Proposal for Swat Buffs through a Mini-Rework

[Demon Swords]

Additions to passives:
- 6 Starting Armor Per level (Max 150)
- 2% Max Armor per level. (Max 50%. This Increase to max Armor does not give you starting armor.)

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Juggernaut (Renamed Heavy Armor Training):

• (Added): Increase perk weapon damage by 0.1% per point of your body armor. (Max 15% when you have 150 body armor at lv 25.)
• (same as before) While you have body armor, you only take Health damage from sonic attacks and clots can't grab you.
• (Starting armor moved to passives.)

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Assault Armor Rework:

• (New Effect): Restore your Body Armor by 1 point for every ZED you kill. While you have 25 or less body armor, assists also restores Body Armor.
• (Both halves of the old version were moved to passives.)

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Rational of Mini Rework that Buffs:
Swat is an awkward perk that has many skills balanced around giving you free stuff at the start of the game and not doing much after that. By moving the Starting Armor into the Swat’s passives, more room is given to Heavy Armor Training and Assault Armor to do something meaningful after Wave 1. (also gives a less forced skill choice at wave 1.)

These buffs to Swat are an attempt to make the perk a bit closer in strength to Commando while pushing the idea that Swat should be the Tankier perk of the two. The armor scaling damage of Juggernaut is to make the perk not deal significantly less damage then the commando’s +30% damage boost, but also not be such a strong boost that it is always better than the other option: Tactical Movement (also armor scaling damage is more thematic to Swat then a flat damage boost.). (Changed Heavy Armor Training's name to Juggernaut because the damage boost was inspired by how strong and tanky the Juggernauts in the Call of Duty games were and the name thematically fits the skill and Swat in general.)

Assault Armor is designed to let you maintain your Armor for Juggernaut and to build up armor in between waves. I don’t know how Assault Armor compares to the other option, Cripple (since I never play Swat over the seemingly superior Commando that has very similar or better options then Swat while also having Teamwork effects. Though Swat does have a very good Move Speed boost while Commando has none.) but there are plenty of ways to adjust my rework Idea for Assault Armor if too strong or weak.

 

[Aleflippy]

Breadsticks did a complete overhaul of the SWAT perk a while ago, it was honestly the most incredible take I've seen on a perk. We discussed at length what should be done to make the perk much more interesting and set it apart from the Commando even further. Here's the link, if you fancy spending the night reading !

My idea of a SWAT rework

So... For context; After ending a game of Suicidal Endless as the SWAT, I was really bummed out that I couldn't tank well enough with the lack of a berserker (plus I was feeling 100 round magazine onslaughts). I changed my level 5 skill from Heavy Armour Training so that I can get juiced by the...

forums.tripwireinteractive.com

I personally find the SWAT to be one of the most balanced and fun perk of the bunch compared to a few others. It does its role remarkably well, as a tank/debuff hybrid. And one of the best trash cleaner of the bunch. I honestly don't see much that needs to be done to improve it, besides having more reserve ammo or having weapons that feels truly different from one another (then again, we're slowly getting there as he receives numerous additions like the HRG Bastion or the Riot Shield).

I also believe that a few skills are too situational, but that's the case for most perks anyway. "Heavy Armor Training" is a must to start a game, but can't really rival the ludicrously powerful tool of moving in real-time while ADS. Close-Combat Training is also great to save ammo and money at first, but you'll quickly need that extra reload speed. So honestly... I believe those two could be tweaked a little. Your Juggernaut idea is pretty solid I have to say ! It incentivizes you to be careful and move around to keep that juicy armor on your ass. I'm not sure that Assault Armor should regen your armor though... It would be a bit too easy to abuse I think, and paired with "Juggernaut", you could consistently have extra damage ON-TOP of your passives. I think it's a bit too much to have +40% damage at level 25 for a perk destined to clear out small zeds.

As your additions : I believe starting with a full armor is a bit too OP, even if you need to level up quite a bit to reach that. Sure, you can already do that at level 20, but you need to "sacrifice" two very helpful skills to do so. You have to commit to something, so it's more or less "allowed". Here, it's free.

 

[OnionBubs]

Even SWAT's start-of-the-game-freebie perks are in better shape than most. Half the perks in this game have no reason to be switched off of. Ever. Here I cast my eyes at Gunslinger's one good skill tree loadout. (It's OK, though, I still enjoy Gunslinger.)

Other than Round 1 and 2 being kind of annoying with the MP7 (hello, Gorefiends), I don't have a problem with SWAT. It's still a more fun perk than most of them and hasn't had the worst of the game's power creep. Flagrant balancing bandaids in the form of giving it stupid weapons was a poor move, but we've long since passed the point of no return on that. The dash boost was completely unnecessary, too, but oh well.

 

[Aleflippy]

Even SWAT's start-of-the-game-freebie perks are in better shape than most. Half the perks in this game have no reason to be switched off of. Ever. Here I cast my eyes at Gunslinger's one good skill tree loadout. (It's OK, though, I still enjoy Gunslinger.)

Other than Round 1 and 2 being kind of annoying with the MP7 (hello, Gorefiends), I don't have a problem with SWAT. It's still a more fun perk than most of them and hasn't had the worst of the game's power creep. Flagrant balancing bandaids in the form of giving it stupid weapons was a poor move, but we've long since passed the point of no return on that. The dash boost was completely unnecessary, too, but oh well.

How about the medic? If you have an ounce of teamplay in your blood, you'll never pick anything than the skills boosting your healing. And if you play alone, you have no reason to take anything that doesn't turn you into a battle medic. It really should have been called "solo" and "multi" modes.

And honestly, that's the case for most perks. At best, you might swap a single skill once in a while depending on the weapon you choose. Otherwise, there's really one path that is better than the others.


Also also, I'd say that the gorefiends being annoying to deal with is kinda the point. The SWAT is truly meant to melt trash zeds like no others and struggle against others. Even with your T4-T5s, you'll find it difficult to deal with FPs ! So it's only natural that your T1 struggles against Gorefiends (which are already medium zeds IMO). Aim for the head ! I don't know the data specifically, but it seems like both Gorefasts and Gorefiends have much lower head HP than body's.

I do have to wonder what's the big deal with SWAT's arsenal in your eyes? Compared to many, and I mean MANY other perks, it stayed relatively safe and by the book. Only the HRG Stunner really puzzles me.

 

[OnionBubs]

I feel I should note that I don't really have an issue with SWAT on the whole, it's just an unfortunate victim of this game's mismanaged direction. Still my 3rd favorite perk after Sharpshooter and Commando.

I do have to wonder what's the big deal with SWAT's arsenal in your eyes? Compared to many, and I mean MANY other perks, it stayed relatively safe and by the book. Only the HRG Stunner really puzzles me.

The addition of the HRG Nailgun to SWAT was a blatant "oh man, everyone's mad at this perk not being able to shred Fleshpounds like the Commando does with the FAL (which was also a mistake, FWIW); we need to come up with something so they'll shut up."

The Glock/Shield combo is underwhelming, and the HRG Bastion is a blatant upgrade (to a paid weapon, at that).

The HRG Stunner was just variety for variety's sake, which I always hate; additions to a perk's arsenal should be meaningful and well thought out, and the Stunner was neither of those.

Addendum: In the game's current state, SWAT's arsenal is far less problematic than that of many other perks.

 

[Spoke]

I think that SWATs issue is that he has to pay for access to his bonuses. Commando doesn't need to pay to get zed time extensions or to be more sturdy and it doesn't help that SWAT is not cheap to mantain. Maybe some kind of grenade regeneration on kills or stuns by sustained fire? I'm not sure.

 

[Aleflippy]

I feel I should note that I don't really have an issue with SWAT on the whole, it's just an unfortunate victim of this game's mismanaged direction. Still my 3rd favorite perk after Sharpshooter and Commando.


The addition of the HRG Nailgun to SWAT was a blatant "oh man, everyone's mad at this perk not being able to shred Fleshpounds like the Commando does with the FAL (which was also a mistake, FWIW); we need to come up with something so they'll shut up."

The Glock/Shield combo is underwhelming, and the HRG Bastion is a blatant upgrade (to a paid weapon, at that).

The HRG Stunner was just variety for variety's sake, which I always hate; additions to a perk's arsenal should be meaningful and well thought out, and the Stunner was neither of those.

Addendum: In the game's current state, SWAT's arsenal is far less problematic than that of many other perks.

Funny that you say that, considering the sharpie is probably the perk I like THE LEAST. I just find his skills super underwhelming, and even unfit to KF2's gameplay... Standing still or crouching to get extra damage while most others have passives and/or skills that increase it straight up? That doesn't seem like a fair trade. Sure, once you get "Rack'em up", you're a big mean killing machine as long as you pop caps. But sometimes when things go south... It's just a bit difficult to free yourself from the zed swarm. I feel a small bonus to its ADS would help.

Indeed, the HRG Nailgun was mind-blowing... In a "how did this pass beta testing?" type of way. Absolutely everyone, veterans and newbies alike, mentioned how insanely powerful it was, and nothing was changed. I obviously really like the idea of a "nail-based" gun, but it's funny how the Vlad is so average while the HRG Nailgun is such a face-melter. The SWAT is already more than capable of killing Scrakes, with his flashbangs and assuming you aim for the head... That's more than enough really. It's okay if the perk struggles against ONE zed, namely the FPs.

I actually like the Glock/Shield combo... I cannot express why thoroughly, but I just do. Even if I could see it being downgraded to T3. What weapon are you referring to regarding the HRG Bastion? The Stoner obviously isn't a paid weapon, so I would guess you're referring to the Glock/Shield combo... And well, considering its a T5, it's only "natural" really.

We fully agree on the Stunner though. As soon as it was revealed, I said they were trying too hard to come up with ideas.

And indeed, SWAT's arsenal is among the least worst as it stands. On that, we also agree.


@Spoke : do you mean that he has to pay extra to benefit from his extra armor? Because otherwise really... His skills are pretty tough. Spawning with one more 9mm makes for some pocket money, same as spawning with 50 (or even 100) points of armor. And as soon as Level 5, you already have access to a skill allowing you to move freely as you ADS or crouch... That's pretty sick, and you can use it with any guns.

The real issue is that SWAT's ammo consumption is off the roof, but that's pretty much expected from one of the most "gung-ho" perks of all. It would be like lamenting that most skills requires you to have ammo to be efficient... I mean, it's a FPS right?

 

[Spoke]

@Spoke : do you mean that he has to pay extra to benefit from his extra armor? Because otherwise really... His skills are pretty tough. Spawning with one more 9mm makes for some pocket money, same as spawning with 50 (or even 100) points of armor. And as soon as Level 5, you already have access to a skill allowing you to move freely as you ADS or crouch... That's pretty sick, and you can use it with any guns.

The real issue is that SWAT's ammo consumption is off the roof, but that's pretty much expected from one of the most "gung-ho" perks of all. It would be like lamenting that most skills requires you to have ammo to be efficient... I mean, it's a FPS right?

He has to pay to use his specialties. Loosly speaking: commando doesn't need to buy zed extensions, firebug and survivalist don't need to pay to use zedplosion etc.. Swat needs $ to be a tank and a stunner, which would be fine if swat was a cheap perk but he's not.

 

[Aleflippy]

He has to pay to use his specialties. Loosly speaking: commando doesn't need to buy zed extensions, firebug and survivalist don't need to pay to use zedplosion etc.. Swat needs $ to be a tank and a stunner, which would be fine if swat was a cheap perk but he's not.

But... He can cripple zeds simply by shooting at them with the right skills? Just like you need ammo to trigger extra zed-time, or trigger zed-splosions... That's kind of a ridiculous take. Sure, you have to buy flashbangs... But so does every other perks.

As for having to pay extra to become the tank you're meant to be... Sure. It is true that the Zerk has innate resistance (from passives and possibly skills) and can potentially heal itself. While the medic has better healing. But you can also spawn with pristine armor, saving you potentially 300$ if you manage to avoid your opponents. That's a SUPER GOOD headstart. And throw in 75$ more if you chose to spawn with an extra 9mm. Medic and Zerk might have the extra survivability at all times, but they don't get extra money for their trouble.

 

[Spoke]

But... He can cripple zeds simply by shooting at them with the right skills? Just like you need ammo to trigger extra zed-time, or trigger zed-splosions... That's kind of a ridiculous take. Sure, you have to buy flashbangs... But so does every other perks.

You misunderstood, every perk needs to buy ammo and grenades but not every perk needs to buy their 'bonuses" like swat does. Swat without armor and grenades can slowdown zeds, run fast or and shoot for free in zed time, commando without armor and grenades can extend zed-time and still be tankier with Tenacious. You could say that gunslinger is in the same position as swat but he in exchange gets cheap, ammo efficient, and high damage loadouts.

But... He can cripple zeds simply by shooting at them with the right skills? Just like you need ammo to trigger extra zed-time, or trigger zed-splosions... That's kind of a ridiculous take. Sure, you have to buy flashbangs... But so does every other perks.

As for having to pay extra to become the tank you're meant to be... Sure. It is true that the Zerk has innate resistance (from passives and possibly skills) and can potentially heal itself. While the medic has better healing. But you can also spawn with pristine armor, saving you potentially 300$ if you manage to avoid your opponents. That's a SUPER GOOD headstart. And throw in 75$ more if you chose to spawn with an extra 9mm. Medic and Zerk might have the extra survivability at all times, but they don't get extra money for their trouble.

If you manage to keep your starting armor to wave 5 where it actually matters then sure, no argument there. Medic and zerk don't get extra money because they don't need it, armor has to be paid for to repair it, hp can be repaired for free so they gain in the long term.

 

[Aleflippy]

You misunderstood, every perk needs to buy ammo and grenades but not every perk needs to buy their 'bonuses" like swat does. Swat without armor and grenades can slowdown zeds, run fast or and shoot for free in zed time, commando without armor and grenades can extend zed-time and still be tankier with Tenacious. You could say that gunslinger is in the same position as swat but he in exchange gets cheap, ammo efficient, and high damage loadouts.

If you manage to keep your starting armor to wave 5 where it actually matters then sure, no argument there. Medic and zerk don't get extra money because they don't need it, armor has to be paid for to repair it, hp can be repaired for free so they gain in the long term.

But the medic also has an armor bonus... So it ends up paying even more to have a full armor.

And you mentioned yourself, and I quote : "Swat without armor and grenades can slowdown zeds, run fast or and shoot for free in zed time"

So he's still getting free stuff like any other perks.

As for keeping your armor until wave 5... Sure, but that's still an early 300 dosh boost. I wouldn't say that's AMAZING, but it's a hefty help at first. Don't forget that on harder difficulties, pretty much EVERY perk needs to buy an almost full armor on each wave, and especially perks like the zerk or demo.

 

[Spoke]

But the medic also has an armor bonus... So it ends up paying even more to have a full armor.

That's not important, what's important is that medic doesn't need it.

And you mentioned yourself, and I quote : "Swat without armor and grenades can slowdown zeds, run fast or and shoot for free in zed time"

So he's still getting free stuff like any other perks.

And like i said and explained, it's not enough.

 

[Aleflippy]

That's not important, what's important is that medic doesn't need it.

And like i said and explained, it's not enough.

So basically, you and you alone can decide what the game needs. Got it.

Thanks for wasting my time btw.

 

[Spoke]

So basically, you and you alone can decide what the game needs. Got it.

Thanks for wasting my time btw.

Subjectivity is implied. I didn't say "And like i said and explained, it's not enough in my opinion." because it's obviously my opinion. What else would it be? We're all intuitive enough to know when something is an opinion even if it isn't being formally presented as such. You decided to waste your time, if you did not want to respond or refute what i said you could've simply said nothing.