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Squad Leader - Squad Member Relationship

drswank

Grizzled Veteran
Aug 10, 2011
148
87
I played a few hours as a squad member, and a few hours as a squad leader, and here are my impressions of what needs to change to make this effective:

1. "Press F4 or F5 to accept or deny": Squad members shouldn't be given the option to accept or deny anything. It should default to accept, that is how real military works. And, furthermore, accepting as default will allow the chat area to not be spammed with two lines of code explaining that your squad leader is giving you orders (over and over, repeatedly ad nauseum). And, it doesn't make sense to have to accept or deny every single order that the Squad Leader gives you. Accept should be default. F4 or F5 is nonsensical.

My roommate and I tested out how the Squad Leader and Squad Member interacts, here some impressions:

2. Officer Indication: the Squad Leader needs to have some greater indication that he is indeed "my" squad leader (chevrons in the name or just blatant "Squad Leader"?) It's too vague as to who a Squad Leader is, and who is MY Squad Leader.

3. Press T for Tactical Overlay: This should be a toggle. Not a press. Also, the icons should be smaller. I believe that the tactical overlay should be able to be left on, and not hinder the player, should he/she leave it on (for a short period, or forever). This is especially important to understanding where your squad leader wants you to be, and where to attack and defend, while moving or the like. Toggle is a better choice.

4. Tactical overlay inclusion: Squad Leader's current position. It would be nice when out of sight with the squad leader, that one can find him by using the tactical overlay. This is important because when the Squad Leader is yelling out "Follow me!", chances are that you don't know where "me" is!

5. Mini-Map: The mini-map should be square, and should be adjustable ala both zoom +/- and physical size. I remember I have yet to use the mini-map to do anything. It is in my opinion that the mini map is pointless at this point. I feel like the developers are stuck on using it as a compass, but it's not working, and the compass graphic just uses up extra real-estate that could just as well show more mini-map. Keep it simple! The mini-map should be used at all times! To see where your squad leader is, squad members, waypoint, and attack defend points. The mini map is also way too busy. I would nice to only see squad member info, not the entire 32 players.

That's all for now.

Edit: More)

6. Squad Leader should have TWO squads, not ONE: if we're talking about real WW2 squads, it doesn't make any sense to have one large "Fireteam". There should be two squads for every leader: A Fire team and Assault team. MG and certain other (non-assault) members shouldn't be apart of assaulting an objective, they should be laying down suppression, hence fireteam. the Assault team should consist of... well, people who you want to assault, such as SMG and semi-auto rifles. It doesn't make any sense to give blanket orders to your entire squad when in reality, you don't want your MG to charge in with you!? It would be nice to have two teams per squad leader - Fireteam and Assualt Team (i.e. FT1, AT1, FT2, AT2, etc). Brother's in Arms has already, imho, achieved a near perfect way of executing this.

7. XP for Completing Objectives: 2142 had some of the best squad objectives. Plus you got points for following your commander, and in turn squad leader's orders. Maybe if this would be the case here, that would help. Also the minimap and large map should show clearly, the objective your squad is attempting to take.

8. Commander and Macro Management Relationship with Squad Leaders: The way I see it, a commander should never have to leave a forward operating HQ. The commander should be able to make all decisions via the map info, and be able to assign a specific squad to a Capzone (again, no accept or deny BS). Let the Squad Leaders then determine how to best attack that point. At this point.... i'm seeing how nearly impossible it is for this game to achieve a somewhat respectable squad system before launch.
 
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I have the same opinion. Can't really make use of the squad stuff as it is and I can't make use of the minimap either. It's there but it is tiny and cluttered. I keep opening the full map view to get any bearings.

Could use some clarity, filtered, simplified. I recall Battlefield 2142 having it work mostly like as suggested, and that did actually, well, work pretty well.
 
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I agree mostly with OPer. I tried to stay with my squad, or at least my squadleader, but it is simply impossible to see who belongs to whom.

Also, I cant really figure out what I have been ordered to do. I only get "press f4.." but not really what it is I should do. Maybe it is kinda blink-and-miss.

Also, as long as orders do not clutter the screen there is no need to decline them.
One thing: It seems that sometimes you see the squadleader on the tactical overlay...
 
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I think the bottom line is: people want to play as effective squads, and the way the squad system is, it's just not possible to do so, sadly. As that was the feature I was most excited about.

Also, as an addendum, if we're talking about real WW2 squads, it doesn't make any sense to have one large "Fireteam". There should be two squads for every leader: A Fire team and Assault team. MG and certain other (non-assault) members shouldn't be apart of assaulting an objective, they should be laying down suppression, hence fireteam. the Assault team should consist of... well, people who you want to assault, such as SMG and semi-auto rifles. It doesn't make any sense to give blanket orders to your entire squad when in reality, you don't want your MG to charge in with you!? It would be nice to have two teams per squad leader. Brother's in Arms has already, imho, achieved a near perfect way of executing this.
 
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yeah, this wont be an issue for anyone that has voip and a clan full of friends

That's all I do, and you can still lose your people easily without enough information given to you in the UI. And especially since the squads are huge in comparison to whatever 4-man squad other games are doing. At the very least, adding the Squad leader's badge to the tactical overlay would be a big help.
 
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That's all I do, and you can still lose your people easily without enough information given to you in the UI. And especially since the squads are huge in comparison to whatever 4-man squad other games are doing. At the very least, adding the Squad leader's badge to the tactical overlay would be a big help.

Yep, agreed. Also, i love your signature :)
 
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Can commanders give orders to squads? That's one place where I can see the squad leader reasonably having a choice to say "no" so they can maybe tell their commander in some way it's a bad idea.

But at the squad level that does seem like an unnecessary amount of crap on the screen.

I believe it's the same thing, F4 or F5 Accept or Deny. I haven't figured out when I've been given a command though. I think it should be the same thing though, when a commander gives an order, you should (by default) accept it. It should also be clear as to what XP bonus you'll get for achieving the goal...
 
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lol no, I'm le tired.

Well, go take a nap.

ZEN FIRE ZE MISSILES.

BF2 really achieved the somewhat user-friendly way of commanding. But you're right, it is ridiculous for people to say no to orders. Though then again, it was also in BF2 and Enemy Territory, in a way, it's saying you should deserve alternate options to your objectives.

Also, what happens if it's a pub? I don't like how much we're separating clans and pub members already, like in TF2, and that game is not even bloody tactically competitive unlike RO1.
 
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Hopefully things will get more cohesive with the final release version. The training that suppose to be included may help people with unit cohesion.

Right now, there are a number of features people don't seem to know about.

For example, F for the 3D widget to order everyone or just a specific squad to go somewhere (like BiA). B + scroll wheel to scroll through the different squad for the Team Leader, and select which order (attack objective A, Defend objective B, etc).

I'm hoping there will be an easier way to figure out who's in your squad (or in your tank). Right now, the green name tags means they're in your squad. So follow the guys with the green name tags.
 
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Hopefully things will get more cohesive with the final release version. The training that suppose to be included may help people with unit cohesion.

Right now, there are a number of features people don't seem to know about.

For example, F for the 3D widget to order everyone or just a specific squad to go somewhere (like BiA). B + scroll wheel to scroll through the different squad for the Team Leader, and select which order (attack objective A, Defend objective B, etc).

I'm hoping there will be an easier way to figure out who's in your squad (or in your tank). Right now, the green name tags means they're in your squad. So follow the guys with the green name tags.

Yeah, my friend and I figured all that out, but it's more at the heart of how that commands and information is displayed to the squad.
 
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Completely agree that the squad system needs some work and the minimap is not only cluttered but the icons could use an overhaul. The icons are a minor thing but they do seem confusing and unpleasant to look at. Not saying they should be pretty but the colors are raw (pure red/blue/green/white/black etc) and I think the icons could be made more clear as to what they are marking. The legend is fine for memorizing the symbols but I think the symbols themselves could be simplified to make glancing at the map more efficient and useful.
 
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