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My idea of a SWAT rework

Breadsticks_

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 5, 2018
82
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So... For context; After ending a game of Suicidal Endless as the SWAT, I was really bummed out that I couldn't tank well enough with the lack of a berserker (plus I was feeling 100 round magazine onslaughts). I changed my level 5 skill from Heavy Armour Training so that I can get juiced by the medic, but I died to the infuriating combo of the EDAR Trapper and a raged Scrake so I couldn't really do much. However I still had armour and used the G18 & riot shield blocking damage but still died. With this, I thought to myself "I reckon I could actually make a better SWAT than what is already there" and personally I was quite happy with what I came up with.

XP Objectives:
Dealing damage with SWAT weapons.
Killing Clots and Sirens with perk weapons.


Perk Bonuses:
+25%
Perk Weapon Damage
[1% Per Level]​
+100%
Increased Magazine Size
[4% per level]​
+150%
Armor Bonus
[6% per level]​
+10%
Damage Resistance
[0.4% per level]​
+20%
Movement Speed
[0.8% per level]​


Specialization:
Heavy Armor Training
While you have body armor, you only take damage from sonic attacks and clots cannot grab you. You begin each game with 50% armor.
5​
Battalion
While your perk weapons are holstered, they reload passively over time (5% magazine per second for all weapons holstered).
Unwavering
Increase your damage resistance by 1% per Armour point lost, up to 50%
10​
Always Prepared
Carry one extra grenade and 25% more ammo for each perk weapon.
Regenerative Armor
Killing any zed will regenerate 2 points of armour, up to 75 points of armor.
15​
Cripple
Multiple hits with perk weapons will slow zeds down by 30%. Head and weak spots apply this twice as fast.
Speed-load
You can reload your perk weapons whilst you are sprinting. After a reload, increase your movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
20​
Fully Automatic
After a weapon switch, increase your stumble power by 100% and Fire Rate by 30% for 2 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
Battering Ram
During Zed time you move in real-time, you deal massive damage and knockdown any Zed you touch. Each zed hit will generate 4 points of Armor.
25​
Rapid Assault
When Zed time activates your weapons are reloaded, you do not consume ammo, you shoot in real-time and increase stumble power by 100%

Summary
The main idea behind this rework is to make SWAT a more inclusive perk; being the true alternative tank besides Berserker or a utility perk that is made to make space with high stumble power and a constant stream of lead. While the Berserker’s focus is health, the SWAT’s focus is armour. The left side of the tree is a strong focus on that, keeping a stable armour level so that they can keep in the heat of the battle. The right side of the tree is the focus on making space, and always having a weapon ready to throw hundreds of rounds at the horde, being able to buy time for the party to deal with the Fleshpounds and Scrakes.

When playing the perk through to level 25 for the first time, you'd be right to think that with the combination of Heavy Armour Training and Assault Armour, you'd have so much armour that you can tank a lot of hits but unfortunately that isn't the case, especially at higher levels. When you figure this out your initial thought is "Why don't I just play the Berserker since he does that role but much better?" The idea of the regenerative armour was the theory that brings a prolonged “tankiness” that only a few provide in their own ways. This regenerative armour will mean the SWAT can take a lot more punishment before they need to call it quits and return to the medic, plus when considering the weapons strengths you'll be more likely to focus on smaller zeds to make the skill more valuable and to properly play the intended role of the SWAT. This specialization (combined with the increase movement) makes for a class that can jump in to help out, make it out of tight spots and (when they reach level 25) can bring the reinforcements the party have been looking for.

A lot of the time, people tend to compare the SWAT to the Commando a lot, because as the SWAT currently stands it appears that they both try to offer similar roles (other than the extended Zed Time). But upon closer inspection of the weapons themselves plus the skills that SWAT offers, they aren't particularly similar. Commando tends to weapons with higher damage and lower magazine sizes so that he can occasionally take on FP and Scrakes (with a couple hits) but with enough ammo to pick off smaller zeds. But the SWAT has lower damage, higher magazine size and a very high fire rate; picking off more smaller zeds, slowing down larger zeds and being able to provide consistent damage output (even if he can't solo a FP). But then again the problem the SWAT is faced with is the mindset given to newer players that "They have a higher magazine pool, so he must do more damage". But that isn't his role the same way Berserker isn't a damage dealer. What the skills should bring is something that can keep distance from Zeds and providing enough of a constant damage output that your contribution is valued; but not panic zeds and create a hard time for GS and SS like the Firebug normally does. When looking at the SWAT’s weapons and the current perks you can choose, there isn’t much that flows well with the high magazine at higher level and keeping a literal constant flow of lead, so incorporating the Battalion perk can always keep your weapons topped up when you’re ready to reload. This combined with the high stumble from Cripple and Fully Automatic can help keep danger just out of reach, but by level 25 Rapid Assault makes sure it stays out of reach.

Changes
  • The first thing I wanted to change about the perk was the Armour, other than the heavy armour training, having a perk dedicated to increasing your armour is completely redundant since the Field Medic will get 175 points of it by level 25 with no skills required for it. So having it be a passive skill frees up a spot for a new skill that adds more value and diversity to the perk.
  • I decided to give the SWAT increased movement speed because the idea of Battering Ram would get much more use if you were actually fast enough to make it work, plus it adds an overall increase in survivability as the SWAT
  • I gave the SWAT damage resistance rather than bullet resistance because the idea of a "tanky" perk needs to be able to stave off some damage.
  • I gave the Sharpshooter's "Always Prepared" Skill to the SWAT because while it still gives ammo like Ammo Vest does, it gives the SWAT an extra Flashbang to help deal with Scrakes and FP better.
  • I moved the Cripple down to level 15 as this is the general tipping point as to what side of the skill tree you want to go down, both perks are valuable and rewarding to play, so this side of the skill tree allows for more stumble and gives general practice of looking for weak spots and aiming for heads.
  • I gave the Rapid Assault skill a buff to align with the new skills for the SWAT, when Zed time is triggered, your weapons are fully reloaded, which means even after Zed time is finished, the SWAT doesn't have to stop shooting.
  • For Battering Ram, I shifted the movement to be in real-time rather than close to it, plus the reward of 4 armour points per Zed hit aligns perfectly with the tanky playstyle that the SWAT is supposed to ask for.
  • I also gave the SWAT an XP objective to kill Sirens, proccing stumble on Sirens negates their scream plus that will be the SWAT's direct counter if it isn't catered to.

Specialisation
  • Adding Unwavering would mean a more incentivised pick for heavy armour training since as you are more involved in the onslaught, your ability to take more hits doesn't decrease with added resistance, similar to that of "Parry" and "Resistance".
  • Regenerative Armour is my idea of the solution to the Armour problem for the SWAT, as it is advertised that it is their specialty but it rarely lasts long, rewarding SWAT players picking off small/weak zeds to give them more survivability.
  • Speed-load on its own sounds rather peculiar but when you consider that Battering Ram gives you real-time movement speed, keeping your weapons topped up keeps you prepared for maximised effect of Zed time.
  • Battalion is the ideal perk for SWAT as their weapons will have very high magazine sizes, and having a weapon that is always filled with bullets at some point means your damage output rarely slows down and it slowly increases the reward for levelling the SWAT as its value increases with higher levels.
  • Fully Automatic is the competitor to Speed-load and aligns with the decision to be either tanky or stumble power, this skill coincides with the idea of switching between weapons that has been loaded thanks to Battalion instead of just reloading your current weapon and rewards that playstyle with more stumble power
 
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I feel like you need more damage resistance than 10%. Also Battalion seems weird.
I really would appreciate the MOVEMENT SPEED, which is something that would be really cool for the SWAT. As well as the Regenerative Armor, having it along with the Heavy Armor Training would be really good (maybe OP).
I don't understand why you would need 100% stumble rate and 30% higher fire rate only after a weapon switch. Or why you would need an extra 10% movement speed while you already have 20% extra movement speed.
Nice work there, hope this would be seen
 
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I feel like you need more damage resistance than 10%. Also Battalion seems weird.
I really would appreciate the MOVEMENT SPEED, which is something that would be really cool for the SWAT. As well as the Regenerative Armor, having it along with the Heavy Armor Training would be really good (maybe OP).
I don't understand why you would need 100% stumble rate and 30% higher fire rate only after a weapon switch. Or why you would need an extra 10% movement speed while you already have 20% extra movement speed.
Nice work there, hope this would be seen
Thanks for the response and criticism, its nice to get a bit of interaction with such ideas and yes hopefully someone does look at this (*ahem* Yoshiro *ahem*)

My general idea for 10% damage resistance rather than 20/25% is that the damage won't normally be going directly to the health for the SWAT, plus with heavy armour training and regenerative armour would make you almost immortal if the damage resistance was any higher. Perhaps in that regard and looking at the Unwavering skill it'd be better off removed and replaced with it's old skill of weapon switch speed.
My idea for Battalion was taking inspiration from the Gunzerker skill from Borderlands 2 because I think such an idea would be pretty cool on weapons such as the p90, gaining 5 rounds a second while you're using a vector as an example.
The movement speed when reloading is mainly there to help out the Battering Ram skill when I was making it, but now I look at it you're right when thinking beyond that as to what it really brings, perhaps it could offer something else such as a brief stun/stumble buff or a damage buff . I dunno.
But for the weapon switch, that idea generally sits nicely alongside the Battalion skill because over time your weapons would be reloading; so after a while, when you run out of ammo or haven't got the time to reload, taking advantage of a part/fully reloaded weapon in hand just gives you a little boost.
But for the two previous points, it was trying to give skills to the SWAT that doesn't just hand it to you on a platter and rewards more interaction with the class, similarly to that of Parry on the Berserker or Rack 'em up for GS/SS.
 
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I feel like you need more damage resistance than 10%. Also Battalion seems weird.
I really would appreciate the MOVEMENT SPEED, which is something that would be really cool for the SWAT. As well as the Regenerative Armor, having it along with the Heavy Armor Training would be really good (maybe OP).
I don't understand why you would need 100% stumble rate and 30% higher fire rate only after a weapon switch. Or why you would need an extra 10% movement speed while you already have 20% extra movement speed.
Nice work there, hope this would be seen
I'm also looking to see what "Could" be done to the survivalist because I can't stand how limiting the perk is...
 
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Check this reply I've written (#7)
 
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He did it, the absolute mad man ! He did write more thorough posts ! :D

My main perks up for balancing (or a proper rework) would be mostly the Medic, Sharpshooter and Survivalist. I tend to think the SWAT is a very decent perk, as we discussed a few times with Humam2104. But here's my take on your ideas nonetheless :

>Killing clots AND sirens? I don't really see why the sirens specifically, as I never quite pictured the SWAT as a siren killer (I think it would be hilarious to give that to the demo though!). But I guess why not? As you mention, he's good at dispatching them. Maybe not the best, but he's helping.

>I guess that's the backbone of your post, but I don't really see why the SWAT should get a flat 10% damage resistance boost when most perks get a damage-specific resistance (fire, explosive, bullets...). The main thing is that I think it helps differentiate the three main "tanks" of the crew : the zerk is the tankiest, with a flat resistance, because he's often up-close and personal. The medic has better and faster healing, allowing him not to soak up more damage, but patch himself up faster to bring the pain yet again. The SWAT, meanwhile, gets improved armor. And how I see it, he should actually have passives related to it, rather than merely skills you have to pick. Maybe he shouldn't spawn with it straight up, but maybe he could "regen" armor, similarly to the berserker's healing? Maybe he could "repair" armor instead, helping the team. Maybe he could have a better resistance with it, meaning he would get the 10% (or even more so, like a flat 20%) ON-TOP of the armor's natural resistance properties. But only when he's armored. Lastly, he could also get discounts. Just like the medic used to in KF1.

>This being said, I like the idea of having ONLY sonic attacks damaging you. I believe the survivalist already has such properties? That would make even more sense for the SWAT. The other idea, "Battalion" is cool on paper but I guess I wouldn't be the guy to use it... I'm an impulsive reloader ! I hate getting caught with my pants down. So I always try to reload whenever I get a breather. But for someone who keeps forgetting about it, or using 2-3 guns...That might be a blessing. Still, I believe NOT taking damage while being armored is just too good to pass up.

>I see that my idea for passives are actually ideas for "level 10" and "level 15" skills ! As such, I can't say anything negative about them... Just that I'd rather see the 10% damage resistance somewhere here instead. I do want to know however, about "Unwavering"... Does it mean that as long as you got less than 50% or armor left, you get FIFTY PERCENT damage resistance?! Because that's hell of a lot. Even more so considering "Heavy Armor Training" mitigating any damage to your health. Halving every damages sounds like an awful lot. I believe it should be only when you are below 50% health instead.

>Regenerative Armor on its own sounds great. Considering how fast your armor depletes, getting 2pts of armor for every kill doesn't seem too much... It's maybe too little even. A bigger 5pts seems more reasonable. However, considering the previous two armor-buffing skills, I'd say that using all three would be ludicrous. Definitely digging your changes to Cripple though ! I believe both are great choices.

>Speed-Load sounds like a wet-dream... Ooooh the times I've spent using Gung-Ho in Call of Duty games ! It sounds right up the SWAT's alley too, and I would love to see something similar for the slinger. Fully-Automatic on the other hand is very situational, but I think skills favoring a certain playstyle should be more common, precisely to allow people to try other stuff. Again, both very sound options.

>Does "Battering Ram" actually adds 4 points or armor PER HIT or per ZED HIT? I would assume the latter for obvious reasons, but I do want to make it clear ! Again, very little else to say : both great ideas.

>Not increasing his armor but instead focusing on regenerating it and making it stronger is a nice touch, and indeed yet another way to differentiate the perk for the medic class.

>Increasing his speed feels a bit unneeded however. I'm not saying it would make the perk OP, far from it. Just that he doesn't feel that slow, helped by his lightweight weaponry. I guess he could simply get a speed boost whenever Battering Ram is in use?

>All in all, as I mentioned when you explained your take on Killing Floor's bosses and their difficulty regarding the various maps... I believe you nailed it on the head. Again, all your points are solid and valuable and it does show that you got what the perk is all about. What it's role. And what doesn't work currently.


>Orks are definitely SWATs in disguise : DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA ( for real, having a perk that just NEVER.STOPS.SHOOTING is amazing and that could become a brand new trope in class-based shooter entirely)
 
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Speaking of discounts, the one who really needs discounts is the survivalist, he doesn't get the same ammo boxes from weapons, he needs more weapons because his weapons are nerfed. And currently has a low Magazine and high recoil so it's really necessary I think
It's maybe too little even. A bigger 5pts seems more reasonable
Agreed
>Does "Battering Ram" actually adds 4 points or armor PER HIT or per ZED HIT
Nice touch
If all these improvements are embedded into SWAT, I wouldn't play any other perk to be honest
 
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He did it, the absolute mad man ! He did write more thorough posts ! :D

My main perks up for balancing (or a proper rework) would be mostly the Medic, Sharpshooter and Survivalist. I tend to think the SWAT is a very decent perk, as we discussed a few times with Humam2104. But here's my take on your ideas nonetheless :

>Killing clots AND sirens? I don't really see why the sirens specifically, as I never quite pictured the SWAT as a siren killer (I think it would be hilarious to give that to the demo though!). But I guess why not? As you mention, he's good at dispatching them. Maybe not the best, but he's helping.

>I guess that's the backbone of your post, but I don't really see why the SWAT should get a flat 10% damage resistance boost when most perks get a damage-specific resistance (fire, explosive, bullets...). The main thing is that I think it helps differentiate the three main "tanks" of the crew : the zerk is the tankiest, with a flat resistance, because he's often up-close and personal. The medic has better and faster healing, allowing him not to soak up more damage, but patch himself up faster to bring the pain yet again. The SWAT, meanwhile, gets improved armor. And how I see it, he should actually have passives related to it, rather than merely skills you have to pick. Maybe he shouldn't spawn with it straight up, but maybe he could "regen" armor, similarly to the berserker's healing? Maybe he could "repair" armor instead, helping the team. Maybe he could have a better resistance with it, meaning he would get the 10% (or even more so, like a flat 20%) ON-TOP of the armor's natural resistance properties. But only when he's armored. Lastly, he could also get discounts. Just like the medic used to in KF1.

>This being said, I like the idea of having ONLY sonic attacks damaging you. I believe the survivalist already has such properties? That would make even more sense for the SWAT. The other idea, "Battalion" is cool on paper but I guess I wouldn't be the guy to use it... I'm an impulsive reloader ! I hate getting caught with my pants down. So I always try to reload whenever I get a breather. But for someone who keeps forgetting about it, or using 2-3 guns...That might be a blessing. Still, I believe NOT taking damage while being armored is just too good to pass up.

>I see that my idea for passives are actually ideas for "level 10" and "level 15" skills ! As such, I can't say anything negative about them... Just that I'd rather see the 10% damage resistance somewhere here instead. I do want to know however, about "Unwavering"... Does it mean that as long as you got less than 50% or armor left, you get FIFTY PERCENT damage resistance?! Because that's hell of a lot. Even more so considering "Heavy Armor Training" mitigating any damage to your health. Halving every damages sounds like an awful lot. I believe it should be only when you are below 50% health instead.

>Regenerative Armor on its own sounds great. Considering how fast your armor depletes, getting 2pts of armor for every kill doesn't seem too much... It's maybe too little even. A bigger 5pts seems more reasonable. However, considering the previous two armor-buffing skills, I'd say that using all three would be ludicrous. Definitely digging your changes to Cripple though ! I believe both are great choices.

>Speed-Load sounds like a wet-dream... Ooooh the times I've spent using Gung-Ho in Call of Duty games ! It sounds right up the SWAT's alley too, and I would love to see something similar for the slinger. Fully-Automatic on the other hand is very situational, but I think skills favoring a certain playstyle should be more common, precisely to allow people to try other stuff. Again, both very sound options.

>Does "Battering Ram" actually adds 4 points or armor PER HIT or per ZED HIT? I would assume the latter for obvious reasons, but I do want to make it clear ! Again, very little else to say : both great ideas.

>Not increasing his armor but instead focusing on regenerating it and making it stronger is a nice touch, and indeed yet another way to differentiate the perk for the medic class.

>Increasing his speed feels a bit unneeded however. I'm not saying it would make the perk OP, far from it. Just that he doesn't feel that slow, helped by his lightweight weaponry. I guess he could simply get a speed boost whenever Battering Ram is in use?

>All in all, as I mentioned when you explained your take on Killing Floor's bosses and their difficulty regarding the various maps... I believe you nailed it on the head. Again, all your points are solid and valuable and it does show that you got what the perk is all about. What it's role. And what doesn't work currently.


>Orks are definitely SWATs in disguise : DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA ( for real, having a perk that just NEVER.STOPS.SHOOTING is amazing and that could become a brand new trope in class-based shooter entirely)
I thought of giving the Siren XP objective to the SWAT purely on the basis that it doesn't make it boring and it isn't being used as an XP objective, the other option I tossed up would have been husk but I wasn't sure about it.

Perhaps the damage resistance from unwavering and the passive would be a bit much, I think if I said that Unwavering would deactivate once you lose armour, and/or wasn't as strong, I'd have kept it on. But my initial thought was that if the armour tank route was taken that you'd be rewarded the more durable/stable armour compared to the rest of the classes, probably increased armour durability instead of a flat resistance, I think that combined with lees/no damage resistance as a whole would make it more balanced.

I was thinking about whether the SWAT should give armour, but that does kinda challenge with Support's added armour resupply, plus with the addition of the improved armour for SWAT would help distinguish his specialty from the rest of the perks. But I guess it does add value to the class and gives a nice dynamic for team play.

The regenerative armour I felt was a nice value since the SWAT isn't particularly strong against larger zeds plus he can't always be the strongest tank consistently like the zerk. Otherwise everyone would just say sayonara to the zerk.

The Battering ram 4 points per Zed hit since that would be mad scary OP, so being in the thick of a fight with dozens of them around you would be more rewarding than playing safe, and I guess is a nice counter perk to Zerk's 50 health points per Zed trigger (If people even use that).

I guess with all of this in mind I might do a remake of my remake. And I would LOVE to see this made and tested by a modder.
 
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After the criticism and compliments of the original idea of a rework, I thought I would need to go through and give the rework a quick tidy and polish around the edges.

XP Objectives:
Dealing damage with SWAT weapons.
Killing Clots and Sirens with perk weapons.


Perk Bonuses:
+25%
Perk Weapon Damage
[1% Per Level]​
+100%
Increased Magazine Size
[4% per level]​
+50%
Armor Bonus
[2% per level]​
+25%
Weapon Switch Speed
[1% per level]​
+20%
Movement Speed
[0.8% per level]​
Armour Supplier​


Specialization:
Heavy Armor Training
While you have body armour, you only take health damage from sonic attacks and clots cannot grab you. You begin each game with 50% armour.
5​
Battalion
While your perk weapons are holstered, they reload passively over time (5% magazine per second for all weapons holstered).
Unwavering
Increase your armour durability by 1% per Armour point lost, up to 50%.
10​
Always Prepared
Carry one extra grenade and 25% more ammo for each perk weapon.
Regenerative Armor
Killing any zed will regenerate 2 points of armour, up to 75 points of armour.
15​
Cripple
Multiple hits with perk weapons will slow zeds down by 30%. Head and weak spots apply this twice as fast.
Speed-load
You can reload your perk weapons whilst you are sprinting. After a reload, increase your movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
20​
Fully Automatic
After a weapon switch, increase your stumble power by 100% and Fire Rate by 30% for 2 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
Battering Ram
During Zed time you move in real-time, you deal massive damage and knockdown any Zed you touch. You regenerate 4 points of Armour for each Zed hit (Once per Zed)
25​
Rapid Assault
When Zed time activates your weapons are reloaded, you do not consume ammo, you shoot in real-time and increase stumble power by 100%

Changes
The extra damage resistance seemed a bit much and rather unnecessary, so I switched it out with one of the original passive skills of weapon switch speed, which felt more in line with the perk as a whole.
I edited the extra Armour value so that it actually added up to the reasonable total of 150 points instead of 250 (I dare think what kind of monster I would make if it were to be implemented).
I gave the added skill of Armour supplier, which would give each party member 25 armour once per round, similarly to that of the demolitionist or the support.
I changed the Unwavering skill armour durability instead of a flat damage resistance, since that is way too much for someone that shouldn't specialise in health as well, and the added risk of losing armour is still there whilst providing a general buff to the perk.
I added overall clarity to Battering Ram as to get a general idea as to how much armour would be regained and as to how such a perk should be approached.
 
Upvote 0
After the criticism and compliments of the original idea of a rework, I thought I would need to go through and give the rework a quick tidy and polish around the edges.

XP Objectives:
Dealing damage with SWAT weapons.
Killing Clots and Sirens with perk weapons.



Perk Bonuses:
+25%
Perk Weapon Damage
[1% Per Level]​
+100%
Increased Magazine Size
[4% per level]​
+50%
Armor Bonus
[2% per level]​
+25%
Weapon Switch Speed
[1% per level]​
+20%
Movement Speed
[0.8% per level]​
Armour Supplier​


Specialization:
Heavy Armor Training
While you have body armour, you only take health damage from sonic attacks and clots cannot grab you. You begin each game with 50% armour.
5​
Battalion
While your perk weapons are holstered, they reload passively over time (5% magazine per second for all weapons holstered).
Unwavering
Increase your armour durability by 1% per Armour point lost, up to 50%.
10​
Always Prepared
Carry one extra grenade and 25% more ammo for each perk weapon.
Regenerative Armor
Killing any zed will regenerate 2 points of armour, up to 75 points of armour.
15​
Cripple
Multiple hits with perk weapons will slow zeds down by 30%. Head and weak spots apply this twice as fast.
Speed-load
You can reload your perk weapons whilst you are sprinting. After a reload, increase your movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
20​
Fully Automatic
After a weapon switch, increase your stumble power by 100% and Fire Rate by 30% for 2 seconds (Cooldown of 5 seconds).
Battering Ram
During Zed time you move in real-time, you deal massive damage and knockdown any Zed you touch. You regenerate 4 points of Armour for each Zed hit (Once per Zed)
25​
Rapid Assault
When Zed time activates your weapons are reloaded, you do not consume ammo, you shoot in real-time and increase stumble power by 100%

Changes
The extra damage resistance seemed a bit much and rather unnecessary, so I switched it out with one of the original passive skills of weapon switch speed, which felt more in line with the perk as a whole.
I edited the extra Armour value so that it actually added up to the reasonable total of 150 points instead of 250 (I dare think what kind of monster I would make if it were to be implemented).
I gave the added skill of Armour supplier, which would give each party member 25 armour once per round, similarly to that of the demolitionist or the support.
I changed the Unwavering skill armour durability instead of a flat damage resistance, since that is way too much for someone that shouldn't specialise in health as well, and the added risk of losing armour is still there whilst providing a general buff to the perk.
I added overall clarity to Battering Ram as to get a general idea as to how much armour would be regained and as to how such a perk should be approached.
OK, so I LOVE this. Massive improvement over stock SWAT, and very well considered. I have two tiny changes to suggest on top of what you have here.

The first is purely a flavor thing. Berserker is currently immune to clot grab. In order to make the tank feeling of the classes be somewhat different I suggest this change to your first tier:

Heavy Armor Training:
While you have body armour, you only take 50% damage from sonic attacks. When grabbed by a clot, increase the speed of your bash 100%.You begin each game with 50% armour.

The second change would simply be to reflect how support can upgrade his ammo packs given to party members. I think regenerative armor (which I love) is the perfect place to add this.

Regenerative Armor
Killing any zed will regenerate 2 points of armour, up to 75 points of Armour. When an teammate gains armor from you, instead of 25 points instantly, they gain 40 points over 15 sec.
 
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Good work, but I think that a permenant stumble power is necessary. I don't know why you removed such a thing.
I'm also interested in knowing how the SWAT would be giving armor.
OK, so I LOVE this. Massive improvement over stock SWAT, and very well considered. I have two tiny changes to suggest on top of what you have here.

The first is purely a flavor thing. Berserker is currently immune to clot grab. In order to make the tank feeling of the classes be somewhat different I suggest this change to your first tier:

Heavy Armor Training:
While you have body armour, you only take 50% damage from sonic attacks. When grabbed by a clot, increase the speed of your bash 100%.You begin each game with 50% armour.

The second change would simply be to reflect how support can upgrade his ammo packs given to party members. I think regenerative armor (which I love) is the perfect place to add this.

Regenerative Armor
Killing any zed will regenerate 2 points of armour, up to 75 points of Armour. When an teammate gains armor from you, instead of 25 points instantly, they gain 40 points over 15 sec.
Tanks for the suggestion, I really like where you are going with it overall.

The idea of the SWAT being the secondary tank is a fantastic take and the slight change up with the Heavy armour training is a real reflection of that.
I was wondering where to put an improved armour supply system for the skill tree and just didn't really know what to offer other than giving either ammo or grenades. But when I took a bit of time to consider it, perhaps instead of giving 25 points of armour, you can give 35 points of HEAVY armour that'll sit on top of existing armour. Once the heavy armour value is lost, the armour goes back to being regular armour. (It sounds super wordy but is a lot more simpler in my head).
 
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Good work, but I think that a permenant stumble power is necessary. I don't know why you removed such a thing.
I'm also interested in knowing how the SWAT would be giving armor.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't know where the permanent stumble power came from in the first instance nor where it was removed from.
But for the Armour system, it'd work like it does for the support and demo; where you approach them and collect a flat value of armour from the SWAT
 
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I'm not gonna lie, I don't know where the permanent stumble power came from in the first instance nor where it was removed from.
But for the Armour system, it'd work like it does for the support and demo; where you approach them and collect a flat value of armour from the SWAT
As for HOW the SWAT is giving armor? He's got cheap surplus vests bought by the state that offer *barely* enough protection. They're in a duffel bag kept in the same "hammer space" where you keep the backup P90.
 
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As for HOW the SWAT is giving armor? He's got cheap surplus vests bought by the state that offer *barely* enough protection. They're in a duffel bag kept in the same "hammer space" where you keep the backup P90.
Well lets be honest, HMTech have been able to make healing darts that can track and target a chosen person that isn't a Zed, repair & replace lost flesh in people that doesn't cause an overdose/poisoning but it still poisons Zeds. So a couple duffel bags of kevlar can't be that bad, right?
 
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Took so long to answer back only to basically pat both Wytchphyre's and Breadstick's backs for such a concept. Honestly, the reworked SWAT seems so damn cool and fun to play that I'm now genuinely pissed that we don't have it in the real game.

I obviously don't know how doable it would be for Tripwire to rework an entire perk, but I think I can speak for a vast margin of the community by saying that we would be okay with an update with no new guns (we already got plenty) and instead a rebalancing of a few perks at their core. Hell, I was the one saying "duh, the SWAT is fine as it is" and you convinced me that it could be immensely better. After all... Such a rework would make the perk "feel" brand new, justifying the lack of additions to the people who would complain about an update that brings "nothing but balancing"

I swear I want that bullet hose perk in my life. The Commando with the Stoner or a fully-leveled SWAT are close-but-no-cigar in that regard.

I guess the only thing missing now is a T5 weapon he he he...
 
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Alright, let me dig into this.

Before I start, there is one thing that bothers me with armor-repair skills: Economy. Being able to heal your armor is a huge money-benefit, so it needs more thinking.

My immediate thought is to give SWAT an additional piece of armor. Let's call it Riot Armor. THIS one he can repair via talents or whatnot, but it also DOESN'T transfer over to other perks. He also can't buy more of it, it instead fully repairs between each wave. And it takes priority on damage taken, before regular armor. That way, the economy is not skewed, while you can still play around with Armor-related perks for SWAT.

Now, onto the specific suggestions:

XP:
Getting extra from Siren kills sounds great - in fact I feel this is an enemy that the SMG damagetype could also be particularly strong against, damagewise.

PASSIVES:
* Armor bonus as passive is excellent. Armor-related talents are such a waste, so making this a passive is truly great.
* Damage resistance is fine, but I'd rather buff it to 20 or 25% or so, but make it just resistance against bullets and melee. The "elemental" stuff is something he could be weak against (at least outside of talents)
* 20% movementspeed is mighty high. I do like it, it's quite thematic, but I'd maybe move, at least part of that, to the talents.

TALENTS:
First thing I noticed, which is a big no-no for me: Where's the elite reloads??

* Heavy Armor Training - I'm personally against HAT in general, as it's such a countersynergy to Medics. Adding more armor is not great either, as it's a one and done economy-boost. Those suck.
* Battalion - I like this idea. But not at the cost of losing elite reloads.
* Unwavering - A bit icky for me, as that means you'll be willing to not repair your armor (similar to Resilience Medic's wanting to stay at low health). Big nope for me.
* Always Prepared - It's ok. Except it has problem of being useless without money / resupplies from Demo/Supp / ammo crates. Something truly pasive would be good here too.
* Regenerative Armor + Battering Ram - With the "Riot Armor" concept, it's a great idea to restore some armor mid-combat. Without Riot Armor, it's an economy-booster which I don't like.
* Cripple - Fine as is.
* Speed-load + Fully Automatic - I'm not sure if these conditional temporary buff things work too well in KF2, tbh. It's already a stretch on the Medic. Personally, I don't like them, even if they aren't bad.
* Rapid Assault - It's already very loaded with power. I'd shift some of its potency away (like the stumble bonus).

All in all, I wouldn't be too keen on this rework, personally. I do like the concept of armor-regen (with the Riot Armor concept) and Battalion though. Other than that, I feel it's a bit TOO radical of a rework, honestly.
 
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Alright, let me dig into this.

Before I start, there is one thing that bothers me with armor-repair skills: Economy. Being able to heal your armor is a huge money-benefit, so it needs more thinking.

My immediate thought is to give SWAT an additional piece of armor. Let's call it Riot Armor. THIS one he can repair via talents or whatnot, but it also DOESN'T transfer over to other perks. He also can't buy more of it, it instead fully repairs between each wave. And it takes priority on damage taken, before regular armor. That way, the economy is not skewed, while you can still play around with Armor-related perks for SWAT.

Now, onto the specific suggestions:

XP:
Getting extra from Siren kills sounds great - in fact I feel this is an enemy that the SMG damagetype could also be particularly strong against, damagewise.

PASSIVES:
* Armor bonus as passive is excellent. Armor-related talents are such a waste, so making this a passive is truly great.
* Damage resistance is fine, but I'd rather buff it to 20 or 25% or so, but make it just resistance against bullets and melee. The "elemental" stuff is something he could be weak against (at least outside of talents)
* 20% movementspeed is mighty high. I do like it, it's quite thematic, but I'd maybe move, at least part of that, to the talents.

TALENTS:
First thing I noticed, which is a big no-no for me: Where's the elite reloads??

* Heavy Armor Training - I'm personally against HAT in general, as it's such a countersynergy to Medics. Adding more armor is not great either, as it's a one and done economy-boost. Those suck.
* Battalion - I like this idea. But not at the cost of losing elite reloads.
* Unwavering - A bit icky for me, as that means you'll be willing to not repair your armor (similar to Resilience Medic's wanting to stay at low health). Big nope for me.
* Always Prepared - It's ok. Except it has problem of being useless without money / resupplies from Demo/Supp / ammo crates. Something truly pasive would be good here too.
* Regenerative Armor + Battering Ram - With the "Riot Armor" concept, it's a great idea to restore some armor mid-combat. Without Riot Armor, it's an economy-booster which I don't like.
* Cripple - Fine as is.
* Speed-load + Fully Automatic - I'm not sure if these conditional temporary buff things work too well in KF2, tbh. It's already a stretch on the Medic. Personally, I don't like them, even if they aren't bad.
* Rapid Assault - It's already very loaded with power. I'd shift some of its potency away (like the stumble bonus).

All in all, I wouldn't be too keen on this rework, personally. I do like the concept of armor-regen (with the Riot Armor concept) and Battalion though. Other than that, I feel it's a bit TOO radical of a rework, honestly.
I am going to ask if you seen the updated rework further down this post, I did remove the damage resistance and gave back the weapon switch speed, but if it did stay I'd agree with you being it can't just be a flat resistance like on the SV or the zerk.

Yeah, for the Elite reloads I was unsure as to where to implement them, I guess the best decision would be to Speed-load to keep it thematic in that regard.
I get that its a countersynergy to the medic; then again (in terms of the rework) regardless of if you get extra armour or not, once you remove HAT from SWAT his "tank" potential does plummet as he will always struggle to go toe-to-toe in a horde for burst periods (as the rework entails). The current SWAT, in theory, gives the Field Medic an easier time focusing on the rest of the party and keeping the other four teammates in good health. BUT in practice, I know exactly how you feel, HAT in a vacuum should be good but you lose armour so quickly. Plus during that time you aren't really playing the tank role, you're just trying to survive since our current SWAT can't take any big hits. However I am interested to hear more about your "Riot Armour" skill and what specifics it brings, since at face value it can add some neat value to SWAT as the armour specialist. If said idea finds itself co-existing with a tanky SWAT nicely, I'd love to hear more about it.
The Unwavering skill is very much a horses for courses situation, same as resilience (but I am yet to find someone who does use that outside of solo games) there is nothing inherently wrong with the skill and can be seen in two views, the most popular of someone who won't heal themselves or how I would see it as a "safety net" for when you get into trouble. Hopefully when in conjunction with the regen armour it is seen as a safety net more so than anything because the risk doesn't immediately lead to death, instead it leadsd to no armour and no resistances.
Yeah as for the Always Prepared skill, I would put it with the passive skill, but it already gets the increased mag size and armour increase. My primary thought going into it as a skill is that what the right side of the tree needs to bring tells the player what the general playstyle would be; that being a tanky armour boi on the left, and a bullet hose on the right. Also adding anything else to it would really pull from the Unwavering skill, which you already say is a no go so giving it more reason to be left alone is the last thing I want in reality.
I went for those temp. buffs in particular instead of a damage/defence boost because: it doesn't feel like a cop-out buff, what it brings is something the SWAT is already doing & temporarily makes it better and the FA skill brings something the Medic buffs don't provide. If you have any suggestions for buffs or new skills as a whole, I'd love to hear them.
I felt the Rapid Assault was "good enough" because on its own against a scrake or FP (for instance) it just about finishes one off, but like any Zed time skill its made so much better with good commando synergy. But I do get where you are going since such a reworked skill has a lot going for it and I can't really test these ideas so they might be a touch too OP.

But overall, thanks for the response and feedback. Especially this one since it actually gives a harsher critique that gets me thinking and discussing.
(And I wanna know more about your Riot Gear idea)
 
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