Beta Map RSTE-Kobura
- Thread starter shadowwill
- Start date
Hi everyone, here is the latest version of Kobura.
Notable changes include increased map time and reinforcements.
Mirror 1
http://www.mediafire.com/download/pea92uvusou6tnu/RSTE-Kobura_RC2.roe
Thanks!
Notable changes include increased map time and reinforcements.
Mirror 1
http://www.mediafire.com/download/pea92uvusou6tnu/RSTE-Kobura_RC2.roe
Thanks!
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From test today
I really enjoy the map.
The "golden rule" for spawn to cap is 150 m. It seems a universal rule that works best on all maps.
I really enjoy the map.
The "golden rule" for spawn to cap is 150 m. It seems a universal rule that works best on all maps.
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[originally on the Level design thread]
Here's two spots I found during the recent Antimatter Games testing/recording.
Spot 1:
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Location on the Overhead map
Spot 2:
Screenshot 1
Location on the Overheadmap
I would also have feedback regarding a chokepoint issue (imo) at when approx half the map is captured, but I need to find a way to launch the map in solo (brb).
edit: I must be crazy, I can't find any file with "kobura" in its name, can't find anything in the My Games or Steam folder.
---
edit 2: so after lurking a bit, found the folder housing the custom maps, here's how to open them:
1) Go to:
C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\RedOrchestra2\ROGame\Cache (for Win7)
...\My Documents\My Games\RedOrchestra2\ROGame\Cache (for earlier Windows)
2) Open the file "Cache.ini"
3) Find the custom map you want to open and copy its name (made of various numbers and upper case letters)
4) Search the "Cache" folder for that name (mine was "49EF200E4..." for Kobura)
5) Open that file in the RO2 SDK (Steam > Library > Tools > Red Orchestra 2 SDK ; around 400 mb install only, takes 3+ GB of RAM when it's loaded with a map)
6) Get familiar with the controls:
- left-click (hold) = move horizontally (slow) in all 4 directions, rotate view horizontally
- left/right arrow keys = sidestep (strafe) horizontally
- right-click (hold) = "mouse look" mode, rotate view around your current position
- mouse scroll or up/down arrow keys = "zoom" (move along the axis between your current position and where you're pointing at)
- pageup/down = raise/lower altitude (move along the Y axis)
* Click on "Maximize Viewport" to put the "complete" window in fullscreen.
7) Take proper screenshots of the exact location of the bugs, level design and balance issues
Here's two spots I found during the recent Antimatter Games testing/recording.
Spot 1:
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Location on the Overhead map
Spot 2:
Screenshot 1
Location on the Overheadmap
I would also have feedback regarding a chokepoint issue (imo) at when approx half the map is captured, but I need to find a way to launch the map in solo (brb).
edit: I must be crazy, I can't find any file with "kobura" in its name, can't find anything in the My Games or Steam folder.
---
edit 2: so after lurking a bit, found the folder housing the custom maps, here's how to open them:
1) Go to:
C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\RedOrchestra2\ROGame\Cache (for Win7)
...\My Documents\My Games\RedOrchestra2\ROGame\Cache (for earlier Windows)
2) Open the file "Cache.ini"
3) Find the custom map you want to open and copy its name (made of various numbers and upper case letters)
4) Search the "Cache" folder for that name (mine was "49EF200E4..." for Kobura)
5) Open that file in the RO2 SDK (Steam > Library > Tools > Red Orchestra 2 SDK ; around 400 mb install only, takes 3+ GB of RAM when it's loaded with a map)
6) Get familiar with the controls:
- left-click (hold) = move horizontally (slow) in all 4 directions, rotate view horizontally
- left/right arrow keys = sidestep (strafe) horizontally
- right-click (hold) = "mouse look" mode, rotate view around your current position
- mouse scroll or up/down arrow keys = "zoom" (move along the axis between your current position and where you're pointing at)
- pageup/down = raise/lower altitude (move along the Y axis)
* Click on "Maximize Viewport" to put the "complete" window in fullscreen.
7) Take proper screenshots of the exact location of the bugs, level design and balance issues
Last edited:
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Here's a little feedback on a specific part of the map.
/!\ Imgur links pointing to heavy (~3 mb) PNG images /!\
When playing that map as the attacking team, I encountered this part: Blocked path.
Much to my surprise (and the surprise of 4 other teammates), there was no way to climb my way forward: we tried but we all met a solid wall.
What was left to us was the following battlefield:
In red, I drew the map limit (on the left only, to further illustrate the issue).
In yellow, I pictured the sight-line areas covered by defending positions.
In green, I depicted the two flanking paths available to the attackers.
In blue, I illustrated the chokepoints affecting flank paths.
In orange, I depicted the dangerous path at the center.
In purple, I symbolized the two rows of smoke grenades necessary to take that route at the center.
-
On the left, once the two huts/houses (with the vegetation screen) are passed the attackers are suddenly:
1) Facing an upward slope featuring:
- 2 trees with large diagonal bases (= excellent cover protection)
- rock formation on the right (leaning)
- large rock formation on the left with a slope behind it, allowing the defender to gradually increase and decrease their exposure at will.
nb: these positions are visually covered from the hut firing position by a vegetation screen (2 low trees)
2) Exposed on their right side to the entire center defensive positions (too numerous to list).
3) Ambushed by the swamp position on the left, featuring:
- a large rock formation with a retreat pocket
- 3 (4) low tree roots for partial visual+hard cover
- large thick bush for perfect visual cover, with less cover at the base so the prone position can be used efficiently.
To cross that river and take the left flanking path, attackers have to cover and clean the front, left and right flank all at the same time, without having any solid cover/firing position:
- the hut only covers a fraction of the front position.
- the left swamp position, especially thanks to its retreat pocket, will unfold exactly at the same time as the front and right position.
=> at all time, the attackers are exposed to the 3 defensive positions, making it nearly impossible for them to cover all 3 positions at the same time.
Then, if the river is crossed, it is literally an uphill battle, through a tight tunnel (not larger than a single grenade blast) ultimately leading to the very large center defensive position.
Attackers going through that path won't be able to turn it into a flanking maneuver and close the pincer: once you leave that "tunnel", you're directly at the core of the center defensive position.
-
On the right flank, there's a similar choke-point pattern: the bridge is suicidal, while the upward slope is no larger than a single grenade blast and long enough (without hard cover) that it can be used as a meat-grinder.
Its end is a little better though, with a prone-bush on the left, rock at the center and diagonal tree base on the right.
-
The low height and relative scarcity of the hard cover in that path makes it actually much more difficult than expected, simply because the defensive positions are slightly higher: it's greatly reducing the effectiveness, both in terms of visual and hard cover, of the barriers and slight slopes (for the prone attackers).
The only large hard cover is the rock on the right (from the attackers POV), that still needs a smoke grenade to be reached without getting slaughtered by the defensive positions.
Globally, that front would need 2 rows of smoke grenades to have an invasion of the trenches, when other defensive positions tend to have a 1.5 (with a few 1.0 spots) smoke-distance to cover before trench invasion.
It is an issue with public games, because in order to have 2 rows of smoke grenades, you would either need the coordination of at least 3 squad leaders (or 2 SLs + 1 TL)(= 1 smoke to get closer, 2 smokes to charge), or have players waiting while the SLs/TLs run back to an ammo pile (or die+respawn), then manage to get back to the advanced position to finally smoke and charge.
-
All maps and areas need to have their own particularities, and everything listed above aren't flaws, they are challenges.
However, the concentration of challenges should be proportionate in order to be fair and reachable for the players, otherwise the involvement will drop and the players will leave it to luck or unexciting means (ex: unavoidable artillery fire, blocking the enemy spawn exit).
The critical amount of challenges required to have a balanced, original and fun experience is never something that can be found on paper, it obviously needs to be experimented, tested, reviewed and tweaked several times before being satisfying.
That's why I don't have a "fix-it-all" suggestion ("we should cut a hole there !", "that barrier needs to be raised by 50 cm !"), but I still think something needs to be done.
(a) Increase the combat value of the attackers' huts, by slightly reducing the visual cover benefiting the defenders and adding a table/wooden wall to increase hardcover.
(b) Reduce the effectiveness of the swamp defensive position (on the far left) by making a "hole" in the retreat pocket, by allowing a one-way access (dropping down from the rock formation).
To go there, there would be a short path starting from the other side, at the tree near the first hut. There would be no sniping (of the center defensive position) from up there, just an access to swamp + sniping part of the front (on the left flank path) defensive position.
Picture
Attackers would be able to clear the swamp using grenades and then directly attack the front defensive position.
They would still get exposed to the front defensive position and the center (once they get into the swamp pocket). It would make progress difficult (2 positions to cover at the same time) but not impossible (3 positions to cover at the same time).
-
Other than that, this map is excellent and I really enjoyed playing it
The idea of making the capzones zigzag is a genius idea: it breaks the back'n'forth logic fixed on a single axis, forcing players to resets their situational awareness once a capzone is done.
It's also bringing back the ambushes and the need to progress step by step to reclaim the land between the 2 capzones: the attack "in depth", where you go at the tip of the capzone (on the other end), to deny its access to the defenders, no longer completely clear the area between the capzones (same with arty support) - once the capture is done, the defenders on the left (or right) are waiting for you, hiding behind rocks and bushes.
/!\ Imgur links pointing to heavy (~3 mb) PNG images /!\
When playing that map as the attacking team, I encountered this part: Blocked path.
Much to my surprise (and the surprise of 4 other teammates), there was no way to climb my way forward: we tried but we all met a solid wall.
What was left to us was the following battlefield:
In red, I drew the map limit (on the left only, to further illustrate the issue).
In yellow, I pictured the sight-line areas covered by defending positions.
In green, I depicted the two flanking paths available to the attackers.
In blue, I illustrated the chokepoints affecting flank paths.
In orange, I depicted the dangerous path at the center.
In purple, I symbolized the two rows of smoke grenades necessary to take that route at the center.
-
[ 1 ]
Left flank
Left flank
On the left, once the two huts/houses (with the vegetation screen) are passed the attackers are suddenly:
1) Facing an upward slope featuring:
- 2 trees with large diagonal bases (= excellent cover protection)
- rock formation on the right (leaning)
- large rock formation on the left with a slope behind it, allowing the defender to gradually increase and decrease their exposure at will.
nb: these positions are visually covered from the hut firing position by a vegetation screen (2 low trees)
2) Exposed on their right side to the entire center defensive positions (too numerous to list).
3) Ambushed by the swamp position on the left, featuring:
- a large rock formation with a retreat pocket
- 3 (4) low tree roots for partial visual+hard cover
- large thick bush for perfect visual cover, with less cover at the base so the prone position can be used efficiently.
To cross that river and take the left flanking path, attackers have to cover and clean the front, left and right flank all at the same time, without having any solid cover/firing position:
- the hut only covers a fraction of the front position.
- the left swamp position, especially thanks to its retreat pocket, will unfold exactly at the same time as the front and right position.
=> at all time, the attackers are exposed to the 3 defensive positions, making it nearly impossible for them to cover all 3 positions at the same time.
Then, if the river is crossed, it is literally an uphill battle, through a tight tunnel (not larger than a single grenade blast) ultimately leading to the very large center defensive position.
Attackers going through that path won't be able to turn it into a flanking maneuver and close the pincer: once you leave that "tunnel", you're directly at the core of the center defensive position.
-
[ 2 ]
Right flank
Right flank
On the right flank, there's a similar choke-point pattern: the bridge is suicidal, while the upward slope is no larger than a single grenade blast and long enough (without hard cover) that it can be used as a meat-grinder.
Its end is a little better though, with a prone-bush on the left, rock at the center and diagonal tree base on the right.
-
[ 3 ]
Center
Center
The low height and relative scarcity of the hard cover in that path makes it actually much more difficult than expected, simply because the defensive positions are slightly higher: it's greatly reducing the effectiveness, both in terms of visual and hard cover, of the barriers and slight slopes (for the prone attackers).
The only large hard cover is the rock on the right (from the attackers POV), that still needs a smoke grenade to be reached without getting slaughtered by the defensive positions.
Globally, that front would need 2 rows of smoke grenades to have an invasion of the trenches, when other defensive positions tend to have a 1.5 (with a few 1.0 spots) smoke-distance to cover before trench invasion.
It is an issue with public games, because in order to have 2 rows of smoke grenades, you would either need the coordination of at least 3 squad leaders (or 2 SLs + 1 TL)(= 1 smoke to get closer, 2 smokes to charge), or have players waiting while the SLs/TLs run back to an ammo pile (or die+respawn), then manage to get back to the advanced position to finally smoke and charge.
-
Suggestions:
All maps and areas need to have their own particularities, and everything listed above aren't flaws, they are challenges.
However, the concentration of challenges should be proportionate in order to be fair and reachable for the players, otherwise the involvement will drop and the players will leave it to luck or unexciting means (ex: unavoidable artillery fire, blocking the enemy spawn exit).
The critical amount of challenges required to have a balanced, original and fun experience is never something that can be found on paper, it obviously needs to be experimented, tested, reviewed and tweaked several times before being satisfying.
That's why I don't have a "fix-it-all" suggestion ("we should cut a hole there !", "that barrier needs to be raised by 50 cm !"), but I still think something needs to be done.
Possible improvements:
(a) Increase the combat value of the attackers' huts, by slightly reducing the visual cover benefiting the defenders and adding a table/wooden wall to increase hardcover.
(b) Reduce the effectiveness of the swamp defensive position (on the far left) by making a "hole" in the retreat pocket, by allowing a one-way access (dropping down from the rock formation).
To go there, there would be a short path starting from the other side, at the tree near the first hut. There would be no sniping (of the center defensive position) from up there, just an access to swamp + sniping part of the front (on the left flank path) defensive position.
Picture
Attackers would be able to clear the swamp using grenades and then directly attack the front defensive position.
They would still get exposed to the front defensive position and the center (once they get into the swamp pocket). It would make progress difficult (2 positions to cover at the same time) but not impossible (3 positions to cover at the same time).
-
Other than that, this map is excellent and I really enjoyed playing it
The idea of making the capzones zigzag is a genius idea: it breaks the back'n'forth logic fixed on a single axis, forcing players to resets their situational awareness once a capzone is done.
It's also bringing back the ambushes and the need to progress step by step to reclaim the land between the 2 capzones: the attack "in depth", where you go at the tip of the capzone (on the other end), to deny its access to the defenders, no longer completely clear the area between the capzones (same with arty support) - once the capture is done, the defenders on the left (or right) are waiting for you, hiding behind rocks and bushes.
Last edited:
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Hi Temporary
Thank you so much for taking the time to provide this feedback, I really appreciate the depth in which you have described things and how you have analysed the level and how it plays. You have brought up some very valid points and pointed out a lot of the flaws present in the map. Whilst I'm not sure how much I will be able to address, you have given me some good food for thought which I will take into consideration in future. Something that stood out to me was this :
I think this is a very important point, something might look great on paper, but until you try it you simply don't know, and might be met with a disappointing results, as I have found numerous times.
Thanks again for taking the time to write up this feedback, I think its great there are people out there willing help out with creation of levels
Thank you so much for taking the time to provide this feedback, I really appreciate the depth in which you have described things and how you have analysed the level and how it plays. You have brought up some very valid points and pointed out a lot of the flaws present in the map. Whilst I'm not sure how much I will be able to address, you have given me some good food for thought which I will take into consideration in future. Something that stood out to me was this :
I think this is a very important point, something might look great on paper, but until you try it you simply don't know, and might be met with a disappointing results, as I have found numerous times.
Thanks again for taking the time to write up this feedback, I think its great there are people out there willing help out with creation of levels
Upvote
0