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Rename classic to 'defenders win'

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LordKhaine

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 19, 2005
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#1
Anyone who has played classic mode for a few maps already knows what I mean, but for the rest of the readers I shall explain.

The balance in any map in classic in which the attacker has to cross any expanse of often space... is totally screwed. And I stress the word totally. Less speed, and far less stamina... surely anyone can see how this affects the attacker more than the defender?

Some of the maps already were quite infamous for the occasional tricky objective, in some cases these are now so imbalanced as to be a joke. I have played grain elevator a good dozen or more since the patch, I've only ever seen axis win once. Is that balance?

Red October Factory... I sadly witnessed an entire match, consisting of two rounds in classic, in which I didn't step into the cap zone for 12 minutes in the first round. I consider myself fairly good at attacking and sneaking into objectives, but I was entirely unable to since I had to rest at least once on the way to the cap zone to stand any chance of getting there. Needless to say we lost the match without taking A. I've seen similar since.

The solution? Either increase speed or stamina for players, or reposition the spawns in classic. Because right now half the maps are a total joke in classic. Who wants to spend 40 minutes sitting in a spawn getting shot the second you advance? The answer is.. no-one...
 
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#3
Nikita said:
Mamayev is 'attackers win'.
Click to expand...


Mamayev being attackers win is due to somewhat poor spawns. Yet, for some reason it could be due to Russian teams with less experienced players, I mean, I can sit behind a bunker or in a trench, dropping Ruskies with the 98k without a problem and I see bullets wizzing past me, none hitting me, its a bit silly :p

But yeah, going back to the topic, I agree, more stamina would be nice.
 
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#4
I've seen Russians win on Mamayev plenty of times. It's always a fantastic, nail-biting close finish, too. Best map in the game by far.

I've seen attackers win Apartments too, though not so often. There are a lot of newer players around at the moment and successful tactics have changed a bit - people are still working out how to attack in Classic.
 
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#6
LordKhaine said:
Anyone who has played classic mode for a few maps already knows what I mean, but for the rest of the readers I shall explain.

The balance in any map in classic in which the attacker has to cross any expanse of often space... is totally screwed. And I stress the word totally. Less speed, and far less stamina... surely anyone can see how this affects the attacker more than the defender?

Some of the maps already were quite infamous for the occasional tricky objective, in some cases these are now so imbalanced as to be a joke. I have played grain elevator a good dozen or more since the patch, I've only ever seen axis win once. Is that balance?

Red October Factory... I sadly witnessed an entire match, consisting of two rounds in classic, in which I didn't step into the cap zone for 12 minutes in the first round. I consider myself fairly good at attacking and sneaking into objectives, but I was entirely unable to since I had to rest at least once on the way to the cap zone to stand any chance of getting there. Needless to say we lost the match without taking A. I've seen similar since.

The solution? Either increase speed or stamina for players, or reposition the spawns in classic. Because right now half the maps are a total joke in classic. Who wants to spend 40 minutes sitting in a spawn getting shot the second you advance? The answer is.. no-one...
Click to expand...


It should be renamed Simulator, or Game.
 
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#8
AmazingMilto said:
Mamayev being attackers win is due to somewhat poor spawns. Yet, for some reason it could be due to Russian teams with less experienced players, I mean, I can sit behind a bunker or in a trench, dropping Ruskies with the 98k without a problem and I see bullets wizzing past me, none hitting me, its a bit silly :p

But yeah, going back to the topic, I agree, more stamina would be nice.
Click to expand...

Russian on this map= you die when you expose yourself at all
I mainly play german especially on this map, but one time I decided to go to the russian team and it was murder. every time you poped your head up and tried to shoot a german you'd get shot yourself.
 
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#10
PvtBloody said:
That's why I'm against Attack/Defense maps. I prefer the maps where each side starts with no objectives held (Pavlov, Barracks, FallenFighters). Not that these maps are perfectly balanced, but still they are more fair.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think you'll find that Pavlov's House and Barracks don't rank very high on anyone's list of favorite maps... Though neutral maps may make balancing easier, they're just not quite as immersive and often end up as a squabble over the one or two 'critical' objectives as opposed to a grand battled waged over the entire map.
 
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#11
Nikita said:
Unfortunately, I think you'll find that Pavlov's House and Barracks don't rank very high on anyone's list of favorite maps... Though neutral maps may make balancing easier, they're just not quite as immersive and often end up as a squabble over the one or two 'critical' objectives as opposed to a grand battled waged over the entire map.
Click to expand...

I've always thought you could make a good neutral map, by making the center a bit chaotic and somewhat flexible. Imagine FF except B/D/C are always open and if you own 2 out of the 3 you can attack A/E (depending on your team). Capturing A/E is an instant win for your team even if you only own 2 out of 3 of B/D/C. Fighting would be a lot more flexible, although the ideal map setting for this isn't FF, you'd want B/C/D to be 3 building separated a bit more.
 
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#14
I do like Classic mode, but I have to agree, the stamina seems ridiculously low. I wouldn't mind sprinting slower if I could at least sprint for longer.

Im still actually finding it hard to decide which I prefer, Realism or Classic mode. I like Classic for its weapon mechanics, loadouts and no bandaging, but I think the movement speed of Realism is better.
 
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#15
Agreed on the Stamina. I am actually okay with the slow speed but the stamina is pretty low and at least on Grain Elevator it is destroying the map balance because the attackers are way to slow at the first 2 caps.

I played the other maps in classic and I cant agree on the thread title here. It really depends on team who will win a map. In classic mode it is way more important that people use the stuff they have wisely. You need people who give you fire support with machineguns, you need Squad Leaders who use smoke and you need a commander who is not also using smoke but also the artillery efficent. Beside those individual efforts the entire team must play for the caps and not for the kills. Especially the attacking team is also suffering a lot because people simply dont go to the cap zones and attack them.
 
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#16
Agree completely , less stamina hurts attackers the most and should be increased.

As for Mamayev it's balance is fine , the difference is that Soviet's must have at least decent commander to win , while Germans not so much.All in all , if 2 experienced teams fighting on Mamyev , Soviet's have an edge.If 2 free for all teams are fighting , Germans have an edge.It's so easy sometimes to get trough unguarded trenches with MP-40 and annihilate all hostiles who are distracted by your comrades that are attacking from the front.
 
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#17
because this mode is the most realistic when it comes to actual tactics, on most public servers everyone plays for its own and thats why the attackers mostly lose...pretty simple. However if you have a dedicated commander who calls arty and recon plane and players who move in groups not alone you will win
 
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#19
Nikita said:
Mamayev is 'attackers win'.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree on that one.... I've only played the map a couple of times so far, but whenever I played Russians (Defence) many of the spawns are set up in a pretty crappy way. There's this one spawn point where you spawn in some broken down bunker and the moment I stepped outside of the bunker, I got mowed down, as did a number of other team mates.

And I think there was another spawn past that where I spawned inside a doorway somewhere (again I can't remember cuz I only played the map a couple of times so far) and the moment I took three steps forward (literally three steps out the doorway) I had bullets flying by my head and team mates dropping around me..... how the hell is one supposed to defend the objective when you can't even get out of spawn safely?

Other times, I'd see the Germans taking a cap, I checked my map to see where I needed to go, then I rush to the cap zone.... I checked my map again and I see I'm in the cap area.... yet there was no cap marker on my screen and the Germans capped anyways...... I was in the cap area on the map, yet I wasn't in the cap zone?

Hell, I even ran into the bunkers/tunnels in the cap zone area to see if you had to be underground in order to be in the cap area, yet nothing.....

So far, I'm not liking that map at all no matter which side I take. I've heard plenty talking about how great the long distance combat is, yet all I see are people running around out in the open all exposed with little cover and trenches that lead you right back out into the open again.... and if you pop out of the trenches to see where you are or to shoot back, you stick out like a sore thumb and get killed.

And playing it in Classic mode is even worse than in other game modes.

Quite frankly, Classic doesn't fit with RO2 at all. Classic could work a lot better if there were transports to help these fat guys get from point A to point B without getting winded and stopping for a breather..... but until then.....
 
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