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#21
Regarding the BOB and SPR:

An interessting interview with a guy that served in vietnam:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2001/10/05/dale_dye_2001_1_interview.shtml

Teaser:
[SIZE=-1] How do you reach the balance between sensationalistic gore versus realistic combat action?
It is a balancing act. If we take the example of the first 20 minutes of "Saving Private Ryan", I did slather on the gore but that was because Omaha Beach was a literal meat grinder. It was a man-killer. That's not revisionist at all. These things happened. We actually talked to the guy that picked up his arm and staggered across the beach. That's the real deal. I've been there, where the gore is slathered on whether you like it or not. If that's the way it was, good, that's the way we'll show it. If it wasn't we will not show it that way.
[/SIZE]

---------------------------
Finz said:
Back on topic?
Nice footage close to the end of the war and 1st time i see an IS2 in a vid, destroyed tho. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQlUFpocSgU&mode=related&search=
Click to expand...

Yes back to topic :)

Good footage... damn that stupid music tho...
 
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#22
Teq said:
Some of the stuff is dramatisized to keep the common persons low span 5 minute attention....
But some of it seems informative.
Give comments after studying this...
Click to expand...
Most stuff is choreographed for low attention span. Casual movie goers don't want to watch an actual battle depicted precisely as it went down because it would'nt fit into one 10 minute highly digestable ball of adrenaline & glory. All proclaimed war movies do this it's no secret, they take a real story or event, interview some vets for credibility then they make the movie THEY were going to make anyway! Which is everything is condensed and elements are "arranged" for maximum WOW factor. Did these events really occur? Yes of course but not in the manner (or timespan) depicted. Another area where they go off the rails is in the sound department. Why don't they use the actual sound of the guns firing? (make the volume lower than reality so as not to deafen moviegoers) I know why, because that would make the movie alot more realistic and unnerving, disturbing, and a truer picture of war and less glorious & ethical from an American perspective in the general publics eyes. How about close up damage/headshots/blown off limbs/guts hanging out of the Germans? Or Americans don't do those things....mmmmk. I don't like this idea that permeates war films that the Americans are just killing out of neccessity and every kill they commit is put in the best possible light while the Germans are headshotting/shrapnel to the best buddys head/ arm severing/soldier running over/ evil doers. American glory is always played up to the MAX while their killing is ALWAYS ALWAYS minimized in the best possible light.
 
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#24
Quietus said:
Most stuff is choreographed for low attention span. Casual movie goers don't want to watch an actual battle depicted precisely as it went down because it would'nt fit into one 10 minute highly digestable ball of adrenaline & glory. All proclaimed war movies do this it's no secret, they take a real story or event, interview some vets for credibility then they make the movie THEY were going to make anyway! Which is everything is condensed and elements are "arranged" for maximum WOW factor. Did these events really occur? Yes of course but not in the manner (or timespan) depicted. Another area where they go off the rails is in the sound department. Why don't they use the actual sound of the guns firing? (make the volume lower than reality so as not to deafen moviegoers) I know why, because that would make the movie alot more realistic and unnerving, disturbing, and a truer picture of war and less glorious & ethical from an American perspective in the general publics eyes. How about close up damage/headshots/blown off limbs/guts hanging out of the Germans? Or Americans don't do those things....mmmmk. I don't like this idea that permeates war films that the Americans are just killing out of neccessity and every kill they commit is put in the best possible light while the Germans are headshotting/shrapnel to the best buddys head/ arm severing/soldier running over/ evil doers. American glory is always played up to the MAX while their killing is ALWAYS ALWAYS minimized in the best possible light.
Click to expand...


I love how I can't even visit a Red Orchestra forum without finding anti-American sentiment. It's like, trendy now. :rolleyes:

(You must not have watched SPR or BoB all the way through, have you?)
 
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#25
Quietus said:
Most stuff is choreographed for low attention span. Casual movie goers don't want to watch an actual battle depicted precisely as it went down because it would'nt fit into one 10 minute highly digestable ball of adrenaline & glory. All proclaimed war movies do this it's no secret, they take a real story or event, interview some vets for credibility then they make the movie THEY were going to make anyway! Which is everything is condensed and elements are "arranged" for maximum WOW factor. Did these events really occur? Yes of course but not in the manner (or timespan) depicted. Another area where they go off the rails is in the sound department. Why don't they use the actual sound of the guns firing? (make the volume lower than reality so as not to deafen moviegoers) I know why, because that would make the movie alot more realistic and unnerving, disturbing, and a truer picture of war and less glorious & ethical from an American perspective in the general publics eyes. How about close up damage/headshots/blown off limbs/guts hanging out of the Germans? Or Americans don't do those things....mmmmk. I don't like this idea that permeates war films that the Americans are just killing out of neccessity and every kill they commit is put in the best possible light while the Germans are headshotting/shrapnel to the best buddys head/ arm severing/soldier running over/ evil doers. American glory is always played up to the MAX while their killing is ALWAYS ALWAYS minimized in the best possible light.
Click to expand...

I must say that I agree. When I watched the movie both SPR and BOB, I got anoyed that you could only view from american side only...
Well maybe it would be abit more expensive and time consuming portraying both sides... but I really missed that one...
The Germans seem abit not human in all those films.. except for that one film where they have some german POW's which turns out to be a friend of one of the american soldiers...

Another thing I miss in many of those films is more 1st person views...
where you can trace the shots to the target...
They allways angle the camera on the shooter when they fire.. and not both the shooter and the target...

Well the negative list is long, but Still I think there are things to learn from the physical parts of it.
Regarding the sounds, I think its natural, cause in real life the sound does not Peak like the electronical sounds do... I dont know if iM wrong here...
 
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#26
IncredibleGeek said:
I love how I can't even visit a Red Orchestra forum without finding anti-American sentiment. It's like, trendy now. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I wouldn't know as I don't follow trends.

(You must not have watched SPR or BoB all the way through, have you?)
Click to expand...
Actually I've seen both all the way through more than once. I Saw SPR (1st time) in 1998 when it first came out in theatres.
 
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#28
mungokang said:
I hate those comments on youtube only retarded ppl there :>
Click to expand...

Hmm.. seem like they are pretty agressive....
Like 10 dogs and one chunk of meat....
No wonder there are wars.... :(

The fun part is that many conflict is due to misintrepretations that could be solved just by asking a few open questions....
But then again, people would die of boredom if it wherent for wars it seems...

Peace = boredom...

Look at the allied recruitment posters from WWII.....
The Media said that the war fought a noble cause saving the world from hitler... but hehe.. the posters said:
"WANT SOME ACTION? JOIN THE NAVY NOW!"
haha
 
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#31
Reise said:
Heh I always wonder where the hull gunner on that Tiger tank is in that clip of SPR. Must've been asleep or something lol. Just imagine the damage he would've been able to cause.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think the whole tank crew was under direct orders from Speilberg to "act retarded" good thing that Mustang saved "the boys" from the Tiger & it's retarded crew. *Whew*
 
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#32
Teq said:
Saving private ryan:

Defending the bridge against hords of germans w/ lack of manpower, muntions and equipment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOP0nlcRCg

*** Gives good feel of suppression effect (sound and human reaction), Impact puffs, and Movement under fire.

---------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

The scene takes place at the same location as the dod 1.3 map dod_sturm (previously dod_merderet). Fun trivia. :)
 
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#34
Quietus said:
Yeah, I think the whole tank crew was under direct orders from Speilberg to "act retarded" good thing that Mustang saved "the boys" from the Tiger & it's retarded crew. *Whew*
Click to expand...

haha yes... Hmm wonder why spielberg didnt think about that... or anyone?!?!
I mean if you create a movie for 1.200.000 dollars, I would atleast work abit with details such as that...
 
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#36
This must be the most ar-tarded discussion on this forum ever. Nobody who has been in the army can ever say that BoB or SPR would be realistic. Or dare you, Teq, say which army has supported your sense of realism? The Hollywood Militia?

The thing that strikes me the most about these Hollywood films is that the enemy is always seen as a passive obstacle. When have the Germans ever showed that they might have tactics? On Omaha beach they're just sitting and shooting, in the scene around the ruined mill (is it?) they're sitting and shooting, in the ending sequence they walk up to the village and keep walking the same routes even though people are getting shot left and right. The village is full of flanking possibilities, and they're not even trying to establish a base of fire! WTF? The only thing that causes any damage is their "super gun" (the Germans need to have super guns to cause damage, right?), i.e. the quad AA, which they wheel around the city like a bunch of morons. Who the hell attacks into an urban area with a quad AA, even if it is mounted on a wheeled base?

And BoB... a platoon shooting up a battallion of SS troops on an open field?

What are the SS troops doing when they discover that they are under fire? Yeah, they run up to the Americans without, apparently, even thinking about shooting back... And the second company? Oh, that one crosses the ridge and, yeah, runs at the Americans. Why not establish a base of fire on the ridge, shoot the standing Americans (yes, they're standing like it's a turkey shoot) and/or flank them? The high ridge would allow any number of troops to go to the American right flank with perfect cover.

Ah yes, but ze Germans are schtupid and ev0l.
 
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#37
Vonreuter said:
This must be the most ar-tarded discussion on this forum ever. Nobody who has been in the army can ever say that BoB or SPR would be realistic. Or dare you, Teq, say which army has supported your sense of realism? The Hollywood Militia?

The thing that strikes me the most about these Hollywood films is that the enemy is always seen as a passive obstacle. When have the Germans ever showed that they might have tactics? On Omaha beach they're just sitting and shooting, in the scene around the ruined mill (is it?) they're sitting and shooting, in the ending sequence they walk up to the village and keep walking the same routes even though people are getting shot left and right. The village is full of flanking possibilities, and they're not even trying to establish a base of fire! WTF? The only thing that causes any damage is their "super gun" (the Germans need to have super guns to cause damage, right?), i.e. the quad AA, which they wheel around the city like a bunch of morons. Who the hell attacks into an urban area with a quad AA, even if it is mounted on a wheeled base?

And BoB... a platoon shooting up a battallion of SS troops on an open field?

What are the SS troops doing when they discover that they are under fire? Yeah, they run up to the Americans without, apparently, even thinking about shooting back... And the second company? Oh, that one crosses the ridge and, yeah, runs at the Americans. Why not establish a base of fire on the ridge, shoot the standing Americans (yes, they're standing like it's a turkey shoot) and/or flank them? The high ridge would allow any number of troops to go to the American right flank with perfect cover.

Ah yes, but ze Germans are schtupid and ev0l.
Click to expand...
Once again I agree 100%. Germans are always treated like you said a "passive obstacle". Apparently all the Germans know how to do is sit in an exposed position with their heads sticking up and wait for Band of asskickers to plink the target pasted on their heads *ding* 5 points! Of course Germans caught in a field behave much like a flock of pea brained quail just mindlessly shuffling away while they await their assigned M1garand round to the torso which produces a giant puff of course (Germans always release puffs of dust when Americans shoot them). *Sigh* Yeah I've pretty much given up on hollywood ever making a war movie that doesn't insult the intelligence of people who have a reasonable knowledge of war & tactics.
 
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#38
Vonreuter said:
This must be the most ar-tarded discussion on this forum ever. Nobody who has been in the army can ever say that BoB or SPR would be realistic. Or dare you, Teq, say which army has supported your sense of realism? The Hollywood Militia?

The thing that strikes me the most about these Hollywood films is that the enemy is always seen as a passive obstacle. When have the Germans ever showed that they might have tactics? On Omaha beach they're just sitting and shooting, in the scene around the ruined mill (is it?) they're sitting and shooting, in the ending sequence they walk up to the village and keep walking the same routes even though people are getting shot left and right. The village is full of flanking possibilities, and they're not even trying to establish a base of fire! WTF? The only thing that causes any damage is their "super gun" (the Germans need to have super guns to cause damage, right?), i.e. the quad AA, which they wheel around the city like a bunch of morons. Who the hell attacks into an urban area with a quad AA, even if it is mounted on a wheeled base?

And BoB... a platoon shooting up a battallion of SS troops on an open field?

What are the SS troops doing when they discover that they are under fire? Yeah, they run up to the Americans without, apparently, even thinking about shooting back... And the second company? Oh, that one crosses the ridge and, yeah, runs at the Americans. Why not establish a base of fire on the ridge, shoot the standing Americans (yes, they're standing like it's a turkey shoot) and/or flank them? The high ridge would allow any number of troops to go to the American right flank with perfect cover.

Ah yes, but ze Germans are schtupid and ev0l.
Click to expand...


thank you kamerad true words
 
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#40
This must be the most ar-tarded discussion on this forum ever. Nobody who has been in the army can ever say that BoB or SPR would be realistic. Or dare you, Teq, say which army has supported your sense of realism? The Hollywood Militia?

The thing that strikes me the most about these Hollywood films is that the enemy is always seen as a passive obstacle. When have the Germans ever showed that they might have tactics? On Omaha beach they're just sitting and shooting, in the scene around the ruined mill (is it?) they're sitting and shooting, in the ending sequence they walk up to the village and keep walking the same routes even though people are getting shot left and right. The village is full of flanking possibilities, and they're not even trying to establish a base of fire! WTF? The only thing that causes any damage is their "super gun" (the Germans need to have super guns to cause damage, right?), i.e. the quad AA, which they wheel around the city like a bunch of morons. Who the hell attacks into an urban area with a quad AA, even if it is mounted on a wheeled base?

And BoB... a platoon shooting up a battallion of SS troops on an open field?

What are the SS troops doing when they discover that they are under fire? Yeah, they run up to the Americans without, apparently, even thinking about shooting back... And the second company? Oh, that one crosses the ridge and, yeah, runs at the Americans. Why not establish a base of fire on the ridge, shoot the standing Americans (yes, they're standing like it's a turkey shoot) and/or flank them? The high ridge would allow any number of troops to go to the American right flank with perfect cover.

Ah yes, but ze Germans are schtupid and ev0l.
Click to expand...
Ah well, I've posted what scenes I think was realistic that could inspire RO not what I DIDNT...
If there any comments to THOSE scenes well, lets discuss.
And yes I dare say that there are elements of realism in BOB and SPR
My reference is based on serving in the Norwegian army, have friends in the foreign legion and norwegian paratroopers, and been instructing a marine soldier in unarmed combat.

I totally agree on the part on the German tactics & behaviour and many other If u read ALL the posts... (which you prob didnt)
But as said, My point of realism was not german tactics.....
Ofcourse its hollywood, but still there are things that can inspire RO as theese 2 films are the only films that has a slight portrait of realism....
IF YOU guys have anything better, well post it in this thread!

Thats why I opened it :p !

Yes I've been to millitary service and learned basic infantry tactics for indoor, field and in towns.

I've seen a few reality vids of ppl getting shot ie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZePHJ4C-x1Q

This is done well in both movies, like some ppl say here, most people fall backwards in RO... should be able to just drop down from the posision you where at...

Well, I've posted this, and if you are here just to jerk off and squirt at peoples faces, I suggest you open a thread for that :)
 
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