New Perk: Chemist

[[UIT] Akame]

Doesn't have to be that particular one but if TWI was adding new weapons, it would be nice if they were actually different from ones already in game.

Not that I think any content updates are coming up that most of these suggestions will have any bearing on.

 

[EricFong]

It just proves you didn't read the first post. I didn't mention gunslinger at all.



I see. But still, he needs something to "kick some" with. And it still doesn't have many bullets and is expensive. Not to mention it's REALLY close to LAW but still WEAKER as it has alot smaller capacity. The only purpose for it I see is blasting many zeds and waiting for their slow death if they even survive, or waste it on Patty who'd survive it, but would wander around with green (I suggest) fog around him, so even his invisiblity doesn't help. Rather usefull perk, yet ballanced IMO. But if in your opinion isn't ballanced, you can just tell what should be modified (but not removed, unless you have a better example for weapon/skill instead)



Example of worse ones: Gunslinger



It's okay. I didn't notice those, yet I noticed flare like around some minutes after I made this thread. I am not sure if someone posted it shortly before me or copied it from me. And I do believe the rapid fire gun was also suggested, though I didn't rly care bout rapid fire as much as for grenade launcher



Should it be named then M16&M203? Seriously, this IS a QUESTION

Oh, Yoshi did mention the gunslinger may not added on this update, but it may be in future.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=653389#post653389

It is M16w/M203.

 

[BenioX]

Okay, and that's what I wanted. I first need ideas for weapons. All I say is Grenade Launcher stays, and Syringe, and Flare gun. And yes, Chemicals also ARE explosive and incendiary. Chemicals are even TNT. The only difference is the point of Chemist isn't to use chemicals to destroy buildings or to kill hordes in explosive sprees, but spread some disease around. I didn't rly explain chemicals works yet, but what I meant was these guns leave clouds of chemicals relative to type of the weapon. The bigger boom, the bigger cloud. This cloud is kind of like L4D Smoker's when it damages, but stays on specimens for some time depending on Chemist's level. And yeah, I was thinking of some kind of Plasma gun, but that'd not rly fit KF imo. I wanted this stay as realistic as it could be.
And if this idea appears to be good, I'd even maybe dedicade some months of my life on working on this to get it to work somehow, maybe as mutator, that I don't know. But I'd do all my best.

 

[The_Holy_Diver]

@BenioX
Okay if these chemicals leaves a cloud around that is deadly, what will the effect be on the players who aren't wearing gas masks? I would assume the chemicals are deadly to the specimens so what stops them from being deadly to the player who is not a chemist?

 

[BenioX]

@BenioX
Okay if these chemicals leaves a cloud around that is deadly, what will the effect be on the players who aren't wearing gas masks? I would assume the chemicals are deadly to the specimens so what stops them from being deadly to the player who is not a chemist?

Well, you can ask as well why firebug can't set on fire team mates unless at Friendly Fire on servers.

 

[The_Holy_Diver]

@BenioX
Very true, I didn't even think of that. < Point proven. Will there be something for Friendly Fire servers?

 

[BenioX]

@BenioX
Very true, I didn't even think of that. < Point proven. Will there be something for Friendly Fire servers?

Should be as well as the firebug grenades. Perhaps not much damage though, and healable. Maybe for example something what works like Bloat's puke, except it doesn't end untill you get healed by medic or any team mate or any like that. I'd re-think about it. I see you actually are up to work some things out on it. Maybe some suggestions? I am writing all of those down and after I and friend are done with Destroyer, we'd try our best to make Chemist work. We found this idea actually pratctical, not breaking any ballance and of course fun. My friend already made some mini-chemist weapons on his offline version of KF - modified Xbow with poisoned darts (makes bloat damage + 1/3 xbow damage, but is double as quick and with 75 ammo capacity), Mini-Nuke (L.A.W with Bloat's puke effect on the area of blast for 10 seconds. A little bugged as when he gets in the area he gets bloat pukes on himself, should be resistant I think) and adrenaline syringe (though since he tried it offline only he only can check if it works on self-implementing the syringe. We dunno if it works on others though).

So, if u got any ideas, let me hear them.

 

[The_Holy_Diver]

@BenioX
Sounds good, honestly I would love to see what your talking about. Play it for a bit as well ^_^ Great idea man I'll try to think of some things for it? Bloat puke tipped bolts? +1

 

[4Blue]

Should be as well as the firebug grenades. Perhaps not much damage though, and healable. Maybe for example something what works like Bloat's puke, except it doesn't end untill you get healed by medic or any team mate or any like that. I'd re-think about it. I see you actually are up to work some things out on it. Maybe some suggestions? I am writing all of those down and after I and friend are done with Destroyer, we'd try our best to make Chemist work. We found this idea actually pratctical, not breaking any ballance and of course fun. My friend already made some mini-chemist weapons on his offline version of KF - modified Xbow with poisoned darts (makes bloat damage + 1/3 xbow damage, but is double as quick and with 75 ammo capacity), Mini-Nuke (L.A.W with Bloat's puke effect on the area of blast for 10 seconds. A little bugged as when he gets in the area he gets bloat pukes on himself, should be resistant I think) and adrenaline syringe (though since he tried it offline only he only can check if it works on self-implementing the syringe. We dunno if it works on others though).

So, if u got any ideas, let me hear them.

I like your idea of a perk chemist and you have my support because you have thought of everything perfectly and it's very interesting ... Awesome Idea ...

 

[BenioX]

Okay I played with friends a little here and there with the Chemist alpha. I realised Bloat-damage isn't rly what I wanted. OFC works but not AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO. But is it possible to make something like Smoker fog damage from Left 4 Dead? Maybe modify the fog from grenades and launchers into one which damages like bloat. That'd be actually what I need, but it also should last for period of time depending on weapon. Really, my friends don't know how to do it. All they can do is add bloat damage to weapons...

 

[Undedd Jester]

Okay, I'm not slandering the idea, cause there has been a fair degree of thought thats gone into it. However a few things erk me with it right off the bat.

Warning! Wall Of Text!

Spoiler!

Firstly the whole concept of "Chemical" damage. You say its basically fire but 50% less damage and lasts longer. So my first issue is, since this is obviously a DoT effect on things like M!6 bullets and grenades... what makes it seperate from the Firebug and his Mac 10 or incendiary nades? Its base damage with a DoT effect virutally identical to fire, except it lacks as much damage and doesn't cause trhe crisp up effect. So this seems to encrouch on the already underused Firebug's territory.

Second your choice of weapons also encrouches on other perks territory.
- Flare Gun = weak M79 launcher with incendiary nades
- M16 = Bullpup with Mac-10 like incendiary rounds and effectively another flare gun attached to it.
- Mini atom bomb launcher = LAW with Incendiary Rockets.
So basically you have combined the firebug with Commando and Demoman weaponry.
Flare Gun logically should be a FIrebug weapon, so new players will fall into that trap.
A Commando can use assault rifles so the M16 should logically recieve a damage bonus for him, again making no sense for new players.
The M203 on the M16 should also logically recieve a Demo boost and the mini bomb launcher should recieve the same.
The arguement "These are chemical weapons" doesn't address the fact that the basic function of these weapons match other perks bonus'.

Thirdly the Adrenaline buff creates balance problems up the rump, especially with 30 minute boosts. Even if it was only 1 minute per shot it would still cause problems. Sharpshooters suddenly able to outrun standard Zeds while nuking them with Xbow shots? Berserkers and Medics out running everything with a massive 30% speed? (32% actually since 10% of 120% movement speed is 12). I'm pretty sure thats faster than even the Patriarch.

Fourthly? (and don't take this the wrong way) but the whole thing sounds extremely loose. There is no description of realistically how these poison "darts" work. Some kind of explosion to fire darts within a certain ara like a grenade? I'm pretty sure the vials holding the poison AND the needles required to inject the ZEDs with this poison would be destroyed. An airborne virus configured to the specimens genetic structure I might believe, but given the nature of virus' mthey would either act really slow, or kill things instantly. But even that aside, it just seems the idea of a "Chemical Expert" perk jsut doesn't fit in with the other porks in the game.

Finally a big problem with the Chemist is he doesn't really have enough of a unique inherant ability. Looking at other perks and ignoring their weapon damage you have: -
- Medic: Greater Healing, Speed, Syringe Regeneration, Bloat Resistance, Stronger Armour, Armour Damage Reduction.
- Support: Carry Weight, Welding Doors, Penetration (Supp), Ammunition (Supp), Grenades
- Sharpshooter: Headshot Bonus, Lower Recoil (Sharps), Faster Reload (Sharps)
- Commando: Faster Reload, Health Bars, Cloaked Specimens, Zed Extensions, Lower Recoil (Comm), Bigger Clip (Comm)
- Berserker: No Grab, Damage Resistance, Bloat Resistance, Speed (Zerk), Zed Extension, Faster Attack (Zerk),
- Firebug: Incendiary Nades, Fire Resistance, Reload Speed (Fire), Ammuntion (Fire), Range (Fire)
- Demolitions: Explosive Resistance, Pipe Bombs Capacity, Grenades

- Chemist: Penetration (Chem), Adrenaline Shots, DoT Extension (Chem)

Penetration is a duplicate of Support (which is fine, but he needs more unique ones), Adrenaline shots would be broken and need drastically rethinking anyway, with the only real unique ability being DoT Extension, which by itself isn't enough to build the perk around.

Overall the the perk jsut isn't fleshed out enough in my opinion, and doesn't really fit the combat expert kind of style of the other classes. I'd personally have to say I am not a big fan of the idea. As always though keep thinking, I'm always happy to be proved wrong.

 

[BenioX]

Thirdly the Adrenaline buff creates balance problems up the rump, especially with 30 minute boosts. Even if it was only 1 minute per shot it would still cause problems. Sharpshooters suddenly able to outrun standard Zeds while nuking them with Xbow shots? Berserkers and Medics out running everything with a massive 30% speed? (32% actually since 10% of 120% movement speed is 12). I'm pretty sure thats faster than even the Patriarch.

OH MAN! Sorry that was just a typo! I corrected it. Wasn't meant to be MINUTES but SECONDS!!!!! My fault!

how these poison "darts" work. Some kind of explosion to fire darts within a certain ara like a grenade?

No

I'm pretty sure the vials holding the poison AND the needles required to inject the ZEDs with this poison would be destroyed. An airborne virus configured to the specimens genetic structure I might believe, but given the nature of virus' mthey would either act really slow

Yes. But didn't think of slow-down effect. Good idea. Noting it down.

Adrenaline shots would be broken and need drastically rethinking anyway, with the only real unique ability being DoT Extension, which by itself isn't enough to build the perk around.

I fixed the adrenaline description. Meant to say seconds, not minutes! Sorry

Overall the the perk jsut isn't fleshed out enough in my opinion, and doesn't really fit the combat expert kind of style of the other classes. I'd personally have to say I am not a big fan of the idea. As always though keep thinking, I'm always happy to be proved wrong.

Well, first of all I am proceeding on it with friends. Around 80% is done for Alpha phase. Still need to find out how to make this "chemical cloud" effect which damages.
And well, I didn't rly explain this whole thing, but actually this is rly making sense. His tasks in team would be:
1. Pretty much like of a firebug, killing everything in the area of sight by single shots spreading death.
2. Also supporting medic with adrenaline rush, rushing around to help with zeds and ofc saving day by blasting huge areas of enemies. Pretty much like demoman and medic in 1 on this one.
3. Support Spec. + Commando - piercing, but rapid. Still a firebug on this one then, since firebug can do that as well.
4. Seeing how ZEDs suffer in slow deaths. Maybe not as effective when soloing but when in team - he'd rly be helpfull
5. KILLING PATRIARCH! His Nuke is rly made just to make Patty dead. One shot already means death for Patty unless he kills the team before the nuke's effects don't do the job in time. Since first contamination on Patty it's just matter of time who wins.

Basically: He is made mostly for bigger ones, but the regular, smaller ZEDs aren't too much problem to not be able to handle them.