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Ping fix

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#47
Father Ted said:
If it's so difficult to hit a moving target, how come I keep getting shot?
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Get enough bullets thrown at you, and someone's going to get lucky at some point.

If you want to see the phenomenon in an obvious form, find someone with a bolt action rifle and run random zig-zags while you charge them. Repeat that a few times. See often they actually manage to hit you. It'll happen now and then, but the usual outcome is that they get stabbed.

Or, even better, find someone covering a doorway / wreckage gap / whatever, where you can run across their narrow line of sight without stopping. Sprint straight across the gap from one side to the other. See if anyone ever manages to hit you. It literally cannot be done. At all. The only way they can hit you is to start firing before they see you.
 
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#48
Mekhazzio said:
Get enough bullets thrown at you, and someone's going to get lucky at some point.

If you want to see the phenomenon in an obvious form, find someone with a bolt action rifle and run random zig-zags while you charge them. Repeat that a few times. See often they actually manage to hit you. It'll happen now and then, but the usual outcome is that they get stabbed.

Or, even better, find someone covering a doorway / wreckage gap / whatever, where you can run across their narrow line of sight without stopping. Sprint straight across the gap from one side to the other. See if anyone ever manages to hit you. It literally cannot be done. At all. The only way they can hit you is to start firing before they see you.
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First case - that happens even more often in COD and BF, when you open fire on someone in the room, and they still manage to charge you with a knife and kill you when you've emptied half your magazine into them.
And for the second case - yeah, it's so much better when every freaking time you get fine to safety, and then you die a second later, cause Billy on the other side managed to kill you.
 
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#49
Bayonet is actually more dependable than bullets.
This forces me to use a tactic which is rush rush rush. Frantic rush to kill the enemy actually rewards you rather than a deliberate, tactical approach.
This is wrong fundamentally, and it's not ROesque.
I'm surprised the devs haven't nerfed the bayo yet. Or have they?
Nobody complained that bayo kills in 1 shot?
 
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#51
Devil_Inside said:
First case - that happens even more often in COD and BF, when you open fire on someone in the room, and they still manage to charge you with a knife and kill you when you've emptied half your magazine into them.
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Yes, and? Your hits take effect just like their stab does, and you both drop dead. This is distinctly different from the RO2 outcome where what you see as a hit is not actually a hit and thus will not have an effect at all, you simply get stabbed and he runs off to stab someone else.

If the stabber has enough faster of a connection to the server than you do, then their attack will preempt yours in either networking model, and that's the downside of getting out-pinged. This is especially a problem in CoD and its peer-to-peer methods that have some players running listen servers and the obvious advantages that gives. However, it's a not-unheard-of design choice to validate client hit messages even after the shooter's death on the server, at which point the shots wouldn't be preempted anyway. Win-win.
And for the second case - yeah, it's so much better when every freaking time you get fine to safety, and then you die a second later, cause Billy on the other side managed to kill you.
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You're misunderstanding the situation. You didn't get to safety. You might have the illusion of it, but what you see is not reality. That's kind of the whole point with playing time-sensitive games on the internet. The reality of the game world has to be negotiated. It doesn't matter how you go about doing that, because unless you use a purely server-mandated model, then what you see in your game is always, in some manner, wrong. (note: nobody has used this since Quake 1. For a reason)

This "dying behind the corner" illusion is already in RO2. Where you think you are on your client is not where the server sees you. If you're shot while at a full sprint, at 150ms ping, you actually died about half a meter behind where you saw yourself die. Adding in client-side hit detection roughly doubles that. Maybe Boris in Siberia is playing with Juan in Peru, and you go all the way up to quadrupling that. 2 meter difference now. Is that what's worth giving up any pretense of fidelity in the shooting? All the cries of "hit detection bug", "you must be cheating", and all the others? Is all that worth it, just so a misunderstood phenomenon is reduced a little?
 
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#52
Mekhazzio said:
You're misunderstanding the situation. You didn't get to safety. You might have the illusion of it, but what you see is not reality. That's kind of the whole point with playing time-sensitive games on the internet. The reality of the game world has to be negotiated. It doesn't matter how you go about doing that, because unless you use a purely server-mandated model, then what you see in your game is always, in some manner, wrong. (note: nobody has used this since Quake 1. For a reason)
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Don't start me on this "You didn't get to safety, you had the illusion of it", lol.
If Boris in Siberia is using a dial-up connection, I don't want his action to be decisive on the whole server. It might be great for him. But it would be bad for the 90% of the players that have an "ok" ping.

I don't think that the cries about "dying around the corner" will be any better than cries about "hit detection". 98% of the time I have no problems with hit detection even with 120ms ping.
 
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#54
Mekhazzio said:
If you want to see the phenomenon in an obvious form, find someone with a bolt action rifle and run random zig-zags while you charge them. Repeat that a few times. See often they actually manage to hit you. It'll happen now and then, but the usual outcome is that they get stabbed.

Or, even better, find someone covering a doorway / wreckage gap / whatever, where you can run across their narrow line of sight without stopping. Sprint straight across the gap from one side to the other. See if anyone ever manages to hit you. It literally cannot be done. At all. The only way they can hit you is to start firing before they see you.
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lol.. Average speed for a 9mm handgun round is about 370 yards (1100 feet) per second. Some large caliber rifle rounds travel at speeds up to and beyond 1340 yards (4000 feet) per second.

With that in mind, i find it funny that i have to lead people (depending on if my ping is 60 or 200+) by around 1-3 yards when they are only about 20-30 yards away from me..

Lets do some math!

Lets say my bullet is traveling 1000 yards per second..
And my target is 30 yards away..
That means it should take 0.03 seconds to reach its target..
The average running speed of a human is 7.33 yards per second..
That means your target should move about 0.004 yards between the trigger pull and bullet impact..
Now, 0.03 seconds is equal to 30 milliseconds..
30 milliseconds should be equal to a ping measurement of 30 ping..
If we add 180 ping (The average ping on 50+ player server) to that calculation we get 0.21 seconds..

This means that before your computer can even send a third ping/packet (Third bullet) to the server, the server should have already registered that player HIT/Dead, assuming the hit registered.. if it even registered in the first place..

This data suggests that there are major problems with RO2 and its current ping/netcode/hitreg/ping compensation system.. Considering the amount of lead required to hit a target at a distance of 30 yards (which is my average engagement range with an MKB/SMG)

I would love to see this process optimized by TWI in the next patch, because it obviously isn't preforming like it should be.

Tips for TWI: look at Counter-Strike's netcode and hit detection model as an example of how it should work.

-plex

EDIT: not to mention you shouldn't have to lead a person AT ALL at these distances.... and when they are zig-zaging toward you, you should be able to aim very slightly ahead if not directly at them and kill them.
 
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#55
Plex is correct. This game's serious issue is the gunplay. This really needs to be worked out to get a player base back. I rifle or machinegun should not require leeding your shots for at least 80 yards. Smg's for around 40-80, taking in effect the time of travel from A to B.

Something needs to be done, this is NOT realistic, and thwarts gameplay.
 
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#56
ihatemayo said:
Plex is correct. This game's serious issue is the gunplay. This really needs to be worked out to get a player base back. I rifle or machinegun should not require leeding your shots for at least 80 yards. Smg's for around 40-80, taking in effect the time of travel from A to B.

Something needs to be done, this is NOT realistic, and thwarts gameplay.
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I do agree to some degree, but I do enjoy leading the shot. With the zoom now, I'd say reduce the requirement by half so 40 yardish.
What I do not like is compensating for the lag, like the OP said.
Leading shot by itself with no kick from the latency is more fun and challenging.
But definitely not right in front. I remember shooting a PPSH just as he's shooting me but I die while the guy runs away because of things like this.
 
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#59
Machete234 said:
In CS you can tweak your net settings so that you see the enemy earlier than he sees you. :rolleyes:
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Well im just trying to give a good example of hit reg and ping compensation.

But yes, your right, i remember a console function that allowed you to modify the placement or "lag" of hit-boxes thus allowing you to easily snipe people through double doors.. i think they patched that so it cant be modified anymore. :p
 
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#60
They didnt patch it because its hard coded, when you lower your lerp or what they call it you will see the enemy earlier in some situations.

So when you have a good connection that can handle these more agressive settings you get even more of an advantage on top of your probably allready better ping.

And then the ballistics are straight lines in CS and are calculated clientside.
 
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