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Remove Team Tanking

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#41
FatPartizan said:
Solo tanking should die.
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Your english looks pretty good to me :)

I just cannot imagine, how could it be possible to drive tank and aim both gun and MG at one time. If you drive in gunner sit it would be very little FOV, if you drive in driver sit, how would you aim? <= only by arcade-style crosshair (no crosshairs pls in RO)
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The gunner has the best FOV of anyone in the tank, MG would be a problem.

EDIT: could leave the MG position as manable and allow soldiers to man it.

How about an option on the class screen where you can select between "team tanker" or "solo tanker". Team tanker is the same as it is right now, but if you select solo tanker, your tank is locked as soon as you get in it.
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That would be the worst solution, it solves nothing and makes things even worse. It would have to be a server side option, everyone solos or everyone teams.

No, to solo tanks, i've seen some tk's for getting tanks by now, this would get much worse with solo tanks
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No with solo tanks TK would not be an issue. As it is now it is an issue because the game has to allow for enough tankers to fill all the available positions in tanks. So if somebody leaves without a full crew then there will be people left over with nothing to get into. With solo tanks there are 6 tanks 6 positions therfore only 6 people can spawn as tankers, everyone will always have a tank.

I would just like to point out that Arad is a tank map, not a combined arms map. So is Barashka.
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IMO if you can spawn as a soldier it is a combined arms map, every official tank map allows you to spawn as a soldier therefore they are all combined arms maps.
 
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#42
There are two main arguments against this: "it eliminates teamwork" and "it eliminates realism"

For the teamwork part, it already is pretty much removed on most public servers. I would classify about 50% of the players out there as incompetent tankers. It frustrates me to no end when you get a gunner that can miss stationary targets at 200m or a driver who wants to drive constantly or positions the tank poorly. I'm not saying all players are like this, but it's frequent enough that I don't tank with other people unless I have to due to limited number of tanks. I'd rather not be forced to have some random ROPlayer as part of my crew.

For the realism part. The crew system is already unrealistic. You can hop around positions instantly. You don't have a realistic number of positions anyways. If you wanted to be realistic you should have to jump into the loader position and get a view of the breech and pick which shell you are going to load.

It would be more realistic if instead of you representing an individual person, you represent the entire tank crew. And then instead of spawning as one person, you would spawn inside the tank that you choose beforehand.

I say that there should be the choice to run a tank with a crew or without one, but if you go solo you should still be able to reload while driving.
 
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#43
Good and polite post... But disagree.
Its all a matter of:

1) Helping beginners know how to team tank (take the driver seat and Drive CORRECTLY. All those whos commanding with me tell me they had a great time, cause I master communication and angeling well, thus I seldom die, unless my opponent is very good himself.

2) Redusing # of tanks on smaller maps to increase Inf and likewise.

3) Make slow animations for changing crew positions

4) Read the TEAMTANKERS GUIDE below:

TEAM TANKING GUIDE:

1) Change nick:
Type "TT" behind your nick which means, "Team-tanker".
- A team tanker has to KNOW the following:

a) how to angle the tank at about 1030 and 0130
b) Hull down position
c) prepositioning of the gun
d) how to report enemies (type, clock and range)
e) How to make a effective kill (report no shot)
f) MOve while enemy reloads
g) Keep distance from infantry

2) Spotting and reporting enemies
a) Fix up your VoIP (voice communication) and set it to LOCAL CHANNEL pressing "Delete".
If this channel doesnt work use "end" (Teamchannel) instead
OR find a free teamspeak channel.
b) If you are a driver OR commander learn to use the Clock and range to report enemy.
c) The commader MUST report the PRIMARY threat FIRST, so the Driver
can angle the tank accordingly!
d) Same counts for the driver.
Example:
- If you meet a tiger aiming at you at the flank, and a Mark 4 that doesnt see you, ANGLE the tank and report the tiger.

"Tiger at 9 Oclock, 200m, PRIORITY!"

3) Pre-position the gun.
a) The commander should always pre-position his gun at 1030 or 0130.
This way the drive only has to angle the tank, and the gun will be pointed at the direction of the threat.
This saves ALOT of time, especially when you are driving solo in a tiger.

4) Effective kills:
a) The team tanker should avoid wasting shots on an angled enemy.
Istead the driver should move to a position where he is angled while the enemy is NOT.
If the enemy is solo tanker, he cannot win as he will not be able to turn his tank and reload at the same time.
b) The commander has to know where to hit to make the most effective kills.
This is discussed in some other parts of this forum. The Team tanker SHOULD know.
c) As a commander and you see the enemy has his tank angled Report : "NO-SHOT!"

5) Hull down position:
a) Hull down position means that the enemy can only see the gun of your tank, while the hull of your tank is covered.
THis limits exposure, faces the enemy with the thickest armour, and makes the tank VERY hard to spot.
In addition being in hull down position makes it easier to back up 2meters to avoid a heavy shell from Tiger or IS-2 if you are in a light tank.
A driver should know how to put the tank in this position.

6) Advance on enemy reload:
a) Once the enemy has made a shot he will use 10-15 seconds on reloading.
In this time you are free to advance/flank or get in a better position.
b) fighting multiple enemies you may angle at the first tank letting him shoot at you, then angle at the next tank as the first reloads.
This will able you to fight multiple tanks from different angles without being damaged.
Especially works against solo tankers!!

7) Keep distance from infantry.
a) The panzerfaust is very effective against tanks at less than 80m and you never know who has it.
b) Close to a tank the infantry has increased chance of survival as it's FOV is reduced and movement is slow.

SUmmary:
If you KNOW theese basic rules of tanking you qualify to add "TT" in your nick. We'll be happy to crew with you!
 
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#44
There needs to be a fix, BUT REMOVING TEAM TANKING IS NOT IT.

The realism in RO is lacking, because the teamwork in tanks is lacking. If you want to solo tank, fine, go take a PzIvF2 and don't waste a good tank like a Tiger or a Panther to sit in one spot and snipe enemy tanks.

This idea, while well presented, is simply ridiculous. You want the game to be more realistic, but this suggestion is one GIGANTIC backwards step in realism.
 
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#45
The tanks are just fine the way it is.

Team work is strictly up to a players discretion

It is more fun to have a full tank if the communication is there, but most peeps don't bother.

If it took a realistic amount of time to change positions in the tank, more peeps would be willing to wait for a crew. Think of how long it would take to get out of the drivers seat and crawl back to the gun and get situated. Thats how long the wait period should be.
 
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#46
DangDave said:
The tanks are just fine the way it is.

Team work is strictly up to a players discretion

It is more fun to have a full tank if the communication is there, but most peeps don't bother.

If it took a realistic amount of time to change positions in the tank, more peeps would be willing to wait for a crew. Think of how long it would take to get out of the drivers seat and crawl back to the gun and get situated. Thats how long the wait period should be.
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I aggre completly. the only reason I would not like that is if I dont want to team up because no one is there or there is just a bunch of retards that wont listen or just try to piss you off by shooting the gun and not stoping. I aggre stongly for exit and switch times because right now solo tanking is better more fire power and you can go exactly where you want to go with out some tard driving you into the side of and enemy tank and bailing lol
 
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#48
Having one person drive a tank does seem kinda cheezy and not very realistic, but on public servers, unless you're playing with someone you know, tanking as it is now is flat out broken. First of all, no one uses the hull MG slot. Ever. It should be removed and control of it given to the driver - not the most realistic thing in the world, but better than not having a hull MG at all on any tank. Secondly, the current system really doesn't offer any benefit for having a gunner in the tank. The only thing you get is the ability to reload while moving, but at the expense of having to do this coordination dance. As most people do not have mics (and I for one hate using my mic, because I live in a rather crowded setting and just feel downright silly talking to a computer - call me self-conscious if you will), the current communication system could use some serious improvement. The driver should get whatever kills the gunner gets, in addition to having control of the hull MG - this would encourage people to actually play as driver instead of doing silly crap like jump in a tank and switch to turret at the last moment to try to lure people to drive for them. The position of the gunner as the commander should be made a lot more clear - maybe the commander could have some sort of commander cupola "free-look" mode (since he is the gunner *and* commander - this could be the same sort of doubling up of duties as the driver/hull MG) in which he can designate directions with a mouse click to order the driver to go there (the driver would see this direction on his vehicle compass thingy), and a quick "stop" or "move/hide/get us the hell out of here" command which would be VERY visible to the driver (maybe have a constant "orders" display which would show clearly the last order the commander gave). Then, if these changes are in, removing the current instant position-shifting would actually not hurt that much, because team-tanking, even on a pub, might actually become enjoyable rather than a pain in the ass.
 
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#51
Eater1 said:
Having one person drive a tank does seem kinda cheezy and not very realistic, but on public servers, unless you're playing with someone you know, tanking as it is now is flat out broken. First of all, no one uses the hull MG slot. Ever. It should be removed and control of it given to the driver - not the most realistic thing in the world, but better than not having a hull MG at all on any tank. Secondly, the current system really doesn't offer any benefit for having a gunner in the tank. The only thing you get is the ability to reload while moving, but at the expense of having to do this coordination dance. As most people do not have mics (and I for one hate using my mic, because I live in a rather crowded setting and just feel downright silly talking to a computer - call me self-conscious if you will), the current communication system could use some serious improvement. The driver should get whatever kills the gunner gets, in addition to having control of the hull MG - this would encourage people to actually play as driver instead of doing silly crap like jump in a tank and switch to turret at the last moment to try to lure people to drive for them. The position of the gunner as the commander should be made a lot more clear - maybe the commander could have some sort of commander cupola "free-look" mode (since he is the gunner *and* commander - this could be the same sort of doubling up of duties as the driver/hull MG) in which he can designate directions with a mouse click to order the driver to go there (the driver would see this direction on his vehicle compass thingy), and a quick "stop" or "move/hide/get us the hell out of here" command which would be VERY visible to the driver (maybe have a constant "orders" display which would show clearly the last order the commander gave). Then, if these changes are in, removing the current instant position-shifting would actually not hurt that much, because team-tanking, even on a pub, might actually become enjoyable rather than a pain in the ass.
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I think the driver does get points for kills afaik
 
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#52
Well I play a lot of RO and even on full tank servers as much time as not there's an opportunity to drive a tank solo. (esp ARAD) Likewise, most of the time you can give orders to a live crewman and he or she will follow them just fine, and there are a lot of guys using the mic, not the majority but a lot. If things are just too silly on any given server find another there are many good public servers with excellent battles and teamwork. To me it's a non-issue.

If you wanna make an impact on tanking fix the jackass bot tankers so you can either boot them out of your tank or else make them follow directions.

Los
 
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#55
Murphy said:
I have a better idea !
Portray one-man tanking in a realistic manner (position-switching animations that take time, as well as enter/exit animations) so its close to useless and hereby enforce teamtanking and then remove some of the tanks on Arad so that there are max 3 per team.

Problem solved.
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lol then you'd see tanks come to a halt, driver hatch pop open, soldier scramble up to turret, undo hatch, jump in, and start rocking and rolling.

Personally I think that would be great =)
 
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#57
Eater1 said:
Having one person drive a tank does seem kinda cheezy and not very realistic, but on public servers, unless you're playing with someone you know, tanking as it is now is flat out broken. First of all, no one uses the hull MG slot. Ever. It should be removed and control of it given to the driver - not the most realistic thing in the world, but better than not having a hull MG at all on any tank. Secondly, the current system really doesn't offer any benefit for having a gunner in the tank. The only thing you get is the ability to reload while moving, but at the expense of having to do this coordination dance. As most people do not have mics (and I for one hate using my mic, because I live in a rather crowded setting and just feel downright silly talking to a computer - call me self-conscious if you will), the current communication system could use some serious improvement. The driver should get whatever kills the gunner gets, in addition to having control of the hull MG - this would encourage people to actually play as driver instead of doing silly crap like jump in a tank and switch to turret at the last moment to try to lure people to drive for them. The position of the gunner as the commander should be made a lot more clear - maybe the commander could have some sort of commander cupola "free-look" mode (since he is the gunner *and* commander - this could be the same sort of doubling up of duties as the driver/hull MG) in which he can designate directions with a mouse click to order the driver to go there (the driver would see this direction on his vehicle compass thingy), and a quick "stop" or "move/hide/get us the hell out of here" command which would be VERY visible to the driver (maybe have a constant "orders" display which would show clearly the last order the commander gave). Then, if these changes are in, removing the current instant position-shifting would actually not hurt that much, because team-tanking, even on a pub, might actually become enjoyable rather than a pain in the ass.
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You sound like someone who has barely played with tanks in RO.

Both driver and gunner get rewarded for each kill. The hull MG is nearly useless on tank maps except on some rare occasions, and that's when a good driver jumps from his seat to the hull MG for a few seconds.

There is a "copula free look" for most tanks, what more do you need?

There is VOIP, tank chat and pre-recorded messages that can be used in a tank, I think it's more than enough. But a good driver will usually know where to go on the map, he doesn't need to be told "go left, go right, move forward, go right, etc..."
 
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#58
Oi!Oi!Oi! said:
There is VOIP, tank chat and pre-recorded messages that can be used in a tank, I think it's more than enough. But a good driver will usually know where to go on the map, he doesn't need to be told "go left, go right, move forward, go right, etc..."
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And a great driver will use VOIP or the tank chat channel and confirm that his ideas on which objective to hit next work with yours :)

No to solo tanking, forever.
 
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#59
Again, credit to the original poster for presenting his ideas clearly, but....

I don't think TeamTanking is broken. Nor have I ever had a bad experience with someone with TT tags. I even had a great time during the free week with some people who really wanted to team up in a tank, but were definately inexperienced (they jumped in my tank when others were available). We were able to coordinate and after being killed a few times, the new guys got the hang of it and we had some success.

The only real problems I had concerning tanks were the idiots who wanted to solo. Some would shoot you trying to get to a tank. Presumably, they wanted to solo in a tank. If that is the case and they are going to resort to being a**es to get a solo tank, to H:mad:ll with them. Then the other case was on Orel, when I jumped into a tank (into MG position) when mine was destroyed to prevent myself walking the distance to get a new one. The guy went off on a rant for like 2 minutes before he jumped out and satcheled himself and the tank. Then he proceeded to satchel the spawn area till he was finally kicked. Again, I am sure most guys who like to solo don't do this, but the idiots who do I would rather see go play some other game (to H:mad:ll with those idiots)

As far as the guys who team tank are concerned, don't jump in a tank with someone who wants to solo IF there are plently of other tanks available. You are just asking to piss players off. On the other hand, solo tankers shouldn't flip out if someone jumps in their tank because another tank isn't available. Other than that, the only thing bad you can really say about Team Tankers is that they may be a bit inexperienced and don't work well with someone who is really intent on soloing his own tank.

---------------------------------------------

If you really want to have 1 person per tank, then create a tank map where you have plenty of tanks. You will make lots of people happy. Forcing players into an infantry role because you want to lock tanks is wrong. Also, it is fun on ARAD playing infantry, sneaking up on tanks and taking them out with a panzerfaust. More challenging.
 
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