Leading for ping is ridiculous.

[Synesthesia]

I know someone defended the netcode some time ago in some dev thread, and i believed them. I'm finally coming back to the game, after the automatic weapon blobs were taken away (Thanks for that, by the way. The issue took quite a chunk of the playerbase before coming, though.)

The thing is: I love the ballistics of the game, or at least, where it "aims" to be -seewhatididthere- but the netcode absolutely kills it.

It feels like having a mosin nagant with a 40 meter barrel, shooting at a wall right in front of my character and seeing it impact after half a second (And sometimes not at all with the ppsh, but i guess thats a glitch of sorts)

You need to enable some sort of client hit detection here, else aiming proficiency goes out the window, and becomes tabbing to see current ping, shooting at a wall to see the delay -and giving away your position- and only then, taking aim and fire. Of course, most of the times it will miss, because something weird also happens with the hit detection on the target. It is clearly broken. Will something be done about this? I'll make a video in the next few days to illustrate.

I know some guys here made some analysis on the round velocity of these weapons, is this going to be applied anytime soon?

 

[Nazarov]

I doubt it.
RO had the same issue of firing and bullet hitting a wall 1 meter in front with half a second delay.
In RO2, I would be ok with it if it remained more or less consistent, but it's not.

 

[NatetheGR8]

I know someone defended the netcode some time ago in some dev thread, and i believed them. I'm finally coming back to the game, after the automatic weapon blobs were taken away (Thanks for that, by the way. The issue took quite a chunk of the playerbase before coming, though.)

The thing is: I love the ballistics of the game, or at least, where it "aims" to be -seewhatididthere- but the netcode absolutely kills it.

It feels like having a mosin nagant with a 40 meter barrel, shooting at a wall right in front of my character and seeing it impact after half a second (And sometimes not at all with the ppsh, but i guess thats a glitch of sorts)

You need to enable some sort of client hit detection here, else aiming proficiency goes out the window, and becomes tabbing to see current ping, shooting at a wall to see the delay -and giving away your position- and only then, taking aim and fire. Of course, most of the times it will miss, because something weird also happens with the hit detection on the target. It is clearly broken. Will something be done about this? I'll make a video in the next few days to illustrate.

I know some guys here made some analysis on the round velocity of these weapons, is this going to be applied anytime soon?

in the new message from what the are doing the nov 29th thread they said things about ping and server load when the server gets to full capacity. They are probably going to have a beta test on there servers. I just hope they fix it cause its really annoying.

 

[Synesthesia]

Yeah, i hope they do so. Having slower bullets is not very in the realistic spirit of the game.

 

[Mekhazzio]

The lack of latency compensation is the game's biggest design flaw. Quick, someone's coming down a hallway at you, where do you fire to hit them? It's a trick question; you cannot know where to fire. By the time your shot gets to the server, the target could have sidestepped to either direction enough to make a killshot just wound or even miss entirely. With how precise the weapons and hitboxes are, having to lead a target's motion even at pointblank ranges is guesswork to the point of complete randomness.

This is why people complain about a nonexistent "close-range hit detection bug", because they (rightly) think that all they should have to do to hit someone right in their face is shoot directly at them, but with RO2's networking model, that's a sure-fire way to miss someone.

Improving server response time is all well and good, but shaving 10 ms or so off of the top of 100-120ish average internet traffic time is not going to make any real difference in terms of how distorted the gameplay gets. The networking model itself needs to be able to adjust for it. Client-side hit detection would do wonders for the game.

 

[Synesthesia]

i think the devs are kinda in love with the current system, maybe we could beta test some client side hit detection? I'm sure the response would be great.

If this not happens, is there any way this could be adressed in the sdk? Or is it too deep inside the dev tools?

 

[Nazarov]

i think the devs are kinda in love with the current system, maybe we could beta test some client side hit detection? I'm sure the response would be great.

This is why I am doubtful.
I don't think anyone knows at this point how deep this issue is. May be by end of this week when SDK comes out.

 

[Niklas]

I remember much better pings during beta with punkbuster off.

 

[derbefrier]

its killing the game for me. i am liking the game play changes though, the reduction of the semi autos works really well but if they cant fix this one issue it doesnt really matter as i wont be playing anymore.

 

[Mangley]

The facts:

Online internet multiplayer always has and always will have some kind of delay and that delay will always very depending on the connection of the players to the server.

RO2 has calculated bullet flight time. You have to aim ahead of the players if they are moving.

RO2 does a VERY good job of maintaining this mechanic under the stresses of online play. I don't have a problem with it and I can consistently hit my mark on moving targets from any ping from 0 - 180.

Ease your mind:

Learn to play.

OR

Pretend that the wind direction is causing your bullets to veer off slightly.

OR

Go play some shooter that uses hitscan weapons and where you're actually aiming at where the player was ~ a second ago before they pressed C to insta kill you with a knife.

 

[>F|R< CoMuNisTa]

they've kept the same "not gonna happen" from RO1 threads

no ping compensation, no client hit detection


it's really a pitty... a small community like this would benefit so much from this ... public servers, clan ladders, etc

here in Brazil we've just lost our only decent public server due to the company that hosted it being sold and other companies having no interest on hosting such a small niche game server. That is about 30-50 active players without a national server to play, plus about 100 casual players that should come back as new patches come, plus the new players on the horizon

may not look like much, but this same scenario can be seem in several non NA/euro countries.

just image how many players would be active now if ping compensation/client side hit detection was a SERVER OPTION. Just a server admin option box. ON/OFF. not a forced feature.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Hit detection and ballistics need to be calculated client-side, like Battlefield. Currently they are done server-side.

Why does client-side work better?

Well, it produces the most realistic weapon experience when it comes to ballistics. In real life there is not a 0.5-1.0 second delay between when you pull the trigger and the bullet leaves the barrel (let alone that it also has to travel downrange.)

Sure, using client-side ballistics will produce "kills" when one person thinks they are around a corner and whatnot. But this is actually good too; in RO2 this can easily be explained as getting hit but not knowing that you are for a few seconds (which can happen in real life.)

Ultimately it can be concluded that both the advantages and disadvantages to client-side ballistics provide greater realism and, if it's possible for Tripwire to implement it, they should seriously consider it.

 

[Icey_Pain]

Hit detection and ballistics need to be calculated client-side, like Battlefield. Currently they are done server-side.

Why does client-side work better?

Well, it produces the most realistic weapon experience when it comes to ballistics. In real life there is not a 0.5-1.0 second delay between when you pull the trigger and the bullet leaves the barrel (let alone that it also has to travel downrange.)

Sure, using client-side ballistics will produce "kills" when one person thinks they are around a corner and whatnot. But this is actually good too; in RO2 this can easily be explained as getting hit but not knowing that you are for a few seconds (which can happen in real life.)

Ultimately it can be concluded that both the advantages and disadvantages to client-side ballistics provide greater realism and, if it's possible for Tripwire to implement it, they should seriously consider it.

Have you ever played Battlefield 3?

Oh how horrible they implemented client side hit detection. Call of Duty has the exact same issue. The point is that client side detection, would perhaps give a realistic feel to it when you don't see the enemy that kills you.

But when you see that it's a particular guy that you know is coming around the corner, and you die before he even appears on your screen just because he sees you sooner on his screen. Then the result of that is that the whole close quarter combat situations feel like an extreme gamble. The one who just happens to come around the corner first will win atleast 2/3 of the times.

I am really not a fan of a good client side detection, in my opinion a ping as seen in Quake or Valve games really does a much better job. As the leading you have to do with 30 ping is very minimal and hardly noticable.

 

[radix]

client side detection: favorize the shooter
server side detection: favorize the target

I'm ok with the UE server side detection because it let the player skill to compensate for the lag. If you get skilled and you know your ping (not hard to check the killboard) you can learn to adjust your leading time accordingly, and I'm playing almost excusivelly as rifleman)

The client side detection is not too much influenced by the player skill. You get the WTF moments when killed around corner or before you see the shooter.

You can play fine in RO with pings up to 150.

The problems in RO is with admins setting player number on the servers greater that what that hardware/map combination can handle.

 

[r5cya]

i don't really know why anyone's complaining about hit detection anymore. seems to me it was fixed already. i have no problems leading people for the kill. up close is no different. if i get the shot off first, you're dead. when the game came out it was a problem for me. not now.
what effect does a players ping have to do with this? i usually have about a 125 to 200 ping usually on the low end of that scale.

i'd love the chance to do a beta test on the alternatives to what they're using now though. anything that can make the game better, i'm all for!

 

[Barleyman]

Where does that 0.5second delay business come from? If the ping is 100ms-ish, then the delay should be 0.1s. Considering the Mosin Nagant has muzzle velocity of about 800m/s, shooting at a target 100 meters away has travel time of 125ms. So at least theoretically you should double the lead to hit your target.

Things of course get funky in CQB where you should lead your target by equivalent amount to shooting at someone 100 meters away IRL.

Assuming 30meter sprint in a combat gear takes about 7.5 seconds, this works out to about 4 m/s sprint speed. Therefore IRL you should lead your target 100 meters away running sideways by about 0.4 meters and in the game by about 0.9 meters.. More obnoxious is that you have to lead the running man by half a meter point blank.

 

[Machete234]

I doubt it.
RO had the same issue of firing and bullet hitting a wall 1 meter in front with half a second delay.

And I doubt what you say because my bullet hits almost instantly when there is a noticable delay Im on the wrong server.
In europe finding a server is still no problem.

But I agree that there is a problem in general because even I with a 20-50 ping have the aim ahead about one body.
And it really feels like the bullets travel 100m/s not 3-5 times that what it should be.

You can play fine in RO with pings up to 150.

Thats true and thats one + for the netcode.
When your ping is bad you just have to lead ahead more and thats it, not as much confusion adn warping as in other games.

 

[Richey79]

And I doubt what you say because my bullet hits almost instantly when there is a noticable delay Im on the wrong server.
In europe finding a server is still no problem.

Exactly.

I can't stand client-side hit detection the way Dice implement it. At the moment, you have a few moments at close range where you were sure you put a couple of bullets in someone's face and they didn't register. If they ever move to client side, get ready to be killed by guys you can't see repeatedly, and for those with low ping to be at a disadvantage.

 

[vbloke]

cant think of a game where i didnt have to lead to some extent.
In UO had to lead a bit to compensate for the lag on busy servers. and UO doesnt have bullet drop etc.

Must admit in RO2 i have to lead a lot more than i did in RO - i dont shoot guns in RL but i am guessing i am leading way more than is realistic,

However once i get used to the lead its fine - takes a few goes but once you work out the delay - its game on.

 

[Poerisija]

they've kept the same "not gonna happen" from RO1 threads

no ping compensation, no client hit detection


it's really a pitty... a small community like this would benefit so much from this ... public servers, clan ladders, etc

here in Brazil we've just lost our only decent public server due to the company that hosted it being sold and other companies having no interest on hosting such a small niche game server. That is about 30-50 active players without a national server to play, plus about 100 casual players that should come back as new patches come, plus the new players on the horizon

may not look like much, but this same scenario can be seem in several non NA/euro countries.

just image how many players would be active now if ping compensation/client side hit detection was a SERVER OPTION. Just a server admin option box. ON/OFF. not a forced feature.

Just played a bit of BF3. Dying after you are behind a corner, dying BEFORE you go around a corner, dying after you're in the cover, sometimes dying instantly because bullets register with lag and then all hit you at once. Sometimes hitting your enemy, seeing hit indicators and blood and then dying, only to see your enemy is at 100% hp.

PING COMPENSATION. NOT EVEN ONCE.