Squad Leader TK's with Artillery and Banning

[Soapy]

I posted in the past about the exact same thing, ie marking a usefull spot for arty, calling out that Arty was on way, typing **ARTY !! ARTY @ D7 INCOMING **** several times, then still people chose to run into it, be it on an exterme flank, behind the cap zone and on the enemy line of reinforcement, or on a group of enemy tanks that are blocking our advance, worse still,in defence maps like Snow Forest tactical etc, when you call arty in front of the front line, beyond the defend zone, and people have chosen to run there to kill Russians instead of holding the cap zone...

Some people might have a language difficulty, or perhaps have their speakers turned down, or even their text chat might be too small etc etc, but when you hear or see the arty strike, you should be pressing the O key and looking for the big mushroom ! Then you know where not to be !!

A good squad leader can end up being kicked because a few idiots repeatedly ran into friendly arty, I've seen it happen, and had it happed to me, so much so that I tend not to try to be SL unless I know the players on the server have an O key and know how to use it

 

[Avenger]

I think the problem here is that some commanders either have no idea where to put the arty, or have no idea where their team is when they place it. Most of the best players are super-aggressive, and like to play right up in the enemy's face. Because they're so far forward, it's those players that end up getting teamkilled by errant arty strikes, which is bad because it's usually those players that are doing the most good for their team.

And that is why I say it's usually the commander's fault if they get kicked for teamkilling.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

Most of the best players are super-aggressive, and like to play right up in the enemy's face. Because they're so far forward, it's those players that end up getting teamkilled by errant arty strikes, which is bad because it's usually those players that are doing the most good for their team.

HAHAHAHAHAHAA.


No.


The best players don't get killed by arty because they look at their maps and pay attention.

Most of the arty casualties are pubbers going "Oh, if I run fast enough...."

 

[Soapy]

I think the problem here is that some commanders either have no idea where to put the arty, or have no idea where their team is when they place it. Most of the best players are super-aggressive, and like to play right up in the enemy's face. Because they're so far forward, it's those players that end up getting teamkilled by errant arty strikes, which is bad because it's usually those players that are doing the most good for their team.

And that is why I say it's usually the commander's fault if they get kicked for teamkilling.

On a defence map as I mentioned, the guys that are way up front are not helping the team at all, they are however making it difficult for their own MG guys and riflemen and the poor SL with his arty, as they are too far forward and asking for accidental TK's.

You see these same guys repeatedly go too far forward, and sit there when they get flanked and the enemy start capping.

A week or so ago my team lost a fine MG player and a squad leader because of guys like that, both our MG and SL kept typing and using chat and voice ( as did most of the team ) to ask these guys to hang back in the defence zone, one guy got the message but another 4 or 5 just ignored it and the end result was a TK autokick for the 2 guys that were doing the most for the team.

A good MGer can kill and suppress a lot of enemy, forcing them to take a longer route to the objective, a good SL can call arty on large concentrations of enemy, killing 5 or 6 per salvo.. compared to a few idiots hiding behind a ridge trying to nade spam a fence or backshoot some enemy and look aggresive.

On the other hand, if a guy is new to the SL role and calls fire on the wrong place, usually he gets told rather sharpish where to put his arty ( guffaw ) by the rest of the team and if he listens and learns he will get it right the next time and we are all happy.

When defending, the enemy has to come to you, so why rush way forward and give him the advantage ? Look to see if your team has left a gap and fill it.

You might be able to get an angle on some enemy that the guys to your right can't see, and vice versa, ie you create enfilading fire and make it difficult for the enemy to advance.

Again the OP and some of the replies here, concern people running into friendly arty, not badly placed or intentionally spawn placed ( like the tard in that video ) but arty that is there for a good reason.

The use of the O key is paramount in this game, every time you stop for breath, reload your weapon, or decide to have a sip of your favourite beverage, you should be hitting "O" to see what the tactical situation is and if the MUSHROOM has appeared on the map !

Lastly :

Most of the best players are super-aggressive, and like to play right up in the enemy's face

This means that your team might not be able to tell if you are friendly or enemy, especially at medium/long range, in which case it is your fault for being where you shouldn't be, cutting your own teams lines of fire, and not defending the cap zone.

 

[Avenger]

This means that your team might not be able to tell if you are friendly or enemy, especially at medium/long range, in which case it is your fault for being where you shouldn't be, cutting your own teams lines of fire, and not defending the cap zone.

Not true. You're assuming that my teammates are where they should be, which is not always the case. Take playing the Allied side on Kaukasus for example. As soon as the match starts, I run to the mortars to defend, while the majority of my teammates perch out on the top of the courtyard or the hills around it and snipe. I'm in the capzone, fighting the enemy face-to-face and making their advance very difficult. More often than not, I get shot in the back by a teammate because he's too lazy to defend aggressively and would rather hang back on the high ground and take potshots at the Germans running up the hill. I hardly think that's my fault.

There is also a good reason to play ahead of the capzone: It wastes the enemy's time. Running from spawn to the objective takes time, but having to fight and dodge and avoid fire takes a lot more. It requires that there be some kind of bottleneck in the map where they can't sneak around you, and sometimes those bottlenecks are only far ahead of the capzone, so you work with what you've got.

Back on the subject. Arty teamkills are a lot more common when the assaulting team has the arty. K

 

[Soapy]

Not true. You're assuming that my teammates are where they should be, which is not always the case. Take playing the Allied side on Kaukasus for example. As soon as the match starts, I run to the mortars to defend, while the majority of my teammates perch out on the top of the courtyard or the hills around it and snipe. I'm in the capzone, fighting the enemy face-to-face and making their advance very difficult. More often than not, I get shot in the back by a teammate because he's too lazy to defend aggressively and would rather hang back on the high ground and take potshots at the Germans running up the hill. I hardly think that's my fault.

There is also a good reason to play ahead of the capzone: It wastes the enemy's time. Running from spawn to the objective takes time, but having to fight and dodge and avoid fire takes a lot more. It requires that there be some kind of bottleneck in the map where they can't sneak around you, and sometimes those bottlenecks are only far ahead of the capzone, so you work with what you've got.

Back on the subject. Arty teamkills are a lot more common when the assaulting team has the arty. K

 

[Avenger]

Your tone is insulting and your argument makes no sense. Goodbye.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

And that ^^ makes so much more sense.....

His tone is insulting, says the man who wrote:

It may kill some enemies, but it will also kill some friendlies and waste precious time. When this happens, I hope the bastard gets kicked. If I'm feeling cantankerous, I'll run in to the arty over and over to make him get kicked, because that's what the guy deserves.

It's people like you that get people kicked....

 

[Avenger]

Is that not what I just said? When a squad leader drops mortars on his own squad, I want him kicked. Wouldn't you?

 

[slyder73]

I think the problem here is that some commanders either have no idea where to put the arty, or have no idea where their team is when they place it. Most of the best players are super-aggressive, and like to play right up in the enemy's face. Because they're so far forward, it's those players that end up getting teamkilled by errant arty strikes, which is bad because it's usually those players that are doing the most good for their team.

And that is why I say it's usually the commander's fault if they get kicked for teamkilling.

I disagree. I think most of the "best players" are quite aware of arty placement, and frequently check their maps for cap points and for arty locations, even when they are forward and engaged, even when they are in close to the cap zone where those "best" players should be. The best players work with thier commander to avoid that location, even if it's misplaced, and the best players are good team players and let the commander know, especially if the commander is new (or worse, bad). The best players also help rally the team to use a different area of the cap point to save teamates from running headlong into friendly arty. Those best players know they need to be adaptive and can cap from many locations in a zone.

I think it's a bad player who constantly runs into their own commanders artillery and blaming the commander for putting it into a bad place. It shows a narrow way of thinking of the map. Even badly placed arty is easy to avoid if you are aware of the map and the "best" players are using VOIP to warn the team.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

HAHAHAHAHA! If he is truly dropping it on his people, he will be kicked.

IF you have to run into the arty in order to get him kicked, you're just a douchebag.

Besides - not a very smart player, are you? Instead of making a difference, you prefer to spend your time running into arty. Err.... good job?

I bet more people would rather kick you instead of the squad leader if you keep wasting reinforcements just to fulfill some notion that the capzone MUST be clear of arty. Odd man, you are.

 

[Avenger]

Why must people always take what I say completely the wrong way?...

I don't go out of my way to run in to friendly arty, you arrogant twat. But if a commander artys our capture point, I'll go there and try to capture anyway. What else should I do? Sit around and practice my Panzerfaust jumping until he stops being a jackass? No. I try to capture regardless.

I get artied by my own commander. He gets kicked. Someone else takes the commander slot. The server is a better place. Thus, commanders should get no special exemptions for teamkilling.

 

[slyder73]

Why must people always take what I say completely the wrong way?...

I don't go out of my way to run in to friendly arty, you arrogant twat. But if a commander artys our capture point, I'll go there and try to capture anyway. What else should I do? Sit around and practice my Panzerfaust jumping until he stops being a jackass? No. I try to capture regardless.

I get artied by my own commander. He gets kicked. Someone else takes the commander slot. The server is a better place. Thus, commanders should get no special exemptions for teamkilling.

See my comment a couple up. There are usually other places to cap besides a very narrow place where arty might be falling. Adapt to that and change locations. If that is not possible, help your team by watiing and not wasting re-inforcements knowing that you will likely get arty'ed by your own arty.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

I don't go out of my way to run in to friendly arty, you arrogant twat.

O RLY?

If I'm feeling cantankerous, I'll run in to the arty over and over to make him get kicked, because that's what the guy deserves.

So, to quote you:

Your tone is insulting and your argument makes no sense. Goodbye.

 

[Soapy]

Your tone is insulting and your argument makes no sense. Goodbye.

Good Morning

I thought my post did make sense, I've re read it a few times to make sure too

As for my tone being insulting, that was not my intention, and furthermore I can't see it as such, but, I might be biased when reading my own posts, so I'll accept that you find it insulting, and apologise for your percieved slight.

If ROplayer, let's say, finds that his/her SL is using arty in the wrong place, all he/she needs to do is tell them to adjust fire.

The end

 

[Esko6]

I rarely play as the commander, but in the times I have, I've never been kicked for teamkilling with artillery, despite my relative noob-ness. Sounds to me like you're doing something wrong, bud.

Try playing the attacker in Basovka. You have to bombard behind the enemy objective to stop them from getting more men to defend it, when they can't get men to defend it they quickly lose it and your team starts spawning at that objective, then your friends don't bother to think about the arty barrage still going on and just run out of the spawn towards the next objective and you are banned.

 

[Avenger]

Doomed, it's not my fault that you don't understand what I wrote, and its also not my fault that you want to argue like a 13-year-old.

Crap commanders deserve to get kicked. There's nothing more to say about the subject.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

I believe you called me an arrogant twat, no?

Did I misenterpret that?

Do 13-year olds argue with relevant quotes, no ad hominem attacks, and careful thought? Then yes, I do.

There's plenty more to say. Not sure why you think there isn't.

For example, your "tactic" of dealing with bad arty is pretty childish, I think most people would agree. Since you seem to just want to dance around and avoid answering my rebuttals, I'll ask you one question.

Who do you think the team hates more - a commander that called in bad arty (because it's in the capzone), or the guy who keeps running into it on purpose trying to get TK'd so he can kick the commander.

Answer that.

 

[slyder73]

Doomed, it's not my fault that you don't understand what I wrote, and its also not my fault that you want to argue like a 13-year-old.

Crap commanders deserve to get kicked. There's nothing more to say about the subject.

Sometimes crap commanders are still learning. THey need to be helped, not turned off of the game. Deliberately going into arty out of stubborness, some misplaced sense of enforcing vigilante justice or lack of flexibility in adjusting your plans makes you more of a problem for the team than the commanders bad arty; not least of which is the re-inforcement drain caused by going into the arty and the lowering of the team morale by causing the infighting among the teamates. The team that isn't working together and helping as a whole "unit" won't be winning.

 

[Avenger]

Who do you think the team hates more - a commander that called in bad arty (because it's in the capzone), or the guy who keeps running into it on purpose trying to get TK'd so he can kick the commander.

Answer that.

Depends on what kind of players the team is made up of.

In any case, it's irrelevant. I don't care what the team hates. I'm competitive and I'm there to win. I'll ask the commander to move the arty for the next barrage, and I will wait for until the end of the barrage for him to move it. But face it: The rounds usually only last 20 minutes, so you don't have very long to wait around. It's my job to get in the capzone and take it. If he arties the same spot after he's already been asked to move it or arties each control point one after the other, then he's obviously not listening and I might as well move on the control point and do the best I can under the circumstances. If he gets kicked, good riddance.

The problem is that for some reason, asking a commander nicely to stop dropping mortars on his teammates never seems to work. Maybe it's the servers I play on or something, but I've seen it a thousand times. They'll do it over and over and wonder why the team loses. I don't know how people could learn so slowly, but they do.

There. I've restated my position multiple times in as many different ways as I could say it. If you don't understand or don't agree, then that's your problem. Just know that there's nothing left in this horse to beat.