Questions about servers accepting donations and providing incentives

[krispyk]

Hey guys. I would like to know what your opinion is on accepting donations and providing incentives. I understand that running servers cost money but where do we draw the line on donations?

In Marco's thread with his per server stats mutator, he said

"[COLOR=Red]You are [U]not[/U] allowed to use this mutator for selling stats (for money) on your server[/COLOR]."

I have nothing against the International Gaming Community (link) but I'm confused as to what we're allowed to do. Here's the info from their page that pertains to donations:

Donations:

If you like our game servers and would like to give something in return,  you can make a donation.  
We do not sell Exp for our servers, we simply  would like to give something back for the people that is donating and  supporting us. 
All donations are gratefully received and will go towards  our servers and hardware upgrades.

- Donators will be reward with In-Game Perk Exp for any server they  choose. 
[B]Exp rewarded will vary for the amount they donate.[/B] 
If you have  any questions, feel free to email us at [email protected] 

- Donators will also receive [B]1 month VIP access to 40+ Custom Character  Skins[/B] on all our Custom Servers.
 ([B]Note: Only donations of $10 or more  can qualify for our 1 month VIP Skin access.[/B])

*Note: Please add your in-game username, a link to your Steam Profile  page to gain access to the VIP Skins, which server and perk you want Exp for under "Add special instructions". 
Leave it blank if you would like to be anonymous and donate just to support us.*

They say do not sell exp but if you give them money, they give you experience points depending on how much you give. Isn't that the same but worded differently? I'm confused. I know the other communities who sell exp specify what you get for what dollar amount but does not specifying what you get circumvent the rule?

Also, if you donate $10 or more, you get access to Custom Character skins (also through using Marco's per server stats) for one month. I know Marco didn't specify giving access to skins for money but is this a loophole?

I'm not trying to cause trouble but if this is an acceptable model to sustain servers, please let me know. Thanks for your time.

 

[RuneHarle]

In all honesty, most servers are disguising selling as donations. Now please don't misunderstand what I said. I agree that incentives for donations is good, but if you are obviously selling a service monthly for a timely donation, then you are OBVIOUSLY selling the use of your server/mutators.

On another note, a SUBSCRIPTION to a server is at the discretion of the player and is not selling of a mutator just server usage. If the incentives are being handled this way then they are well within their rights provided they are not breaking any preplaced laws.

In regards to Marco's Server Perks, I do not believe a subscription to a server would be breaking what he put, but I believe that the access to extra feature for donations that are in a loop ( like each month you pay a "fee" to get access to premium classes and this is always available for the "donation" and it never changes) are actually selling of services and DO break what he said and should not be allowed.

 

[Gartley]

Actually I think using the word 'Donation' is just word play in an attempt to go "But we are not selling anything! Players are donating." If they were not providing incentive it'd be easier to wave away but by providing incentive they are essentially selling a product.

Either way they are generating funds off of Marco's Mutator and KF. Which I doubt they've got explicit permission to do so and I also doubt he's getting any cuts from it, which I doubt he'd accept simply because Marco plays by the rules when modding. As it's also a breach of the EULA at least twice.

Your Mods must not be used by you, or anyone else, for any
commercial exploitation including, but not limited to in-game
advertising, other advertising or marketing for any company, product or
service.

You may not use KF, or any Mods created for or from KF or using the KFEd or
any other tools provided with this KF, for any commercial purposes without the prior
written consent of Tripwire Interactive or its authorized licensees including, but not
limited to, the following rules:

I say TWI either send the heavies around or that IGC provide some 'donations' to them

 

[Splatpope]

In the meantime, let everyone on the forum boycott these scumbags.

I know I will.

 

[krispyk]

Thanks for the replies. From what I gather, giving exp based on the dollar amount and setting a minimum "donation" amount to get 1 month of skin access is not only frowned upon but also a violation of the EULA. Does anyone know if Marco knows about this and if he's alright with it? Thanks.

 

[pointless [BYTE ME]]

Good to see things like this are getting posted here. In my honest opinion this is completely ridiculous. I'll join you on the boycott

 

[Marco]

I am well aware of what is going on (hence which is why I added that text in the thread) and no I am not ok with that as that defeats the purpose of "donating". I find any form of "donate to gain VIP access for ..." as a way to sell a service, although I kind of see it as a way for server hosts to try to earn some money to pay the server hosting. But then I might as-well start asking for "donations" to give monthly subscriptions to use my mutators in their servers (to repay the time I spent learning UScript and writing that mutator) which I obviously wont start doing.

 

[krispyk]

Thanks for your input Marco. Sorry for the late reply. I guess I pointed this out because exchanging exp for "donations" is still ongoing and now it's skin access. I'd really hate for this to be the trend. There must be other ways to sustain servers instead of exchanging virtual goods for "donations". I wonder if the International Gaming Community is even aware of what they're doing. (i.e. Violation of the EULA)

 

[ro_sauce]

so then is flux's mutator that gives people who donate a special logo in-game selling a service? (not sure what it did exactly, but it was something to recognize those who help keep his server running, maybe it was reserved slots, i cant remember)
i think you people are overreacting to nothing that concerns you.

 

[DDC1234]

For people that donated on fluxiserver there names would appear in cyan and he NVR reserves slot even for Fs members lol.
Also i see where this is going HOWEVER as for conitue pay per month thing yes i can understand that is wrong and srly 10$ for 1 month.
Flux on the other hand wasn't asking for a lot and some ppl actually wants to donate to help the servers so it is kind of like a reward for helping not a "U have to do it or else". So there is a GOOD way and BAD way to this donating for servers thing.

 

[EpharGy]

For people that donated on fluxiserver there names would appear in cyan and he NVR reserves slot even for Fs members lol.
Also i see where this is going HOWEVER as for conitue pay per month thing yes i can understand that is wrong and srly 10$ for 1 month.
Flux on the other hand wasn't asking for a lot and some ppl actually wants to donate to help the servers so it is kind of like a reward for helping not a "U have to do it or else". So there is a GOOD way and BAD way to this donating for servers thing.

IIRC FluX only started allowing for people to download due to the amount of requests from people asking to donate. I'm sure FluX will answer in this thread soon enough.

I guess there is two sides, those who ask for money to give an advantage or more features into the game and those who enable visual non gameplay altering things for donators. A donation should be exactly that, something that would be given even if there was no direct benefit at all. Your incentives should not be the deciding factor in a donation.

Unfortunately, i see this as something very hard to enforce

 

[krispyk]

so then is flux's mutator that gives people who donate a special logo in-game selling a service? (not sure what it did exactly, but it was something to recognize those who help keep his server running, maybe it was reserved slots, i cant remember)
i think you people are overreacting to nothing that concerns you.

I'm not sure how Flux got into the conversation. I was talking about a the International Gaming Community's advertisement and have no comment for Flux's way of running things since I do not know anything about it.

Back to the topic at hand, I was just asking about whether or not it's ok to exchange exp for "donations" or specify an amount to get access to custom skins. I wanted to know what other people's opinions are. Their advertisement (check the original post) specifies that the amount of exp you get depends on the amount of money you give them, sets a minimum of $10 for one month of skin access, and all of this is through Marco's per server stats mutator. Marco isn't ok with it. My personal opinion is that I'd dislike for this to be the trend (i.e. money for experience points, $10/month for skin access). Regardless of what I think, receiving money for mods isn't supposedly allowed by the EULA. Discussing this in the "General Discussion" part of the forum should be acceptable, right?

 

[tehmadcap]

Apart from the fact Marco specifically forbade it, I don't see any problem with what they're doing. Servers cost money and time, more than anything they will ever get from donations.

 

[krispyk]

Apart from the fact Marco specifically forbade it, I don't see any problem with what they're doing. Servers cost money and time, more than anything they will ever get from donations.

1. Violation of the EULA - Server costs money. That is true. Changing the wording does not change the fact that this is an exchange of virtual goods for money and setting a minimum amount is, in my opinion, unethical. This is the case regardless of how much is spent on their end. A lot of work goes into mods and mutators but you don't see paid versions of mods per the EULA. They're all supposed to be free. Remember ***********?

2. All of what they're offering for donations are only possible and done through Marco's mod and he specifically stated that this is not allowed it. Couldn't they at least honor the mod maker's request?

We are discussing the practice of accepting donations and providing incentives based on the amount "donated". I wanted to see what people thought about it. It's not only frowned upon but a violation of the EULA. Will they change their practices? I doubt it. Discussing this in the general discussion section of the forum should be ok though.

 

[EpharGy]

Its the same as a group providing access to a locked vanilla server for people who have donated.

Unfortunately it boils down if this can be enforced and the time, money and effort to enforce it.

 

[krispyk]

Its the same as a group providing access to a locked vanilla server for people who have donated.

Unfortunately it boils down if this can be enforced and the time, money and effort to enforce it.

I'm not sure about the locked vanilla servers part. Being able to password protect a server is a built-in feature. In the per server stats mutator's case, amount of exp is dependent on the donation and the set minimum amount is $10 for custom skin access. All of this is done through Marco's mod, for which he doesn't charge anything.

You're right about enforcement though. I doubt anything will be done about it but the important thing I learned through this discussion is that the practice I mentioned shouldn't propagate throughout the community. If Marco says he's not ok with it, I won't do this myself. *********** will continue to sell his mods and IGC will continue to give exp/skin access for money. That's just how it's going to be.