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Level Design Stalingrad Map Brainstorm

Sichartshofen

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 21, 2005
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This shall be a community discussing on Stalingrad map ideas. Feel free to post maps, photos or any other useful info.

As of now the Battle of Stalingrad has barely been touched on in RO. We've seen the warehouses and factories. We know Pavlovs house and Kommissarhaus are being made. EvilHobo plans to make Red Square in the winter.

What we haven't seen is the bitter house to house and street fighting that was notorious during the battle. My idea is a map called "Rattenkrieg" which depicts just that. In other words there would be alot of interior fighting. The only question is what area to model it all after.
 
I demand MOAR COWBELL!

martin-schemm012814_kuhglocke_2.jpg
 
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Nice listof what I would love to see: Especially number 3!

1. The first Stalingrad battles
2. The German thrusts into the city from sept 1942-Nov.
3. A lot of combined arms maps and big tank engagements like for example in Red October and the Red barricks
4. The encirclement Dec-Jan 1942
5. The attempted Break-out Operation Wintergewitter
6. The any important conflicts leading up to the Surrender feb 1942.
 
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Scenario ideas:

1 - The low-ish apartment buildings along Prospekt Lenina (as was) just riverwards of Barrikady gun factory - househopping north by the Germans and later south by the Russians.

2 - Mamayev Kurgan - one day someone is going to make this. Combined arms over winter trenches on a huge great dome-shaped hill.

3 - Tsaritsa gorge - big old balka with apartment blocks on either side - killing fields aplenty.

Design notes for house-to-house:

Buildings in the centre were pretty tall (5-6 stories) and had a partially underground basement with windows which looked out below street level (into a kind of hole) So the 1st or ground floor was 1 metre or so above ground level.
The centre would be the area with more relatively intact buildings due to them being tougher, although more of these would be town admin buildings etc. where you would have slightly more leeway in terms of floor plan.

In some areas not far off the centre (e.g. just north of the station there were buildings more like this: http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/data/13030/bj/ft1g5004bj/figures/ft1g5004bj_00015.jpg


The thing about most of the bitter house to house fighting is that it usually did not take place down long, snakey corridors with nice rifle ranges along the corridor. The standard engagement distance in these places was such that an SMG, nade or sharpened spade was your best hope of survival.

In residential areas each building would have several seperate, autonomous entrances - these lead to one flight of stairs, maybe with an elevator in the more luxurious buildings (although that would usually be a steel cage -type of thing in the 40's).

So each flight of stairs would have 2,3 or 4 flats on each floor - these would be 2,3 or 4 room with a balcony, maybe very narrow, off one of the rooms. The WC and bathroom would usually be seperate and would not have exterior windows - they would be in the centre of the building, near the stairwell.

This Bulgarian property gives you a bit of an idea of the layout - although the Russian apts would have seperate kitchens. Also look at section B of this picture

Once you've planned out the building, then knock it down. The interior floors and ceilings were the first things to go from bombs, interior walls were a bit tougher, with the exterior walls going next and the stairwells, being concrete, actually being quite tough and surviving quite well nutil they fell over from lack of support. Mouseholes were common between the seperate stairwell units' flats. having said that, I have seen quite a few surviving apartment blocks with concrete stairwell floors with filler in grenade holes which were gouged out of the surface.

The exterior walls were red brick either under a layer of tan, cream or ochre stucco or bare. Either way, huge piles of red bricks all over the place are a necessity.
 
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Nestor, I knew you'd come up with a great set of materials to start this thread.

I'm not a mapper, so I'm wondering if it's as easy as I hope to take those realize those floor plans in ROED. Can you use those images as a floor texture and just draw boxes up from the walls as they are drawn on the image, and presto, instant apartment floor?

Also, I would love to see a few apartment buildings with working wire elevator boxes (that you can shoot in/out of). If we have working streetlights in maps, surely the elevators could work too?
 
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Wow Nestor! That's some excellent info for mappers to use as guidlines. I wish I could do an epic stalingrad scenario but I got no time (unless someone wants to pay me, yeah right lol). Probably the #1 thing that ticks me off is maps that don't feel authentic. This is especially critical for urban maps. StalingradKessel and Krasnyioktobr don't feel Russian to me at all, sorry. Course most players don't care about authenticness and just want some generic ruined buildings in close quarters. Sorry to also say that COD has much more authentic stock maps than RO, (authentic in their style and the way they look not necessarily their layout). If you are going to do something as important as Stalingrad, do it right I say. The guy who did "Red Square" for the mod hit it dead on, that's what I'm talking about.
 
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I want a map based on the Mamayev Kurgan. Picture this:

img_16_95_9.jpg


A map like that, without the statue and the grass, but WITH a heck of a lot shell holes, mud, trenches, machine gun positions, shell casings, and continious artillery shelling. Hooah. :D Some of the most bitter fighting happened there, and besides... RO needs a good hill map.

1:1 scale of course. ;)

The biggest problem might be making a realistic skybox - because standing on the hill gives you a nice view over the city and the Volga. That would probably be difficult to pull off.

In fact, if I could map, I would do it myself (maybe I want to start mapping, who knows).

The best thing about RO is that it's Eastern Front, so there are many scenarios you can base your map on.

Does anyone have photos of the Mamayev during / right after the battle?

edit: found two:

5628050912095000g.jpg

Soviets after recapturing the hill (it changed hands multiple times)

chuikovc.jpg
 
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Has anyone got any old screen shots of this map. You older guys seem to rave about it a lot, and I'm intrigued as to what it looked like

Think Big square. Think Germans at one side and Russians at the other side. Think Russians charging across the square.

Now give the Germans Mg42's.

Excellent map.

(I think in later versions it got turned around, so the Germans had to cross and not the Russians.)
 
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I would be willing to take up a 1:1 map on Kurgan. After I get the current projects released, I was contemplating going back to complete two more "TractorWorks" maps. Part 2 the fight for the main hall, with about 70% of the fighting indoors, with heavy support weapons etc. Part 3 the push to the river and a new "wow" factor vehicle asset. That's about a year worth of work. The main train station would be an awesome scenario as well and a 1:1 of the Grain Silo....drooly.
 
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I'd have to say the most interesting part of the battle for me is during September and October, when the Russians were always on the verge of losing the city but defended every inch courageously.
In my mind there are so many Stalingrad maps that could be relatively small in size (something like Pavlov's House for instance) but potentially epic in gameplay. There also isn't many Stalingrad maps based in the city itself, with most maps focusing on the industrial areas of the city. I'd like to see maps where you're fighting from trenches or buildings and cellars within the city.

One thing I notice with a lot of factory maps currently is that the factories themselves are mostly in pretty good shape, where as in reality most of them were bombed to hell. I'd like to see something based on the fighting for the Barrikady gun works as it was a very ferocious episode in the battle, and I'm pretty sure Nestor has some good info on that.

My only fears for a Mamayev Kurgan map would be that it might be too big, even with 25 players per side... Also, a better Grain Elevator map than the one we have at the moment would be very nice.

(I think in later versions it got turned around, so the Germans had to cross and not the Russians.)
Assuming the the map was set during the attack in September, I'd say it would be the Germans on the assault and the Russians defending.
In the game Stalingrad the entire Square and surrounding area is mapped beautifully, and from what I know about the research that went into the game, very realistically too.
 
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Heh, nice pic! Brings back memories of hours upon hours spent crafting a BSP replica of a very oddly-shaped building that required a very careful "f--- you" to Ued's wonderful grid system :rolleyes:

For several reasons, I will not be releasing an OST version of this map, although I did release an updated version of the map in the final days of the mod. One of the big reasons is my membership in Mare Nostrum. So, if you liked RO-RedSquare, you may really want to check out the MN mod. My map, MN-Tobruk, is featured in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/115589.html

Needless to say, I learned a LOT from the RO-RedSquare experience, and I planned MN-Tobruk from the ground up to avoid the typical mistakes I made in my first map (performance issues, assault paths, spawn layout, etc). I can't wait for it to release to see how all of you old-schoolers like it :) One of the objectives, after all, is Tobruk's (smaller) version of Red Square ;)
 
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Heh, nice pic! Brings back memories of hours upon hours spent crafting a BSP replica of a very oddly-shaped building that required a very careful "f--- you" to Ued's wonderful grid system :rolleyes:

For several reasons, I will not be releasing an OST version of this map, although I did release an updated version of the map in the final days of the mod. One of the big reasons is my membership in Mare Nostrum. So, if you liked RO-RedSquare, you may really want to check out the MN mod. My map, MN-Tobruk, is featured in this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/115589.html

Needless to say, I learned a LOT from the RO-RedSquare experience, and I planned MN-Tobruk from the ground up to avoid the typical mistakes I made in my first map (performance issues, assault paths, spawn layout, etc). I can't wait for it to release to see how all of you old-schoolers like it :) One of the objectives, after all, is Tobruk's (smaller) version of Red Square ;)
MN looks excellent. Tobruk looks excellent as well, very authentic looking (just like Red Square) which is what I really like. I just think it's a shame your map has been left behind in the mod...it should be in Ostfront. It's 100 times more enthralling and authentic than most TW stock maps to me. Problems with spawns and assault pathing are not that hard to sort out. It's a magnificent map, it should be ported. Actually there's nothing that says you can't even add on new areas to it and extend it and create sprawling goodness. Anyway I thought it should have been an official map from the beginning, but I'm crazy so....
 
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I think it'd be cool if someone did a map inside a bombed out factory building, then they added a lot of smoke and/or dust and reduced the view distance. It might make it a lot more atmospheric, because you wouldn't see the Germans attacking your trench until they're only a few yards away.
lol, did you read Sichartshofens first post saying about how the factory thing has already been done? Utterly ruined residential/ town center type area should be the concept. I have no detailed knowledge of this though so I can offer no specific ideas.
 
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