I've been bouncing between the various sections of these forums and the Steam forums for quite a while now. I've been seeing all the different side of each argument for just about everything under the sun.
Most of the threads and posts I see from people, including from myself sometimes, usually start with someone giving their opinion on an element in RO2 and how it's either good, bad or needs some kind of changing, etc...... and each person, regardless of what the subject is or how well they word their arguments, almost always start off with:
"I'm an RO1 Vet"
Good for you.... I'm an RO:Mod Vet, does that make my view and my argument more valid?
The answer is no.
Whether someone has been playing RO since Ostfront, or since Combined Arms or just got into RO via RO2..... everybody's opinion and view of the game are equally the same as the next person's. Stating how long you've played Red Orchestra makes no difference, so why bother?
I make arguments on one topic which may or may not agree with another's view, and then someone tries to disqualify my arguments or views by saying "I'm an RO:Ost Vet, you obviously never played RO1" or "Go back to playing CoD"
Really?? What is that accomplishing?
Should I have to start all my posts by stating "I'm an RO:CA Vet?" in order to try and avoid this?
One would think you shouldn't have to, but it seems today that we have a community split between Mod Vets, RO1 Vets and RO2 Recruits..... and all of us have very differing views and experiences towards Red Orchestra and what direction the game should take.
Red Orchestra Combined Arms, Red Orchestra Ostfront and Red Orchestra Heroes of Stalingrad all seem to jump into different directions. In my view, RO:CA and RO2 head in one direction and RO1 went into a different direction..... that's not a good or bad thing, it's just the way it is..... but it does split the community up and the views on which way RO should go varries greatly.
Some prefer Ostfront as their favorite RO, others prefer RO2 because either
A) it's their first experience with RO or
B) they've played the mod and feel it is closer to the mod than it is to RO1.
I am option B.
Now again, just because I've played the Mod first, that doesn't make me anymore right or wrong compared to someone who started out in RO1 or RO2...... although to be honest, I do believe it does give me a larger perspective of what RO was back then and what it is today.
Back in the mod days, I remember piles of people having similar arguments and debates as today on what should be added, what's realistic, what's not, what should be tweaked, etc. etc.
And in RO1 the same applied..... but now with RO2, it seems to be a little more intensified with people now trying to back up their arguments on what used to be, what was in the version they played before and how things in RO2 don't match up.
There has always been a divide between the community when it came to how much realism should be in the game and what exactly is realism when it comes to a video game..... now it seems to have intensified to levels I don't remember seeing before, further deviding the community and giving others, especially new players, a bit of a foul taste..... or should it be fowl?
Anyways..... I'm not trying to preach and tell others how they should or shouldn't conduct themselves in the forums, that's not what this thread it about.
I'm trying to bring forward some of the issues I see in the forum community, slap a spot light on them to expose all the pimples and warts that exist and find ways or suggestions to try and get people who are interested into being more constructive with one another, even when it's an idea you really don't like.
Saying you like something or hate something doesn't tell anybody anything and while you may like/hate something, someone else will have the opposite view as you.... it happens. Standing your ground, holding blindly to your position and refusing to see anything any other way is not going to solve anything and it won't help your argument either.
Some of the bigger issues being discussed recently are the following:
• Weapon Sway
• Recoil
• Stats/Leveling/Unlocks
• Zoom/Focus
• Respawn
• Spawn on Squad Leaders
• Ratio of Rifles to SMG's/Semi-Autos
• Team Communication/Team Work
• MKB42
• Drum Mags & Clip Unlocks
• Realism in General
• Attaching/Detatching Bayonets
• Bot Farming
• Movement Speed
• Aiming Physics/Reflex/Iron Sights
Among many other things.......
Many people have strong views one way or another about many of the above..... myself included, I can admit that.
But no matter how strong out views are on a subject or how much we may like or hate something, there is always room for compromise. You can give way a little bit on your position and offer some sort of solution to the subject that meets the other guy half way.... and hopefully they will do the same.
Each of us almost always holds firm on a very strong/absolute position and either like exactly how something currently is, or exactly how we think it should be. No matter if the idea in question is left as it is or changed the way you like it to be, not everybody is going to be pleased because both ways are the ends of two extremes and someone's going to either love it or hate it.
Solution?
I would suggest that perhaps to make it easy for everybody, including Tripwire, to determine what should be focused on the most, say one or two features.... perhaps even make a poll once every month on what everybody would like to address this time around to perhaps add into the next patch (Weapon Sway, Bandaging, etc.)..... once a majority of people determine what is the most important thing to address, then create a thread stating clearly and unbiasly the two ends of the argument:
• Weapon Sway is Fine Now
• Weapon Sway needs to be Increased
Rather than people just arguing why their position is right and the other is wrong (since that doesn't accomplish anything)..... why don't we all just accept that there is some level of tweak that can be done that everybody could accept?
Nobody is going to get exactly what they want all the time and not everybody is going to be pleased with either of the above extremes, so why not focus on how to reach a middle ground between the two?
Some people want sway similar to RO1's style, others want it exactly as it currently is.... would it kill anybody if it was somewhere in between and then go from there is it isn't quite perfect?
I wouldn't want RO1 style weapon sway back, but I could accept something between RO1 and RO2 if it's done right.
Maybe keep RO2 style sway for Prone/Crouch/Propped positions and have something like RO1 sway for standing?
There's all sorts of options and compromises that can be made and worked on constructively, rather than "No, it's my way and no other way"..... you're only going to please yourself and the group of people who agree with you, while if both sides of the argument work together to make something that meets in the middle, you stand a better chance of getting more of what you want and you end up satisfying a larger group of the community.
I'm just tossing out ideas here and I'm not trying to tell anybody how they should or shouldn't conduct themselves..... this is more just for a reflection for those interested in perhaps trying to make their ideas a bit more accepted by the rest of the community and to maybe give their ideas/suggestions/issues a better chance at being accepted or at least acknowledged by the rest of the community.
It might even give Tripwire a good idea of how important an idea is to the community as well as help them find a way to include this idea into the game that would be acceptable to the majority of the community. If it was me and I kept seeing arguments from both sides wanting something changed and the other wanting it to remain the same..... I simply wouldn't touch it until there was some level of agreement from either both sides or a greater majority of the community.
....... I should know, I'm an RO:Mod Vet just kidding.
Most of the threads and posts I see from people, including from myself sometimes, usually start with someone giving their opinion on an element in RO2 and how it's either good, bad or needs some kind of changing, etc...... and each person, regardless of what the subject is or how well they word their arguments, almost always start off with:
"I'm an RO1 Vet"
Good for you.... I'm an RO:Mod Vet, does that make my view and my argument more valid?
The answer is no.
Whether someone has been playing RO since Ostfront, or since Combined Arms or just got into RO via RO2..... everybody's opinion and view of the game are equally the same as the next person's. Stating how long you've played Red Orchestra makes no difference, so why bother?
I make arguments on one topic which may or may not agree with another's view, and then someone tries to disqualify my arguments or views by saying "I'm an RO:Ost Vet, you obviously never played RO1" or "Go back to playing CoD"
Really?? What is that accomplishing?
Should I have to start all my posts by stating "I'm an RO:CA Vet?" in order to try and avoid this?
One would think you shouldn't have to, but it seems today that we have a community split between Mod Vets, RO1 Vets and RO2 Recruits..... and all of us have very differing views and experiences towards Red Orchestra and what direction the game should take.
Red Orchestra Combined Arms, Red Orchestra Ostfront and Red Orchestra Heroes of Stalingrad all seem to jump into different directions. In my view, RO:CA and RO2 head in one direction and RO1 went into a different direction..... that's not a good or bad thing, it's just the way it is..... but it does split the community up and the views on which way RO should go varries greatly.
Some prefer Ostfront as their favorite RO, others prefer RO2 because either
A) it's their first experience with RO or
B) they've played the mod and feel it is closer to the mod than it is to RO1.
I am option B.
Now again, just because I've played the Mod first, that doesn't make me anymore right or wrong compared to someone who started out in RO1 or RO2...... although to be honest, I do believe it does give me a larger perspective of what RO was back then and what it is today.
Back in the mod days, I remember piles of people having similar arguments and debates as today on what should be added, what's realistic, what's not, what should be tweaked, etc. etc.
And in RO1 the same applied..... but now with RO2, it seems to be a little more intensified with people now trying to back up their arguments on what used to be, what was in the version they played before and how things in RO2 don't match up.
There has always been a divide between the community when it came to how much realism should be in the game and what exactly is realism when it comes to a video game..... now it seems to have intensified to levels I don't remember seeing before, further deviding the community and giving others, especially new players, a bit of a foul taste..... or should it be fowl?
Anyways..... I'm not trying to preach and tell others how they should or shouldn't conduct themselves in the forums, that's not what this thread it about.
I'm trying to bring forward some of the issues I see in the forum community, slap a spot light on them to expose all the pimples and warts that exist and find ways or suggestions to try and get people who are interested into being more constructive with one another, even when it's an idea you really don't like.
Saying you like something or hate something doesn't tell anybody anything and while you may like/hate something, someone else will have the opposite view as you.... it happens. Standing your ground, holding blindly to your position and refusing to see anything any other way is not going to solve anything and it won't help your argument either.
Some of the bigger issues being discussed recently are the following:
• Weapon Sway
• Recoil
• Stats/Leveling/Unlocks
• Zoom/Focus
• Respawn
• Spawn on Squad Leaders
• Ratio of Rifles to SMG's/Semi-Autos
• Team Communication/Team Work
• MKB42
• Drum Mags & Clip Unlocks
• Realism in General
• Attaching/Detatching Bayonets
• Bot Farming
• Movement Speed
• Aiming Physics/Reflex/Iron Sights
Among many other things.......
Many people have strong views one way or another about many of the above..... myself included, I can admit that.
But no matter how strong out views are on a subject or how much we may like or hate something, there is always room for compromise. You can give way a little bit on your position and offer some sort of solution to the subject that meets the other guy half way.... and hopefully they will do the same.
Each of us almost always holds firm on a very strong/absolute position and either like exactly how something currently is, or exactly how we think it should be. No matter if the idea in question is left as it is or changed the way you like it to be, not everybody is going to be pleased because both ways are the ends of two extremes and someone's going to either love it or hate it.
Solution?
I would suggest that perhaps to make it easy for everybody, including Tripwire, to determine what should be focused on the most, say one or two features.... perhaps even make a poll once every month on what everybody would like to address this time around to perhaps add into the next patch (Weapon Sway, Bandaging, etc.)..... once a majority of people determine what is the most important thing to address, then create a thread stating clearly and unbiasly the two ends of the argument:
• Weapon Sway is Fine Now
• Weapon Sway needs to be Increased
Rather than people just arguing why their position is right and the other is wrong (since that doesn't accomplish anything)..... why don't we all just accept that there is some level of tweak that can be done that everybody could accept?
Nobody is going to get exactly what they want all the time and not everybody is going to be pleased with either of the above extremes, so why not focus on how to reach a middle ground between the two?
Some people want sway similar to RO1's style, others want it exactly as it currently is.... would it kill anybody if it was somewhere in between and then go from there is it isn't quite perfect?
I wouldn't want RO1 style weapon sway back, but I could accept something between RO1 and RO2 if it's done right.
Maybe keep RO2 style sway for Prone/Crouch/Propped positions and have something like RO1 sway for standing?
There's all sorts of options and compromises that can be made and worked on constructively, rather than "No, it's my way and no other way"..... you're only going to please yourself and the group of people who agree with you, while if both sides of the argument work together to make something that meets in the middle, you stand a better chance of getting more of what you want and you end up satisfying a larger group of the community.
I'm just tossing out ideas here and I'm not trying to tell anybody how they should or shouldn't conduct themselves..... this is more just for a reflection for those interested in perhaps trying to make their ideas a bit more accepted by the rest of the community and to maybe give their ideas/suggestions/issues a better chance at being accepted or at least acknowledged by the rest of the community.
It might even give Tripwire a good idea of how important an idea is to the community as well as help them find a way to include this idea into the game that would be acceptable to the majority of the community. If it was me and I kept seeing arguments from both sides wanting something changed and the other wanting it to remain the same..... I simply wouldn't touch it until there was some level of agreement from either both sides or a greater majority of the community.
....... I should know, I'm an RO:Mod Vet
just kidding.
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