thing.
7.62x39 is a big round, yes. It also travels slow and is very heavy. This gives it good penetration. When it hits something, its size and energy allows it to travel through something easier. The same principle can be applied to other large pointed rounds.
Smaller, faster rounds like the 5.45 and 5.56 are lighter and react very differently when they collide with other objects. Their speed and size give them accuracy and range, but that size translates to less penetration power because of their relatively low kinetic energy. So, when they hit something they either tumble (the bullet will slow down in the front while its momentum pushes it erratically through a soft object, causing a large wound channel) or fragment causing significant tissue damage. This is why modern weapons are leaning more toward these lighter calibers. For their wounding potential AKA: stopping power.
Other rounds like the .45 HP are designed to exploit that same fragmentation and cause more damage by fanning out instead of just punching through with its size.
7.62x39 is a big round, yes. It also travels slow and is very heavy. This gives it good penetration. When it hits something, its size and energy allows it to travel through something easier. The same principle can be applied to other large pointed rounds.
Smaller, faster rounds like the 5.45 and 5.56 are lighter and react very differently when they collide with other objects. Their speed and size give them accuracy and range, but that size translates to less penetration power because of their relatively low kinetic energy. So, when they hit something they either tumble (the bullet will slow down in the front while its momentum pushes it erratically through a soft object, causing a large wound channel) or fragment causing significant tissue damage. This is why modern weapons are leaning more toward these lighter calibers. For their wounding potential AKA: stopping power.
Other rounds like the .45 HP are designed to exploit that same fragmentation and cause more damage by fanning out instead of just punching through with its size.
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problem with hollow points is that in most cases even normal clothing will sop it from expanding
(doesnt apply to all HP's as there are many many different types as you all know)
(doesnt apply to all HP's as there are many many different types as you all know)
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O rly?
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN happen, it doesnt allways
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN cause verry fatal wounds to vital organs
yes fragmenting and tumbling CAN have a greater effect than a 7.62x39
but those are all CAN's
I think you mean "happens almost all the time".
Strawmen and hyperbole: a deadly combination.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here.
Apparently not.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a drawn-out sip from this cup of coffee in my hand...
,
*TPHHPHPHPHTTTHH*
That's funny, considering this is exactly who I'm dealing with.
problem with hollow points is that in most cases even normal clothing will sop it from expanding
(doesnt apply to all HP's as there are many many different types as you all know)
Uh, no. Some low-powered hollowpoints, like .32 ACP and .380 ACP *might* fail to expand if the target is wearing thick denim, but higher-powered pistol rounds do just fine.
MYTH: BUSTED.
Now, onto the 7.62 Soviet. I'll never understand why people think it's such a great round; there's a number of reasons it was replaced in the former Union by the superior 5.45. You know how it was made? A bunch of Soviet engineers sat around a table and had this conversation:
"Alright, I've got a great idea for an intermediate rifle round. We take a large-caliber rifle bullet, and mate it to a case with half the powder volume it was designed for."
"Wait, won't that mean the bullet will be stable when hitting the target, making it fail to fragment or expand and instead simply pass through?"
"Yes! Brilliant, isn't it? Also, its great, capitalism-crushing weight means it halves the power of a similar rifle round while passing on absolutely none of the weight savings that a smaller, lighter, higher-velocity round offers."
"Great idea, comrade! Is there any way we could make the bullet cut through the air with all the grace and efficiency of a coal-fired steamboat?"
"Absolutely! Now, what sort of weapon should we have for this new round? I hear comrade Kalashnikov has a good weapon up his sleeve."
"Ah yes, but it needs some improvements."
"Indeed, we make the sight radius really small. No, smaller. See this target pistol? Smaller than that."
"Great, now is there any way we could move the center of the reciprocating mass higher? Those capitalist svinyej are making a rifle that recoils directly into the shoulder."
"Yes, we should make the op rod incredibly heavy and move a bunch of the bolt carrier's mass upward. And that buttstock? It's too high up. Move it down a bit. Now we're talking! With any luck, this weapon will recoil upwards, not rearwards. Maintaining sights-on-target is entirely overrated."
"Looking good. Now, ergonomics. Is there any way we could make absolutely none of the controls operable without removing your firing hand from the grip?"
"Absolutely! While we're at it, this thing doesn't need a bolt release. Reloads shouldn't be too short; our soldiers might waste ammo or something!"
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Those two things are very different and often inversely related to each other. Stopping power essentually comes from a round's ability to dump all of it's kinetic energy into the target quickly, before exiting the body. Hence rounds that fragment and tumble have alot of stopping power because as it hits flesh, it's energy is quickly dissipated into the tissue by multiple fragments or the huge wound channel from tumbling. That kinetic energy is what causes damage.
On the other hand, rounds designed to be more armour piecing (solid steel core rounds) do not fragment because they are much harder and are designed to not tumble upon hitting something. Rounds like this will slice right through a person, doing much less damage (because alot less kinetic energy is dumped into the tissue, alot of the energy is still with the round as it's still travelling at significant velocity after exiting the body).
For a round of given kinetic energy, the more penetration it has, the less stopping power it has.
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