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Killing Floor 2: My concerns
- Thread starter Deutschland
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It's amusing that TW has so many fans who will defend them no matter what, that they don't even have to lock threads, erase them, or pay "volunteers" for positive PR pre-release like other studios do and is pretty much industry standard.
You can't buy that **** with money.
TL;DR yes, game is "popularized"/"consolized"/"less-hardcore-ized". I doubt anything is going to change at this point, so deal with it or leave the franchise to the "new audience" it may attract?
If you would follow around...I was among those who were most against sprint and crosshairs....however that was before I actually tried KF2 (and saw how they were implemented hands-on). They did GOOD job so far
anyone who has played the game knows that crosshairs are VERY big and thus do not offer any advantage, and anyone playing will have the same performance regardless whether they use crosshair or not...
we are not getting small little cross showing us exactly where bullets will go, but a big azz crosshair that helps in no way...since its bigger than any normal persons perception of where middle of screen is
the only reason it is there, is for convenience...it gives the feeling of making game easier (and thats why many of you are raging about it)...but it does not
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still makes more sense then stupid counter-strike recoil patterns (basically the only thing that makes that game go from perfect to trash...for me at least)
oh and btw ADS improve accuracy and help you maintain accuracy while you are moving, not to mention give you the information of where exactly you are pointing.
and I am no expert, but common sense dictates that 1st bullet will always go wherever you pointed the gun
and honestly...there is no need to remove that...it was fine in KF1...and it didnt make ADS obsolete
and as stated crosshair does nothing...since it is too big....thats coming from actually using it for 30 hours....
dont bash what you (I am assuming) didnt even use extensively or at all
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Sprinting can add depth to the game, if added right, and the Zeds also had a similar sprinting mechanism, it could add a whole heap of new mechanics to the game!
More getting rid of a niggle than a "Dumbing down" don't you think?
I find this more of an addition to the game than a determent, it means you can mix a few off perk weapons for variety or backup! It might also mean that weapons like the M4/GL or dragons breath Trench gun would be useful to both the classes it falls into!
Not as bad as you think it is, the way hip firing works in KF they always hit the same spot, so by a few days you would have already remembered the hit zone or placed a mark from a whiteboard marker.
I do remember Alan going on about aim assist a while back, stating that many people didn't know when it was on or not, I do think however, that it is currently only active with controllers, but if you are concerned, it's best to as Alan what is and isn't assisted with first.
As someone who hates the "knee high objects holding you in place" mechanics, this is actually a godsend for me, now the player character respond to grapples and holds like a normal person would!
I'll actually agree with you there, FP and Scrakes seem to easy to avoid right now, and feel more of an annoyance than a threat. Hopefully the up it's speed and responsiveness a bit in the next build.
It's a deliberate mechanic they've introduced in order to force you to relocate rather than just holing up in the easiest to defend location. And to the sounds, it's working
He isn't, but I can see how you got confused as Alan did get a little too excited during the Totalbuiscit reveal, and did describe him as being "Bascially a 100 year old Nazi"
They're not, they're just saying "Don't be a dick"
I don't think it's them promoting de-sexualisation or anything. It's mostly just saying that a bikini girl is stupid, cause lets face it. Fighting flesh eating super-men in basically your birthday suit is a crusin' for a brusin'!
Also, corsets on woman is run-of-the-mill with woman in steampunk, just like pauldrons and cravats are for men
I'm 100% with you on this one.
They key word here is "yet" let's wait for these classes and counters to actually arrive before we really start criticizing these features
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I completely disagree with almost everything you've said.
Keep in mind this is THE BETA and things are still being worked on. Its like watching someone build a car you're going to buy and complaining that you don't like the color before the paint has been put on.
What you're probably thinking is just joking around for laughs. That's all good and well. But if someone was ACTUALLY being abusive to someone else and making them want to quit playing, THATS a problem. And that's what they're referring to.
Evolve had DLC that added characters to the game that all have different play styles and weapons. They also had an additional monaster.
If you think that's ANYTHING like having some more clothes that you can put on people or another character who's only difference is his quotes and voice. Then League of Legends might as well be a pay to win game due to the number of skins in the shop.
And all areas dont even have doors.
You can fight in outside areas consistently.
I've also actually held up in one room for ~4 waves with some doors welded.
This was incredibly abusible in KF1, I dont really get why you're complaining about it. Just like with mountain pass, there were places where people would just hold up in one spot ALL GAME LONG and it got INCREDIBLY tedious. They're trying to make gameplay feel more alive and less like a camp fest.
Keep in mind this is THE BETA and things are still being worked on. Its like watching someone build a car you're going to buy and complaining that you don't like the color before the paint has been put on.
This is literally not dumbing something down. You could already pull your knife out to run faster. but the thing is you cant attack while keeping up your sprint. I used to slip between clots with my knife running at full speed by stabbing one in the head so it couldn't grab me. If anything this makes it every so slightly harder.
How is this dumbing it down? There never was a penalty for off perk weapons. They removed the discount for weapons of your perk. They said they wanted players to be able to buy a gun from another perk if they had the space or just wanted to. I already bought shotguns on the medic in KF1. This doesnt make the game ANY easier at all. It makes main perk guns not drop in price just because you're higher level.
This is an option, not a requirement. It starts defaulted off. They're probably going to add server options to force this off. But I agree. Crosshairs dont belong in KF. That being said. Some people will buy the game, and just arent good enough to play without it. I have no problem with people using it if they need it. I've played KF enough to get head shots pretty regularly without even using ADS. In KF1 I almost stopped needing it within medium range.
Again, game still in development. I've tested it and it's pretty abusable. Could use some work.
This is a double edges sword. It forces you to attack clots when they grab you. Yeah you get an aligned headshot, but you also have to shoot them instead of the immediate threat. This has gotten me killed at least 4 times. You know how terrifying it is when there's a fleshpound charging you and you get spun around to face a clot? Plus I actually dont think it's always a headshot. Slashers on higher difficulties dont sit still enough for you to auto headshot them.
Scrakes are more of a threat than they used to be. They used to stand still and try to just chain saw you, now they attack while still moving. I actually just had my entire squad wipe because a scrake spun around in the middle of all of us, killing 3 of us nearly instantly. And why are you expecting everything to be so balanced before the game has even hit early access? Why are you expecting the game to be balanced before it releases? TWI is taking the input from the community to balance the game. There's literally not even been enough time to fix all of the bugs. Why would the game be balanced.
No it isn't. No it hasn't. And this isnt even a 100% bad thing. Have you ever played Mountain Pass in KF1? You literally just sit in the corner with everyone and fall asleep while the sharpshooters kill everything out of range to you. You CAN still hold. You just have to play it alot smarter than you used to. Now, on Hell on Earth, things sprint at you so fast, it can be impossible to hold. But I've held my own in one spot plenty of times before.
Who cares if he's a Nazi. Literally who cares. The only thing Nazi about him is that he "used" to be a Nazi. You know who isnt a Nazi? The Patriarch. You know who else isnt a Nazi? Anyone else in the game.
Why is this a bad thing. Do you know how much I hate the communities in other games? I cant stand 90% of the players in League, Dota2, CS:GO or really any other competitive game. Putting their foot down is not a bad thing at all. And there's a difference between dicking around and being abusive.
What you're probably thinking is just joking around for laughs. That's all good and well. But if someone was ACTUALLY being abusive to someone else and making them want to quit playing, THATS a problem. And that's what they're referring to.
Stalkers also dont have genitalia. They're litearlly look like they have a exoskeleton. And aside from the stalkers being "unclothed" zeds with no genitalia, just like the rest of the zeds in the game. I dont know what sexualization you're talking about. I played Ana almost all beta, and she's pretty solid.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think having additional characters, that add absolutely zero bonus gameplay and content is the same as other day 1 DLC.
Evolve had DLC that added characters to the game that all have different play styles and weapons. They also had an additional monaster.
If you think that's ANYTHING like having some more clothes that you can put on people or another character who's only difference is his quotes and voice. Then League of Legends might as well be a pay to win game due to the number of skins in the shop.
This is added difficulty. This isnt stupid or dumbing down.
And all areas dont even have doors.
You can fight in outside areas consistently.
I've also actually held up in one room for ~4 waves with some doors welded.
This was incredibly abusible in KF1, I dont really get why you're complaining about it. Just like with mountain pass, there were places where people would just hold up in one spot ALL GAME LONG and it got INCREDIBLY tedious. They're trying to make gameplay feel more alive and less like a camp fest.
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Don't mean to sound like a jerk, but this isn't your game. Your options are:
A) Buy the game. Play it. Enjoy it.
B) Buy the game. Play it. Not enjoy it. Stop playing.
C) Don't buy the game.
That's pretty much it, feedback is great, expressing your opinions is great, but what exactly do you expect Tripwire to do?
I guess that last thing I would like to say is that this is a ... game. It's not the cure for cancer. It's not unlimited energy. It's a $30 game, and if you're not having fun, or think you will have fun, then why are you playing it?
A) Buy the game. Play it. Enjoy it.
B) Buy the game. Play it. Not enjoy it. Stop playing.
C) Don't buy the game.
That's pretty much it, feedback is great, expressing your opinions is great, but what exactly do you expect Tripwire to do?
I guess that last thing I would like to say is that this is a ... game. It's not the cure for cancer. It's not unlimited energy. It's a $30 game, and if you're not having fun, or think you will have fun, then why are you playing it?
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You want realism, go play Arma. This ain't no Arma, so get lost, you damn bloody Millwall Bushwackers!
Still, joking aside, I really, really want Tripwire to use the ro2 hipfire mechanic for kf2: is it pinpoint-accurate? Yes. Is it hard to master? Double yes.
It takes a lot of skill to hip-fire properly in RO2, but when you finally master it, an insta corner hipfire mosin to the head is really, really satisfying in it own way.
Still, joking aside, I really, really want Tripwire to use the ro2 hipfire mechanic for kf2: is it pinpoint-accurate? Yes. Is it hard to master? Double yes.
It takes a lot of skill to hip-fire properly in RO2, but when you finally master it, an insta corner hipfire mosin to the head is really, really satisfying in it own way.
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Good to know RO1\2 are both filthy casual games. Real people should play the game with 3km per day marching pace. In full marching gear too.
We all know flexibility is so casual and might even lead to poor decisions more so than usual. God forbid I actually do something else as medic than press mb2 and sit in a single spot in permanent coffee break like I used to in KF1.
This is something I can agree with, but functionally there are barely any weapons in KF1 and 2 which does not have 100% perfect accuracy anyway. Ironsights are only mostly cosmetic unless you are going for very tricky headshot of few pixels as the zed is in middle of a rave party. Not a major loss but rather silly.
It can get one killed quite easily. Preparing to parry\magdump FP\scrake up close only to have camera switch 180 degrees = casual?
Perma-destroyed doors are more annoying. Limited respawns would make more sense and even perhaps tie it up a bit to the difficulty, but it doesn't take much to nullify destroyed lights permanently (hint: it's under visual options). Meanwhile, the basic trick from KF1 to unweld the door and open it manually at the right time prevents destruction still works in KF2. Arguably proper use of said skill needs skill, which should be a... good thing?
Drooling idiots which are extremely easy to dispose of yet at the same time make barricading impossible because cheesy classes do not exist yet but cheesy classes will make them even dumber idiots? Or actually I go on and say retards since AI is always AI.
To be fair, he looks like Dr Mengele's resurrected alter-ego after taking lessons from the Umbrella Corporation school of mad science and zpeakz with ze funnee aksent about harvesting and SCIENCE. Hardly one can blame people for jumping the gun when it speaks for itself.
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Aside from the clot grab, none of the things mentioned sofar strike me as being console based in origin.
My first thought on the subject is the lack of weapon slots.
One slot for primaries, one for sidearms, one for melee, one for utility (syringe/welder). In KF1, there was an extra slot to allow for distinction between the main guns when selecting.
In KF2, you often end up with 3 guns sharing one slot which can make quickly choosing a specific one a nightmare, especially with the reload interrupt (You cannot start the choosing process during a reload or it'll be canceled, unlike KF1).
And I thought having a build with just two guns in slot 3 or slot 4 was bad in KF1
My second thought is the voice wheel. It requires a key to open, a mouse movement (interrupting gameplay during) and a followup action to select (click I think).
It seems built very much for a direction based input (Controller stick) rather than a location based input with access to numerical keys (mouse+keyboard) to me.
I'd very much welcome the original KF1 style voice command system as an option (or even default) for PC players. I vote v21 for this (shortcut for 'Yes' in KF1 voice) and it took me less time than it would have to open a wheel and accidentally request dosh during a firefight.
My first thought on the subject is the lack of weapon slots.
One slot for primaries, one for sidearms, one for melee, one for utility (syringe/welder). In KF1, there was an extra slot to allow for distinction between the main guns when selecting.
In KF2, you often end up with 3 guns sharing one slot which can make quickly choosing a specific one a nightmare, especially with the reload interrupt (You cannot start the choosing process during a reload or it'll be canceled, unlike KF1).
And I thought having a build with just two guns in slot 3 or slot 4 was bad in KF1
My second thought is the voice wheel. It requires a key to open, a mouse movement (interrupting gameplay during) and a followup action to select (click I think).
It seems built very much for a direction based input (Controller stick) rather than a location based input with access to numerical keys (mouse+keyboard) to me.
I'd very much welcome the original KF1 style voice command system as an option (or even default) for PC players. I vote v21 for this (shortcut for 'Yes' in KF1 voice) and it took me less time than it would have to open a wheel and accidentally request dosh during a firefight.
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Command rose is definitely the biggest downgrade from KF1 to 2. I've struggled to put it somewhere convenient, but the damn thing is just inconvenient in its very design. I hate it. Using it during the heat of battle is useless, since I make the wrong commands more often than not because the command locations are whack, I have to stop when using it, and many commands that were vital are now gone. The numpad commands, while imperfect, were about as good as we could get for a game like this. Sure you had to release the mouse for a split second, but at least you didn't have to stop moving.
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yes. besides kf1 and kf2 which i've obviously played, i've played probably near or over a thousand other fps.
i got into fps in very early 90s atmost as old as 4 years old with pc game demo disks from magazines. i can't remember the names of most the first games i played as mostly very obscure games except games like wolfenstein 3d and rise of the triads.
i'm not sure how this whole official 'action to be taken' thing (besides server admins) works in games that don't have built in reporting stuff and never noticed such 'abuse' 9however that works on the internet).
i've never noticed people saying things being some major issue and haven't ever witnessed actionbeing taken on fps besides server admins. i see people use chat, all just stuff that is said.
as far as i'm aware in most fps games it is the responsibility and decision purely of the server's admin if they want to ban someone from their server.
personally i don't have much care for this thing of 'serious abuse' on the internet, probably as i've never noticed it happening or just not understood how someone could care much about what someone is typing or saying on voice, goes over my head abit.
never experienced or witnessed it or realized i was witnessing it, but mostly just because to me it seems quite 'awwh, didums!' that someone would care so much what someone said to them and people should learn to sort stuff out between themselves which they are more likely to if neither can go tell teacher.
but yeah, there has to be rules of behaviour in a game's official servers or things might get out of hand.
i have not ever had any friends. will you be my friend?
how is 'i hope you get cancer' a good insult? that is a crap insult. funny though as it is the sort of thing you imagine some spoilt little girl shouting to her mummy as she storms upstairs and slams her bedroom door.
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Agreed, Command rose needs to be redesigned for keyboard users..plus please add in more commands.
The only other areas that feel a bit consolized are the giant weapon models, the giant wave starting overlay, and the crosshair toggle. I can live with those concessions though. Also, once we get custom maps and remakes of original maps by the community we will see more defensive hold the point gameplay ala KF1. For those still wanting to nitpick though just be greatful TWI didn't include hitmarkers! Lol...that would of really been a slap in the mouth.
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Other than the crosshair, I see no problem with any of what you just said.
Also:
>Screen name is Deutchland
>Complaining about lack of sexualization
>Complaining about lack of ability to "dick around" AKA hurl racist insults.
Sure smells Gamergate in here...god damn I just don't get reactionaries.
As for the whole Medic thing, many games use Medic as a class that's the opposite of a Sniper (very cooperative, less hand-eye or twitch than other classes). Medic classes tend to be very positioning & timing based. I honestly think the auto-dart is a good thing, though I don't know whether that's just because it's high-tech and I like whenever TWI adds some sort of sci-fi techno-element to the game (like the darts in KF1 were).
Also:
>Screen name is Deutchland
>Complaining about lack of sexualization
>Complaining about lack of ability to "dick around" AKA hurl racist insults.
Sure smells Gamergate in here...god damn I just don't get reactionaries.
As for the whole Medic thing, many games use Medic as a class that's the opposite of a Sniper (very cooperative, less hand-eye or twitch than other classes). Medic classes tend to be very positioning & timing based. I honestly think the auto-dart is a good thing, though I don't know whether that's just because it's high-tech and I like whenever TWI adds some sort of sci-fi techno-element to the game (like the darts in KF1 were).
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See this is what I'm saying. Look at TF2, it's about who you choose to heal/how much/when/so on and so forth.
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Not just TF2. Battlefield: Throw down a box. Done. Resupply the team's ammo is just as simple.
Mechanics-wise, I think the reason for this is that players typically depend more on their HPS (heal per second) to be a concrete number than their DPS. It's much more frustrating for a heal beam to snap off of your patient and get your tank killed while tanking than to miss your rifle-shot and die to another sniper, because you depend on the heal-beam more in terms of reliability. Hell, find me an FPS where your heals were unreliable and your DPS was.
Also, another reason is (subjective) math. It's less satisfying (for most players!) to heal a teammate than shoot an enemy, therefore healing needs to be less frustrating to balance the books, or you have dearth of Medics that are playing it by choice because it has the same amount of negative hedons in it's gameplay loop and less positive ones.
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A lot of talk, particularly the last line, coming from someone who hasn't beaten a single HOE stock map. Your regularly elitist and know it all attitude on this forum is based on a intimate knowledge of KF on normal and hard modes.
LOL
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