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Problems that come out with Player-ranking and "server report"

RiccardoTheBeAst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
578
126
0
Italy
Hi all, there are some problems that come out with player-ranking and the experience system in the game. Cheaters. But the cheaters aren't the only problem....there's another big problem for which i want to give a new suggestion, a new game function: the "Server report".

Let me explain ;)

My bro has the games CoD World at War and Modern Warfare 2 (but also RO!*) and i can see him playing these games sometime. So, the big problem is that there are many servers that allow you to exp easily and unlock the best weapons and gain levels. In some server you end the match and "magically" you've earned lot of point and new unlocks, on some other servers there is the "free kill" mode: pratically, one team spawns always in the same area (about 2x2 meters) and the players of the other team fire everything they have in this area to do easy kill and then easy gain of points. After that, the players switch team in order to allow everyone to make easy points.

In my opinion there should be a "Server report" function to report suspect/dishonest/cheater servers to some "game admins" or directly to TWI in order to make them do an examination of these servers and then decide to permanently ban them (or time ban or no sanctions if the server is ok, obviously).

Also, i want to ask to TWI how they think to face cheaters and cheated-servers, what they're thinking actually, what's planned. ;)

And you, of the community, give me some feedback! ;) (if something is not understandable, due to my bad english, let me know and ask for clarification ;))
 
Last edited:

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
I guess it would be nice with some conditions for a server to be "ranked". Tough to speculate about these kind of things though, I guess. Somehow this would not really effect me so I would prioritise it low =(.
 

u-s-e-r

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2010
1,332
342
0
Or we could have discussion about bad/good servers on the forums?
 

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
Hmm Riccardo, maybe I misinterpreted you but I thought you were talking about specific servers people "play on" to rank up? Now it sounds more like a general "anti-cheat" issue =).

I seriously doubt that I will play on ranked servers, but I don't know exactly how unranked servers will work. Maybe the player rank does matter on unranked servers. Maybe competitive gaming will make use of heroes.

Anyway that is how I feel. If people really want to play those roles that they need a high rank to, they will get that high rank and that's the end of it. I would still priorotise this quite low =(.
 

RiccardoTheBeAst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
578
126
0
Italy
My...long...post....was deleted....:eek:


Hmm Riccardo, maybe I misinterpreted you but I thought you were talking about specific servers people "play on" to rank up? Now it sounds more like a general "anti-cheat" issue =).

I seriously doubt that I will play on ranked servers, but I don't know exactly how unranked servers will work. Maybe the player rank does matter on unranked servers. Maybe competitive gaming will make use of heroes.

Anyway that is how I feel. If people really want to play those roles that they need a high rank to, they will get that high rank and that's the end of it. I would still priorotise this quite low =(.

Yes, it's a sort of anti-cheat issue :)

But, for what i know, every server will have a rank-requirement for each class....or am i wrong?
 

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
Hm, not sure what you mean with "rank-requirement for each class". In general though I don't know if TWI has said much at all about these kind of things. That which has been said might be chanced too, for better and worse :D.
 

Maraak

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 14, 2011
51
8
0
I'm not really sure what problems you were referring to, but if you are worried that user-made maps are going to be used for exploits: Tripwire will almost definitely test the maps before allowing them to the ranked servers. Maps that Tripwire made themselves will most likely have taken precautions to prevent exploits and spawnrape.
 

RiccardoTheBeAst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
578
126
0
Italy
Hm, not sure what you mean with "rank-requirement for each class". In general though I don't know if TWI has said much at all about these kind of things. That which has been said might be chanced too, for better and worse :D.
Rifleman--> always available--> minimum level 1
Assault--> 6 slot available--> minimum level 2
LMG--> 3 slot available--> minimum level 4

etc etc

for what i know now RO works in this way....or am i wrong? :confused:

from the fact thread:

Character Progression: Players can gain experience and rank. Higher ranked players have access to rare weapons, equipment and classes. Higher ranked players are visually distinct from lower ranked players. If you do poorly, for example tk a lot you can rank down.

I'm not really sure what problems you were referring to, but if you are worried that user-made maps are going to be used for exploits: Tripwire will almost definitely test the maps before allowing them to the ranked servers. Maps that Tripwire made themselves will most likely have taken precautions to prevent exploits and spawnrape.
My second post explained in a better way the problem, but it was deleted for error....btw, yes, exploits and spawnrape are part of the problem, you hit the point ;)
 

Taisenki

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 7, 2010
137
77
0
I have a better solution; Remove global stats. Make character progerssion only cosmetic.


1) It pisses more people off than it pleases. Yet people are too stupid to understand that their brain is wired to like rewards.

"I like it because I like it" syndrome

2) By "pisses people off" I literally mean the following scenarios you are bound to scream at your monitor because your stats have been harmed

"SRASDFGIPASDJFGIP FREAKING LAGGY BASTARD"
"****ING NOOB GRENADE SPAMMER"
"WHERE TF MY TEAM NOOBS"
"STFU KID"
-teabagteabagteabag-
"KILL STEALING MOTHERSARO:RK"


and so on.


3) Whilst we will be more verbally aggressive to other players, our playstyle changes to be more cautious. Examples

"Bugger off I'm not going to the objective I'll just get shot"
"I'm going to be sniper to up my KDR"
"10 guys waiting outside of the objective because nobody wants to go through the door first"
and ofcourse
"Your planting the bomb" -shoots you- "Now I'm planting the bomb for Xp's"






And all this for what? So you can gain a +100 number which unlocks you something to gain more numbers with. Simply put. Your no longer playing the game because the game is enjoyable. Your playing the game because getting rewards is enjoyable. You begin to log on not because of the experience of the game. You log in instead just because in 1500xp's time you'll have that new rifle....

And for what else? So when someone else looks at your C.V stat page somebody might be impressed by the fact you've camped so much to get an insane KDR. You know what I prefer? I prefer showing every living bastard in every server I play on that "I am the best". I have to prove myself EVERY TIME. Oh...but wait. I can't show them I'm a good team player. Because I'm too busy making sure my stats won't get messed up and people won't judge me.

Instead of being the honorable and Brave player that storms through the door taking a few bullets allowing my team mates behind me to perhaps inflict some enemy casulties. I will also hide behind the door hoping someone else gives the same opportunity.



Now I don't relate all these points specifically to Red Orchestra 2. I relate this point to ALL games. Global stats is a massive game changing element. It doesn't affect the game itself but it affects the players. The players, much like AI, DO change the way we perceive the game to be.

In addition to that, Normal stats in server (Press TAB to see your kills/deaths/assists) also changes the game. Since people don't feel as harmed by persistant stat tracking they can sometimes play to be on top or just play for any other reason.
 

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
In ROOST it's jsut first come first serve, if that is what you were wondering about? (all maps have restrictions though)

But yea if it takes 1000 hours to reach max level and to have a higher level has great influence over how you access the less common classes, then RO2 has a problem if people gain high rank in an unfair manner =(.

I still wonder how all these things will work for unranked servers =).
 

ductape3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 13, 2011
280
60
0
My biggest worry about these servers would be that it would create heroes, so that those excellent warriors who are supposed to be leading the army, will be the fools in the back trying to pad their kdr, damaging all of our morale but doing nothing to contribute to the game. I would say that this is an important issue, but not one that the game should be delayed for. If damage control is needed, serves them right to lose their profile.

I also think that it is worth looking into just having the kdr listed in the player profile if at all. Brink has left out kdr completely and the result is a game where people arent afraid to be the spearhead of a charge. They will rush through the door and try to mow down as many as possible so that the next couple behind them can maybe complete the objective. The goal is a team victory and objectives completed rather than stat padding. Even more so because the xp only helps to unlock cosmetic upgrades
 

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
I don't think anyone have suggested to have kdr on the scoreboard =).

From the last video seen it displays: Name, Overall score, Team score, Kills, Ping.
Overall score is just Team score + kills, where team score is perhaps around 85% of the overall score. But I would assume that you get team score for at least some kills (like MGs and Snipers or something). Like more valuable kills or something.
 
Last edited:

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
31
Falmouth UK
On the scoreboard I hope you see a team based score rating and a killing based score rating.

Just so you get an idea what someone is doing but do not see exact K/D ratios. In the stats of the soldiers I hope there is both a K/D ratio and a Kills/Hour ratio. The kills/hour ratio purely to easily show if someone is trying to increase his K/D ratio by hiding and hardly ever making any kills or advancements.
 

triple25mm

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 28, 2010
243
89
0
25
Darlington, UK
I think scrapping the whole kdr and heroes thing would be the best solution. In ROOST, when I see familiar names that I have often seen before, and I know they are good, to me they already have a good reputation and I respect them. You don't need a game to tell you this; infact, as many people have mentioned in this thread, there may be ways to abuse the rank system so you can advance up the ranks quicker. Seeing someone who is a "hero" doesn't really mean anything.

And, I think, if, hero's are always in the lead, then, it might, mean that the bonuses they get, may, give them an unfair advantage. And, if they arn't in the lead, then WHY THE **** ARE THEY HEROES?!???!?!?

edit: I spelt heroes with only 1 "e"! :eek:
 

VariousNames

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 6, 2009
1,226
521
0
I think map whitelisting + VAC should be sufficient to fill this role.

Tripwire really should not have to deal with the influx of errant reports on custom map servers that aren't even on the whitelist. Plus, this suggestion strikes me as a little 1984.

I don't understand why you would give a **** what people are doing in their own game server. This is really the whole problem with "metagames." I don't raise a fit if someone cheats in a personal game of chess played with their children, because ultimately it doesn't affect any other games of chess or hurt the integrity of chess as a product.

Now, somebody cheats in my game of chess...
 

Snuffeldjuret

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2010
1,786
373
0
Goteborg, Sweden
But dear VariousNames, that is what this thread is about. If someone "cheats" on his server and achives max rank, then instead of you he will be offered the Hero class more than he should.
 

VariousNames

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 6, 2009
1,226
521
0
But dear VariousNames, that is what this thread is about. If someone "cheats" on his server and achives max rank, then instead of you he will be offered the Hero class more than he should.
A) there are ranked and unranked servers, and ranked servers will presumably have to play on whitelisted maps like on Killing Floor. Offering "ranked" status to a server should be a privilege, for instance you could apply towards ranked status based on map rotation and running a clean version.

B) if they "cheat" on their server and you do NOT have a metagame, all of this nonsense is irrelevant because there are no ranks to be exploited, problem solved. This is why I brought up A) because what somebody does on an unranked server won't concern you anyway. Or at least it shouldn't. See A).
No one should receive hero ranks at all, so whether someone gets them more than usual is also meaningless. As far as I'm concerned, the entire hero system is hurting the integrity of the product far more than any person exploiting the system to unlock end-content. If anything, to ensure fairness, that content should be available to everyone or no one. The question of fairness is an absolute non-starter, because you've already forgone that with the introduction of the system in the first place.
 
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RiccardoTheBeAst

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2009
578
126
0
Italy
Wait guys, lot of people is talking about "unranked servers" but.....will there be unranked servers?

The ranking system was introduced in HoS to resolve the problems that actually occur in OST: in OST the rarest class are chosen from the players with fastest PC or that don't need do download the map (and the relative mods). So, if you have a slow pc or if you must download the next map, then you'll be obliged to use rifleman or one of the most common classes (i want to specify that i'm always in the first 3-4 players that load the maps, so, i'm not talking for personal gain, but for the community).

Then, are you sure that there will be unranked servers?