RS2 Newbie and Competitive Player - Feedback

[-Moody-]

Tripwire Interactive wants to wider their audience, support the competitive scene and leave the rest happy too. That's a lot to consider. I've tried to look at the game with different perspectives. I've played CoD4 Promod, CSGO and Insurgency competitively and showed RS2 to a friend of mine. I try to give a list of issues or suggestions based on that.

THE NEWBIE

• The first thing the newbie tried is to click on the map to spawn somewhere. He wasn't sure if he selected a spawn or not. AMG/TWI implemented a very basic feature to click on certain things on the map but the feedback of it isn't very clearly. Not to mention that the maps are full of icons which overlap each other and are not prioritized with each other at all. Things get very confusing quickly.
• The newbie spawned on a helicopter and now is on the MG. Why can't I shoot with that? Honestly, I don't know but you need to use the mousewheel to actually use it. I think this needs an overhaul. I was confused too when I've tried to use it the first time. The helicopter was moving around a lot. Aiming is very hard and it seems impossible for the newbie to hit something. That's up to the taste of the developers if it's a problem or not.
• (The helicopter landed and he got out. I already explained to him that Control-Key is used for that. That's unusual he said. It's something I needed to get used to when I discovered RO myself too. It's alright for me now but I was used to the F or E key to use something.)
• The Newbie wanted to use the C4 and threw it. How do I detonate it? Oh, I have another one! He threw the second and the first one was disappearing. He did the circle again without even noticing it. There is a current problem where it is hard to notice how many explosive you actually have, when and how to detonate them and so on.
• The round ended and the next round began. He was confused that the round suddenly resets without changing the map or switching the sides. I don't know where he got used to it that way.
• The next match he tried to use the RPG but failed because he needed to aim to shot. LMB doesn't do anything right now. I remember that CoD4 had a good solution for that: Clicking the left mouse button with the RPG made it aim and shoot the first second the process was done. It wasn't beneficial or any faster. Actually, it was less predictable but less confusing.
• He asked what his objective was. I showed him the Tactical-Overlay. It was way too overwhelming for him, cluttering the screen and showing way too many things at once. I'd suggest removing 2-3 things which are displayed as 3D-Indicator. All you really need is your squad, the objectives and the Squad Leader. The rest should be up to the map imo.
• Another problem was that the game uses a lot of different buttons. A button for this and a button for that. I think this can be improved a bit. I was wondering if the "new" bayonet-mounting needs a separate key or not. Or if we really need the fast-marking even though we have binoculars and colorful smoke-grenades..

THINGS I HAD PROBLEMS WITH IN THE FIRST HOUR

• Do I need to hold the mouse button to plant mines or dig tunnels? How about the progress? How do I abort it? It's a mess currently imo
• Why do I get suppressed am I in shellshock? are questions I was asking myself not just in the first hour but generally. I think the distance when it activates needs tweaking and it needs different levels of visual and auditive impact suitable to the distance
• With a full server the sky was way too full of things. Things need some tweaking and more limitation.
• ..also it was very hard to distinguish if a helicopter or plane was right behind you or a few hundreds of meters away. The locational sound on them seems weird.
• The "Pick-Up The Weapon"-Hint is blocked by the Objective Icon when you're into a certain territory.

AS COMPETITIVE PLAYER

• ...I've played a lot of Skirmish and tried to populate the server a lot.
• Defending and camping is OP. I think player movement sounds need a huge overhaul. Right now everything does a sound which every other player can hear loud and clearly. Even looking around causes your character to make footsteps. This encourages players which notice that to camp a lot instead of playing the objective. Not to mention that defending something is very overpowered right now because you just have to wait and listen. There needs to be a way to sneak more easily. My suggestion would be making movement while being prone and crouch silently for opponents. It's very important that defending is not so overpowered in a gamemode where people can respawn in a predictable way and the enemy can simply wait and know where they will come from.
• Tunnels and SL-Spawning should be removed in Skirmish.
• This game needs a proper Spectator Mode with First Person Guns...
• A huge bonus would be a clientsided demorec with a proper first person too...

 

[NorthDumpling]

1)You can simply choose spawn on a right side, never had issues with that.
2)Again, the tutorial is not done yet as of beta, so its really debatable that you really couldnt find a way to shoot an MG. As well as its hard to hit anything, wasnt neat in real life either.
3)During entering a vehicle you have an icon appearing with a button you must to push in order to get in(correct if I'm wrong)
4)There is a way to get count of your C4 by simply checking out tactical view, no need to try over and over again.

Dont your friend know that an RPG cant shoot when lowered down? Come in, its not that hard.

The rest of the troubles as well as listed above you and your friend expiriencing because there are no proper training yet as well as all the hints.
And no, you're not supposed to know everything from a start just because you got used to it somewhere else. Take this into a consideration.

 

[Lemonater47]

You told him it was the control key to get out of the helicopter?

Its not. By default it's the F key. You have to change the controls to the RO2 setup for it to be control. RS2 defaults are better than RO2 defaults.

 

[Beskar Mando]

Ironically the keybinds are what I used for RO2/RS...

I don't think I've really had any of these problems, probably due to this point being totally used to everything. With 200~ hours in-game as of now, everything is second-nature.
I get a huge IOM vibe from playing the game, something I really like. This probably could further attribute as to why I don't have the problems.

The newbie spawned on a helicopter and now is on the MG. Why can't I shoot with that? Honestly, I don't know but you need to use the mousewheel to actually use it. I think this needs an overhaul. I was confused too when I've tried to use it the first time. The helicopter was moving around a lot. Aiming is very hard and it seems impossible for the newbie to hit something. That's up to the taste of the developers if it's a problem or not.

I probably had to tell this to people about 100+ times, yeah something that needs to be addressed, though to be fair I imagine a tutorial will cover it.

The helicopter landed and he got out. I already explained to him that Control-Key is used for that. That's unusual he said. It's something I needed to get used to when I discovered RO myself too. It's alright for me now but I was used to the F or E key to use something.

It's F... always has been for RS2. Use key.

The Newbie wanted to use the C4 and threw it. How do I detonate it? Oh, I have another one! He threw the second and the first one was disappearing. He did the circle again without even noticing it. There is a current problem where it is hard to notice how many explosive you actually have, when and how to detonate them and so on.

The Beta build for some reason was unstable. The issue only appeared recently, it's a bug. Pressing T shows where they are. Icon with a meter indicator.

The round ended and the next round began. He was confused that the round suddenly resets without changing the map or switching the sides. I don't know where he got used to it that way.

Server setting, I highly doubt many servers will use it. Not to mention the round as well as win/loss are shown when pressing tab.

The next match he tried to use the RPG but failed because he needed to aim to shot. LMB doesn't do anything right now. I remember that CoD4 had a good solution for that: Clicking the left mouse button with the RPG made it aim and shoot the first second the process was done. It wasn't beneficial or any faster. Actually, it was less predictable but less confusing.

Actually a decent idea, not bad, I'd be up for that.

He asked what his objective was. I showed him the Tactical-Overlay. It was way too overwhelming for him, cluttering the screen and showing way too many things at once. I'd suggest removing 2-3 things which are displayed as 3D-Indicator. All you really need is your squad, the objectives and the Squad Leader. The rest should be up to the map imo.

Client setting wouldn't be too bad fully custom HUD would be nice, though I don't find it cluttered.

Another problem was that the game uses a lot of different buttons. A button for this and a button for that. I think this can be improved a bit. I was wondering if the "new" bayonet-mounting needs a separate key or not. Or if we really need the fast-marking even though we have binoculars and colorful smoke-grenades..

I use it more than binocs, smokes I find practically useless unless I want arty on top of myself.
Bayonet key isn't the fast mark key and it shouldn't be, that's B (or Z, depending on if you mean spotting or marking as SL). In either case they have their own key. I prefer it this way, they're not all over the place either. Literally to the left or the right of one another.

Do I need to hold the mouse button to plant mines or dig tunnels?

It does prompt you, don't know what the problem is.

How about the progress? How do I abort it? It's a mess currently imo.

Can you elaborate?

Why do I get suppressed am I in shellshock? are questions I was asking myself not just in the first hour but generally.
I think the distance when it activates needs tweaking and it needs different levels of visual and auditive impact suitable to the distance

Don't know what you're talking about, you mean the distance from what's causing it?

With a full server the sky was way too full of things. Things need some tweaking and more limitation.
..also it was very hard to distinguish if a helicopter or plane was right behind you or a few hundreds of meters away.
The locational sound on them seems weird.

I don't have much trouble with this, though the sounds have constantly been changing, and the Doppler effect they added I believe has been tweaked a fair amount.They're subtle but they are there.

The "Pick-Up The Weapon"-Hint is blocked by the Objective Icon when you're into a certain territory.

Screenshot of this would be nice, never seen this.

...I've played a lot of Skirmish and tried to populate the server a lot.
Defending and camping is OP. I think player movement sounds need a huge overhaul.
Right now everything does a sound which every other player can hear loud and clearly.
This encourages players which notice that to camp a lot instead of playing the objective.

This was the case with RO2/RS. Though with RS2 factions have different sounds,
further the sound itself as well as volume changes based on stance, sprinting, and ironsights. If anything sounds have gotten quieter in my opinion.

Even looking around causes your character to make footsteps.

Same with RO2. I forgot how much but it's around 30-60 degrees.
Not how skirmish works, you cannot win by camping 90% of the time.

Not to mention that defending something is very overpowered right now because you just have to wait and listen. There needs to be a way to sneak more easily. My suggestion would be making movement while being prone and crouch silently for opponents. It's very important that defending is not so overpowered in a gamemode where people can respawn in a predictable way and the enemy can simply wait and know where they will come from.

VC/PAVN currently do not make much noise, in comparison. Again the noise level can be adjusted.

Tunnels and SL-Spawning should be removed in Skirmish.

Definitely something I agree with. Doesn't make much sense with such small maps.

This game needs a proper Spectator Mode with First Person Guns...

I talked to [AMG]Dibbler67 a month or so ago, basically put it like this:Replication issues... Need a big overhaul of a lot of things, if it was even feasible.The way it currently is set up is there are two different sets up of arms and animations, the third and first person.Only you can see the first person, while the third person can only be seen by others. You'd have to talk to someone who knows more about it, I don't. Suffice to say the least, it would cause more problems than it would fix. It's a nice touch, but I never saw a solid reason for it to be included.

A huge bonus would be a clientsided demorec with a proper first person too...

Not sure what you're going on about here.

 

[-Moody-]

1)You can simply choose spawn on a right side, never had issues with that.

You're very familiar to the RO-Franchise so it doesn't surprise me that you don't have a problem with it. It is about the newbie. I know that there are two ways to select a spawn point right now. But I think all this space on the right side could be used for something else.. like a list of your squad, the countdown timer for the respawn etc. There is a lot of room for improvement.

2)Again, the tutorial is not done yet as of beta, so its really debatable that you really couldnt find a way to shoot an MG. As well as its hard to hit anything, wasnt neat in real life either.

I'm surprised that I get a reply on this like that. I've played the beta like 20 hours and I've seen many people asking how the MG on the helicopters work. Beskar Mando confirms that too...

4)There is a way to get count of your C4 by simply checking out tactical view, no need to try over and over again.

I know, but honestly it's not really conspicuous and you have to search for it. Even the tactical view itself could confuse people. But the number of C4 won't help either. When you check and see that you have two, you'll try to throw two C4's but the first one disappears every time anyway.

You told him it was the control key to get out of the helicopter? Its not. By default it's the F key. You have to change the controls to the RO2 setup for it to be control. RS2 defaults are better than RO2 defaults.

Oh, I'm sorry. That's my mistake. I forgot that I've switched some controls immediately after starting the game the first time. Every reply to this point is a waste of time. I'll delete that one.

I use it more than binocs, smokes I find practically useless unless I want arty on top of myself.
Bayonet key isn't the fast mark key and it shouldn't be, that's B (or Z, depending on if you mean spotting or marking as SL). In either case they have their own key. I prefer it this way, they're not all over the place either. Literally to the left or the right of one another.

I think the fast SL Marking makes binoculars and the purple smoke redundant because it's much faster and you don't have to switch to any eqiupment while exposing yourself. And it adds another key to your keyboard which could and should be reduced.

It does prompt you, don't know what the problem is.

Really? Me and my friend haven't noticed that. Not to mention that you don't have to hold any mouse button or sometimes you have to.. or not. I don't really know. Right now it is inconsistent. Really! Try out right now on the Training-Map with mines. I think there should be a progress-bar while digging the tunnels etc.

Don't know what you're talking about, you mean the distance from what's causing it?

Yeah. Right now the distance is so wide that you don't even know where the shellshock is coming from and what is causing it. Also there just seems to be a shellshock=1 or 0. Nothing inbetween which is weird too.

I talked to [AMG]Dibbler67 a month or so ago, basically put it like this:Replication issues... Need a big overhaul of a lot of things, if it was even feasible. [...]

Yeah, I know.. it's hard to impement right now (in UE). But it would be better for e-sports, making videos, learning things from others (newbies!) and would make spectating more interesting.

Not sure what you're going on about here.

I mean a clientsided demo-recording where you can replay your point of view again. Good for e-sport, good for video making, good for everyone. Not just a serversided demorec without first person.

 

[Frostedfire]

Ironically the keybinds are what I used for RO2/RS...
I talked to [AMG]Dibbler67 a month or so ago, basically put it like this

that explains most of the iom feel

Do I need to hold the mouse button to plant mines or dig tunnels?

It does prompt you, don't know what the problem is.

It's not intuitive what to do after you lmb. do you keep clicking to dig? do you hold the button down? do you click once and then take your hands off the keyboard? the latter is my preferred method because otherwise the guy is prone to having a senior's moment and cancelling the dig.

it's like playing a medic in tf2/overwatch and not being able to see people's health bars. There is no visual feedback of if you're doing anything. you click to start digging, and an unknown amount of time later a tunnel spawns. Until then you have to watch a guy hit the ground over and over like a QTE

Not sure what you're going on about here.

he wants a replay system to review/record frag videos on, though you already answered the 'proper first person' thing prior

Dont your friend know that an RPG cant shoot when lowered down? Come in, its not that hard.

And no, you're not supposed to know everything from a start just because you got used to it somewhere else. Take this into a consideration.

 

[1conu59]

I talked to [AMG]Dibbler67 a month or so ago, basically put it like this:Replication issues... Need a big overhaul of a lot of things, if it was even feasible.The way it currently is set up is there are two different sets up of arms and animations, the third and first person.Only you can see the first person, while the third person can only be seen by others. You'd have to talk to someone who knows more about it, I don't. Suffice to say the least, it would cause more problems than it would fix. It's a nice touch,

but I never saw a solid reason for it to be included.

You don't see any solid reason ?

I give you this one :

Now watching a game become as important as playing it, like in tournament for example !

"it would cause more problems than it would fix..." haha sorry this one always made me laugh a bit...

YES like every features it needs work and time to be built but also conviction !

BTW It has already been implemented on other game with similar technology (UE3)) than Ro2 like America's Army: Proving Grounds.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175019082

It's now crucial for tripwire to fix this problem which is around here for so much time it became a TOP google Search :

 

[Kittenmittens]

Thanks for taking the time to write up your feedback. Perspective from players new to the franchise is greatly appreciated while we look at various things like how to inform new players about game mechanics and such and we of course want to hear impressions of vets in fps as well.

 

[Lemonater47]

Chivalry medieval warfare had a first person spectator. UE3 game.

Emphasis on the word "had". Buggy as hell. You could see the arms and everything and what they were doing. They were just never really doing what the actual player was doing himself. Failing to track the players movement resulting in teleporting, the hands doing the animations at the wrong time, the wrong animations or not even bothering to animate, the first person customisation not matching up and things like that.



On the topic of the scroll wheel to do things. RO players should know the scroll wheel should do. Right? Well even Beskar Mando with his 200 hours didn't figure out how to fly the cobra from the gunners position. Turns out you had to scroll down until your character grabbed the controls. The developers over and over again kept telling this feature was in the game. They didn't tell us how (probably didn't know how tbh) but they kept assuring us it was there. After me playing for 90 hours I accidentally managed to take control as the gunner. My scroll wheel is slightly broken and sometimes gets stuck part way through scrolling. Scrolled it down a bit more which made my character grab the flight controls. I banked left, I banked right and then immediatly exploded when the helicopter hit an invisible wall at 120 knots. But I did have control.


But yes. A tutorial will surely cover all this.

 

[Lemonater47]

Wot?

You don't change position using the scroll wheel. You change what you are doing.

In the Huey the scroll wheel is to grab the gun and let go of the gun. Changing positions is the number keys. That's changing what seat you are in.

Same with cobra. Scroll forwards to grab the gun. Scroll back to let go of the gun. Scroll back again to grab the flight controls. It's not changing seats. The gunner has his own flight controls. Flying the helicopter from the gunner position. Yes that is a thing.

Not quite sure what you mean here. The number keys are already in use.

 

[Skyrilla]

The one thing and pet peeve I have is the way you destroy tunnels...

HOLD USE TO DESTROY? WHAT THE BLEEP IS THAT BLOOP?! Throw in a nade! C4! Any explosive! NOT "PRESS F TO PAY RESPECTS."

Seriously AMG, please change this!

 

[Beskar Mando]

Don't know why they changed it, only demolition charges and interacting with the tunnel to dismantle it. Chucking a grenade at it makes it pointless.

 

[-Moody-]

HOLD USE TO DESTROY? WHAT THE BLEEP IS THAT BLOOP?! Throw in a nade! C4! Any explosive! NOT "PRESS F TO PAY RESPECTS."

Haha, yeah. I remember the first thing I'Ve tried to destroy a tunnel is throwing a nade into it. Personally, I think that two nades OR one instance of heavy explosive like C4 should destroy the tunnel but this might need some testing. They could even keep the "Press F to destroy"-Mechanic but make it way, way more slower.

 

[kapulA]

Welp, 2 nades sounds okay, but perhaps make it so they actually have to go down into the tunnel hole, to discourage people grenading it from a way away, forcing them instead to get right above it and just drop them down?

 

[-Moody-]

Welp, 2 nades sounds okay, but perhaps make it so they actually have to go down into the tunnel hole, to discourage people grenading it from a way away, forcing them instead to get right above it and just drop them down?

Yep, this is what I meant by "throwing a nade into it".

 

[jacknine]

I am an old Battlefield Vietnam player, I played that game to death, loved it.

It certainly wasnt the most realistic war sim!, but it was a LOT of fun and that's why I played it for so long, it could be intense, but also produced many comedy moments.

So I got a little excited when I heard about RS2, could it be the successor I had been waiting for?...I wonder if any of the Dev's played BFV ?


Well, I got my invite yesterday and fired the beta up late last night , around 10:30pm GMT and I played for a good while, and I LIKE!, I LIKE! , it did take me back !

The maps I played were superb, it felt like a lot of work had gone into them, lots of different routes, places to hide or take cover.

The ambience, even at this stage is great, it was really immersive running through the undergrowth whilst hearing the 'whomp' of the choppers overhead (im hoping they will have speakers at some stage).

really looking forward to seeing how this one develops, keep it fun dev's!

 

[Lemonater47]

See now even battlefield players love the RO style of First person shooters.

 

[jacknine]

See now even battlefield players love the RO style of First person shooters.

Well, I own RO, RO2, Rising storm and I enjoyed them but Vietnam is my favourite theatre, apart from BFV I didnt know of any others in that setting.

I played BF 1942 and a bit of BF2 , but none after that.

The majority of my gaming time years back was spent in WWII online, good times...

 

[-Moody-]

What's wrong with battlefield players liking the RO-Franchise, especially people who liked the old ones? This statement seems so childish, I need to take a break! And the thread derail is real!