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[Request] M60E4 / Light Machine Guns

Sammyfoxy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2011
10
27
0
UK
[Request] M60E4 / Light Machine Guns

I think the addition of LMGs Would greatly benefit Killing Floor by adding mid and high tier weapons that each, with their own advantages and disadvantages can support the other perks in eliminating specimens.

Pro's:


- Powerful
- No reloading allows for uninterrupted crowd control

Con's:


- Only 100 bullets
- Expensive
- Large recoil

An example of balancing for individual LMGs could be the following;

Tier 1

SAW M249
- Low Damage
- High Rate of Fire

Tier 2

Bren LMG
- Medium Damage
- Medium Rate of Fire

Tier 3

M60E4

- High Damage
- Low Rate of Fire

In my opinion, it would also bring a balanced and enjoyable alternative to the people who simply use the AA12 & Hunting Shotgun to eliminate everything beyond Wave 5 and may, inspire more than 9.4% of all players to want to play and win long games on Hard, Suicidal and Hell on Earth.

Thus, freshening the gameplay and ultimately making more people play.

Thankyou for your time in reading this.

Sam
 
Last edited:

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,770
211
0
Michigan (USA)
The LMG debate has been around forever, but balancing is always the kicker - why use the scar and reload 12 times when you can use the M60 and reload 2 times? And the other problem is that while Only having 2 clips limits ammo, those clips would end up being.. 60 to 100 shots each? And reloading makes KF dangerous - you don't get mauled by clots when ur clip is full, you get mauled when ur empty and reloading. Not that an LMG wouldn't be fun, just... OP. The only way i see it working is with artificial limitations, like "you must be crouched for iron sights" or sommat.

EDIT: Also: what u mean by firepower? Is that rate of fire? Ammo? Normally i'd equate firepower and damage so...
 

Sammyfoxy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2011
10
27
0
UK
The LMG debate has been around forever, but balancing is always the kicker - why use the scar and reload 12 times when you can use the M60 and reload 2 times? And the other problem is that while Only having 2 clips limits ammo, those clips would end up being.. 60 to 100 shots each? And reloading makes KF dangerous - you don't get mauled by clots when ur clip is full, you get mauled when ur empty and reloading. Not that an LMG wouldn't be fun, just... OP. The only way i see it working is with artificial limitations, like "you must be crouched for iron sights" or sommat.

EDIT: Also: what u mean by firepower? Is that rate of fire? Ammo? Normally i'd equate firepower and damage so...
Firstly how many threads do you see around this forum directly debating about LMG's? If you search for Light Machine Guns in General Modding Discussion you will find no thread debating about them except this one so I don't see how you can say its been debated forever.

To address your first question you would reload 14* times with the SCAR because you get 20 / 14 or 300 bullets rather than 100 / 0 or 100 bullets with the most damaging LMG and this does not include your AK47 or Bullpup secondary weapon for additional ammo, therefore a lack of reloading sounds over powered but I think a lack of ammo makes it more than balanced.

The LMG would also be your only weapon due to its weight aside from the default pistols and knife.

So the dangerous thing would be ammo conservation, which is much more dangerous than simply reloading a lot I would say.

And there could be some kind of artificial limitation, I'm not worried too much about that I just want to see more heavy weaponry.

And I've edited my post to say Rate of Fire thanks.
 

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,770
211
0
Michigan (USA)
Heres the thing - i've been part of this forum since last december. I don't look at anything but the modding section. Yet i've still seen plenty of posts talking about LMG's and Chainguns and Bren Guns... In the end, the people have said no (apart from that mounted chain gun someone made somewhere for mission maps....). But to answer you're ammo argument - there are only two ways i die as a commando on difficulties other than HoE. 1) The occasional Random zed mob i didn't see coming in time, and 2) FP and groups of heavy hitting enemies. The second one is the important one. Because i can take out clots headshot by headshot with a scar, but you need to reload to kill a FP, especially with more than 2 people. Not with an LMG - the whole clip goes into it. Which means that the firerate would have to be artificially limited - if i have 1 reload, total of 200 rounds, i'd single shot small stuff with one, see the big guy (you can usually tell when they're about to appear) reload, and empty 100 rounds. The remainder goes to the little stuff. There's no challenge. A scar with 100 round clips, even just 2, is impossible to beat!

I'd have to impose 2 limitations on LMGs to make them close to feasable - low fire rates, make them a chattering gun instead of the fire rate they really have, and you throw away remaining ammo when u reload. Then i could give you 300 rounds in 2 clips and the gun and say it was as balanced as possible. and it'd still be tier 6 commando.
 

Sammyfoxy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2011
10
27
0
UK
And I really dont mind how nerfed or changed around the LMGs are I just want to wield one in this game.
 

Sammyfoxy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 4, 2011
10
27
0
UK
Surely someone likes LMG's as well as me, cant someone just make one as a random mutator even if it OP I just want it for fun and thats what gamings about is it not?
 

Dwragon90

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 8, 2011
18
8
0
lol 69!

I'd love to see some LMG's in Killing Floor too although I do understand the whole balance thing when comparing it to Commando. =[ It's not fairrrs because I really like Sammy's idea.

At the very least, a mutator with LMG's would be very awesome, and definately better than nothing!
 
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Reactions: halbridious

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,770
211
0
Michigan (USA)
Sure its fun, but its not KF, and i'd rather see mods that might get whitelisted, because really making an lmg would take a while and not be whitelisted.
BTW, Could you please use the "EDIT" button? It saves space in the forums and allows accurate counting of posts. Please don't triple post. Thank you.
 

Lucidius134

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2011
405
168
0
Firstly how many threads do you see around this forum directly debating about LMG's?
Several.

Bren - http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=49289&highlight=bren

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=49415&highlight=bren

No one's ever made a mutator though because no one's ever come to terms on how they'de be balanced, or the suggestion was poorly made.

If you search for Light Machine Guns in General Modding Discussion you will find no thread debating about them except this one...
Because no one has made a mutator for it.

Most people post their suggestions and ideas, get this, in the Ideas and Suggestions section, which isn't in the General Mod or even the Mutator section. Try searching in the Suggestions section for suggestions, you might get better search results.

That said, I was thinking of reviving the debate the other day because I think it'de be a fun little addition to support.
 
Last edited:

Meatwadjenkins

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2011
107
12
0
Balmorhea, Tx
Here is a idea for balancing them. Have them overheat quickly forcing you to shoot in short burst or suffer damage from the heat of the gun. The slow realoding and expensive ammo would also help in balancing it. :D I am just trying to help so if this has been posted before don't get mad at me.
 

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,770
211
0
Michigan (USA)
See theres another balance idea, which is nice, but thats my problem - its an artificial limitation on a weapon. I don't wanna play a Saw without feeling the power of the SAW! and i've never felt a game balance that right. either they feel bad and UP or horribly OP. Now, if you can come up with a way of balancing, not just straight nerfing, i'd be interested, even help out if i could, but.... Thats gonna be hard.
 

Lucidius134

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2011
405
168
0
Now, if you can come up with a way of balancing, not just straight nerfing, i'd be interested, even help out if i could, but.... Thats gonna be hard.
I'll make a post later today but i'de need some opinions no support's playstile before I throw this all together.

I've programmed guns for Second Life (Bad game, don't play it), and my LMG's were balanced enough that they were useful but not great. I'll post more in a bit.
 

masteriamamind

Active member
Oct 12, 2010
497
113
43
Evil Lair
Instead of balancing just make KF harder with some of the available mods and mutators. Mods like custom shop and server perks make this a great possibility without messing up the "real" game. Most of the classes in the game have a Omega weapon, be nice if Comms had one.

AA12
M32 (law?)
M99 (about freaking time)
Chainsaw

Sometimes you just want to rip in to a wall of trash with a big *** gun! Need lmg. Hell ,even a AK with a 100 round drum would scratch that itch.
 

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,770
211
0
Michigan (USA)
yeah, didn't they say right on thread it was dead :( And an LMG as a commando tier 4 might be less OP than as a set of LMGs, like the first post. I think you would have to make it so that its stats are weak with a lvl 1 commando, but rather nice as a lvl 6. The other thing this reminds me of is the PPSH mod, which had a huge drum mag but spat it out in like, 3 seconds, making it really hard to get accurate kills. So an LMG would prolly have to be full-auto only. a mag of 60 and relatively weak would make it expensive but lame as a lvl 1 commando, but give it closer to 80 and decent damage for a lvl 6, allowing for lots of cleanup...