Squad Leader - Squad Member Relationship

[Nikto]

i was a rifleman, i was helping a sniper cover the closest capture point("*something* Square") and he died, i picked up his rifle and kept the square free of enemies for some time, til suddenly i got the order from my newly arrived Squad Leader to attack the other post.
i was quite glad that i could say "no" through the simple pressing of a button, so that he would know that he couldn't count on me there. at this point he probably should have understood that i was fulfilling a different important task. however, this is what happened: i started to get annoyed by his constant spamming of "attack here" and that eventually costed my life, and the point.

 

[hellcat420]

I have the same opinion. Can't really make use of the squad stuff as it is and I can't make use of the minimap either. It's there but it is tiny and cluttered. I keep opening the full map view to get any bearings.

Could use some clarity, filtered, simplified. I recall Battlefield 2142 having it work mostly like as suggested, and that did actually, well, work pretty well.

battlefield 2142 had one of the best squad command systems imo from commander down to squadleader commands.

 

[drswank]

i was a rifleman, i was helping a sniper cover the closest capture point("*something* Square") and he died, i picked up his rifle and kept the square free of enemies for some time, til suddenly i got the order from my newly arrived Squad Leader to attack the other post.
i was quite glad that i could say "no" through the simple pressing of a button, so that he would know that he couldn't count on me there. at this point he probably should have understood that i was fulfilling a different important task. however, this is what happened: i started to get annoyed by his constant spamming of "attack here" and that eventually costed my life, and the point.

Here's the thing, the Squad Leader doesn't know who is accepting and declining. So, when you decline an objective, it's unclear as to what the game is doing with that information.

 

[drswank]

battlefield 2142 had one of the best squad command systems imo from commander down to squadleader commands.

It just seems like they're trying to do too much with this system? Do you think they should simplify to what BF: Bad Company is doing? 4 man squads?

 

[hellcat420]

It just seems like they're trying to do too much with this system? Do you think they should simplify to what BF: Bad Company is doing? 4 man squads?

squad size is fine, just need the information to be a bit easier(such as who are your squad memebers, what your squadleader/commanders orders are) havent played around with the map or squad commands much yet but i will when i get out of work and post what ideas i come up with.

 

[TOPMO3]

I haven't played with the squad commands much either, but I agree that 2142 had some of the best squad objectives. Plus you got points for following your commander, and in turn squad leader's orders. Maybe if this would be the case here, that would help. Also the minimap and large map should show clearly, the objective your squad is attempting to take.

 

[Inuki]

I agree. Squad member - Squad leader relations needs to be easier and more identifiable.

 

[BroVVn]

I agree they need to work out the squad system. The idea of having a platoon commander and subordinate squads is great, but the whole system is just so unclear.

What even is the relationship between PL and the rest of the platoon. If a PL issues an order, is it passed to everybody? Or only to squad leaders?

If PL orders are passed to everybody, do SL orders override PL orders if given afterwards? Or vice versa?

When a play a leadership position I have no idea who is following orders and who isn't. When I play as a grunt I have no idea what my orders are. It's pretty chaotic. Orders definitely need to be more clear, so that everyone knows what they should be doing and when.

 

[drswank]

I haven't played with the squad commands much either, but I agree that 2142 had some of the best squad objectives. Plus you got points for following your commander, and in turn squad leader's orders. Maybe if this would be the case here, that would help. Also the minimap and large map should show clearly, the objective your squad is attempting to take.

I agree. Best Idea yet! i'm going to add it to OP.

 

[PanterA]

I totally agree with everything you said!!!

TW please notice that, it's really needed! he's 100% correct in every word of his! it'll make the gameplay MUCH better, if it's possible please do it!

 

[drswank]

I totally agree with everything you said!!!

TW please notice that, it's really needed! he's 100% correct in every word of his! it'll make the gameplay MUCH better, if it's possible please do it!

Spread the word my friend, spread the word

 

[neodjr]

The way I see it is if I choose to join a squad then I'm going to want to follow what that squad is doing... on the minimap, I shouldn't/couldn't care less what other members of my army are doing, I just want to see my squadmembers on there.... making it less confusing and scattered.

 

[Dr.Angryhead]

To thos asking for the platoon to be divided into smaller teams and suggested layout as far as i can tell when i play squad leader i see three teams i can order individually, FT1 FT2 and FT3, which are assault, rifle and mg teams respectivly. This is exactly what your talking about brothers in arms style yes? You can issue orders to each team individually by scrolling the mousewheel while holding B or F whilst giving orders. By default each order goes to the whole platoon but using the mousewheel you chose individual 3 man teams with different weapons.

In my opinion the current order structure and squad layout is perfect and gives what RO is famous for, a complex tactical aspect. To cut it back would be making the game less RO and more trash like the other leading FPS. I believe that whilst further streamlining of the order system before release with better notifications and hud elements will help people understand the new system, the single player tutorial will probably teach you how it works. Right now your trying to figure out a complex system with no tutorial, no manual and no documentation whatsoever for a unfinished product. Have some patience people!

PS: as a squad leader you can look on your map to see where you have given orders for each of the 3 fireteams in your platoon. A lot more is in this system which appears to have passed you all by

 

[drswank]

To thos asking for the platoon to be divided into smaller teams and suggested layout as far as i can tell when i play squad leader i see three teams i can order individually, FT1 FT2 and FT3, which are assault, rifle and mg teams respectivly. This is exactly what your talking about brothers in arms style yes? You can issue orders to each team individually by scrolling the mousewheel while holding B or F whilst giving orders. By default each order goes to the whole platoon but using the mousewheel you chose individual 3 man teams with different weapons.

In my opinion the current order structure and squad layout is perfect and gives what RO is famous for, a complex tactical aspect. To cut it back would be making the game less RO and more trash like the other leading FPS. I believe that whilst further streamlining of the order system before release with better notifications and hud elements will help people understand the new system, the single player tutorial will probably teach you how it works. Right now your trying to figure out a complex system with no tutorial, no manual and no documentation whatsoever for a unfinished product. Have some patience people!

PS: as a squad leader you can look on your map to see where you have given orders for each of the 3 fireteams in your platoon. A lot more is in this system which appears to have passed you all by

I'm not arguing with what the system is, I'm arguing with the needless complexity of it. It comes down to simplification of it. Yes, I don't mind if the Squad Leader has to put more time in to learning the system, Fine. But, the squad members should be able to login, first time (as most new players will), and as grunts should be able to GET IT, immediately. Grunts by definition are not the brains of the organisation of military, but rather the hands and the feet. Hands and feet don't think, they do. That should be the model behind what TWI does for grunts.

 

[tehjburz]

I agree with the OP. I'd like to see the system be more intuitive, especially for the actual squad members.

It's a good start, but it needs to be more obvious, and the map really needs to be de-cluttered to facilitate easier decision-making.

Speaking of all this, what kind of options does the Commander have to issue orders to squads? I've only ever played Squad Leader, not Commander.

 

[drswank]

I agree with the OP. I'd like to see the system be more intuitive, especially for the actual squad members.

It's a good start, but it needs to be more obvious, and the map really needs to be de-cluttered to facilitate easier decision-making.

Speaking of all this, what kind of options does the Commander have to issue orders to squads? I've only ever played Squad Leader, not Commander.

The commander can issue orders to each Squad Leader, much like the Squad Leader issues to his squad. Moreover, the Squad Leader is given the order much in the same (broken) way, F4 or F5 to accept or deny, which I never accept, because I'm busy trying to get my squad to do what I want to do. The system is horribly broken in every single way. No one follows orders and no one is incentivised to do so.

The commander has the same weapon loadout, including binocs and smoke.

The real ONLY difference is accessing the overhead map, will allow you to Force Respawn or use Recon plane, and use artillery (which isn't in the Beta apparently).

I believe video game critics will dock off at least a whole point for this problem.

 

[Derpus]

I agree, teams don't have much incentive to stick together right now. Public games can achieve this as we've seen from Project Reality, so there should be a way to make it work well.

 

[drswank]

I agree, teams don't have much incentive to stick together right now. Public games can achieve this as we've seen from Project Reality, so there should be a way to make it work well.

Yeah, it's a real shame that there are so many good examples of great squad implementation, and yet it's so very broken here.

 

[Nenjin]

So just some general impressions with trying to team up with a friend.

-It's hard to get into the same squad with friends without asking someone to give up something. Either you're going to be a rifle man, or someone is going to have to join your squad as a rifleman, because all the roles fill up immediately and roles are tied to squad distribution. If you're trying to pick a role, it's just going to generically stick you in a squad. So you basically get the choice between playing a role....or playing in a squad as a rifle man for the most part. Until you get a battlefield commendation and boot someone else in your squad from one of the roles. It's just very....damn there's a lot of stuff to deal with just trying to do two things at once.

-It's hard to tell where exactly you're going to spawn. I select spawn on squad leader, I see a white thing on the map light up at our team spawn point. I click team spawn point, the white thing goes away. I click back on spawn on squad leader, watch him as a spectator while I wait....and I spawn in my deployment area.

 

[MrBenn]

Having spent a lot of time as commander I have to say the squad system is so messy, the commander has no information about anyone. someone asked who the marksmen was? Surely the commander should be able to see a names list and squads? an information menu accessible for commander or something?

The whole UI, such as the map, needs a lot of polishing too it all gets so confusing.

edit: as commander i'm more than happy just feeding people information and telling people when it's clear to move up whatever. I asked... the blue dots.. that were just behind a point to move forward, they did and we took it. Feels good. I have no idea what squad that was, if they were infact a squad or anything!