Is there going to be a good melee system?
- Thread starter Morpheus
- Start date
Man, you are entertaining 
Tbh. i couldnt care much less for the melee system, i just enjoy feeding the occasional troll.
Here some more, then i leave it to someone else:
From what in my posts did you come to the conclusion that i discuss the point of whether or not a more complex system is necessary?
You might want to get out behind your desk someday, then you might know.
As for melee systems, you named AoC yourself, even JK:JA had a more complex melee system than Ostfront has.
Tbh. i couldnt care much less for the melee system, i just enjoy feeding the occasional troll.
Here some more, then i leave it to someone else:
From what in my posts did you come to the conclusion that i discuss the point of whether or not a more complex system is necessary?
You might want to get out behind your desk someday, then you might know.
As for melee systems, you named AoC yourself, even JK:JA had a more complex melee system than Ostfront has.
Upvote
0
LOL!!! Not quite, they need to circle each other some more, then one of them has to do a bayo dive
Upvote
0
Ost's "melee system" is amost perfectly fine, imo.
th only things that bug me are: if you stab somebody in the back he should be dead.. people that are lying are very hard to kill(bash) if you are ontop(near) of them..
back stabing/bashing should be an instakill.
back stabing/bashing people in prone should be an instakill.
th only things that bug me are: if you stab somebody in the back he should be dead.. people that are lying are very hard to kill(bash) if you are ontop(near) of them..
back stabing/bashing should be an instakill.
back stabing/bashing people in prone should be an instakill.
Upvote
0
I still favor the sideswing, in real life it feels more practical than the push one. When encountering an enemy I'd rather use the gun with the sideswing than getting the gun over to the other side next to my head and then being able to strike forward. Takes too long => you're knocked out!
Upvote
0
A mount and blade style system would definitely be best IMO. The melee system there is excellent. IMO it should be possible to parry an attack from a sprinting enemy, but only if you back pedal very quickly, which would likely result in you falling down, which would likely result in a bayonet to the stomach. That would be nice. So basically a charging soldier would be very hard to stop unless you actually killed him or threw yourself against him with an equal force. A momentum system, kind of like (once again) Mount and Blade's.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Hello Folks,
I registered here to post some thoughts on the melee system for RO:HoS as I think this is very important for Tripwire to get right. Melee combat (from now just CC for close combat) was a big and bloody part of the eastern front. Note that I have been an avid fan of RO for some time, so please don’t let my lacking post count put you off
I think it’s obvious that the melee system should primarily be to things: Realistic and simple. “Realistic” because that’s what RO is all about, and because it leads to interesting combat situations. “Simple” because we want melee combat to be a fluid part of the metagame, and not its own minigame. The realistic part, to me, means that the combat should be bloody, messy and slightly confusing (not in a “run in circles” way however). But how can we make CC gameplay like this while still keeping it simple? Here`s my proposal:
Keep the single button “mouse 2 = melee attack” as it was in RO. But give the player the option to do slash attacks from the sides, as well as a frontal stab. This is controlled the way it was in the Thief series: “Mouse 2” + Tap a directional key (left or right) = Slash from that direction, while just “Mouse 2” = frontal stab. Now the interesting thing here is that a slash from the side would be a very hard attack to dodge, as it covers the entire horizontal plane in front of you. The only way do dodge it is to get out of range by moving backwards. If you get hit by this slash you won`t take much damage, but your head (player camera) will be knocked to the side thereby ruining your aim. It is also a chance, if the slash is strong enough, that your weapon will be knocked out of your arms. Should this happen you can still fight melee with your fists; It’s faster but much weaker than using a rifle or SMG for melee. A direct hit frontal stab using weapons should do more damage than a slash, and give the receiving player a big knockback; sometimes it could also knock a player off his feet (force prone). However: A stab, without bayonet, should still not be extremly damaging. If no bayonet or firepower is present, melee should take a long time and be very bloody and messy.
Also,
Melee attacks of any kind should get a massive damage or knockback bonus if the receiving player is:
1: HIT IN THE BACK. To make surprise attacks more effective. Still, only bayonets should be able do one-hit kills, even if you attack from behind (though a powerful SMG stab should make you very wounded)
2: PRONE OR CROUCHED. This is realistic and will also make sure that players try to stand on their feet when engaged in a melee. This will also make the “knocked off your feet when hit hard” feature more lethal.
3: RUNNING OR JUMPING. This is realistic and will also make sure people don’t run around in a melee. This and horizontal slash attacks is the last nail in the coffin for “run and strafe” bayoneteers.
The idea is that, when engaged in CC, opponents will try to fight for control over the melee by knocking the other player out of his aim, or ground. Then maybe try to reach for a weapon or just attempt to beat him to death. Dodging is best done by moving backwards (away) from your enemy as he slash, as opposed to just run in circles around him. It is therefore important to time your attacks correctly. Tight rooms and corridor further complicates this “dance”. Melee without firepower or bayonets can take some time before a kill, so sometimes the best thing to do is give your enemy a big knock to the head, then run away before he comes to his senses.
Of course, everything changes when a bayonet is in the picture; CC just became a lot more deadly. Using a rifle with bayonet is done in the same way as any other weapon: Slash or stab. However bayonets deal much more damage, to the point where one stab kills are possible. Players not wielding bayonets still have the chance of knocking the bayonet-rifle out of their opponents hands, so bayonets shouldn’t be all powerful (just very).
And that’s it. Sorry for all the text, just had to get it off my mind. Hope I got the idea across and diddn`t confuse anybody.
I registered here to post some thoughts on the melee system for RO:HoS as I think this is very important for Tripwire to get right. Melee combat (from now just CC for close combat) was a big and bloody part of the eastern front. Note that I have been an avid fan of RO for some time, so please don’t let my lacking post count put you off
I think it’s obvious that the melee system should primarily be to things: Realistic and simple. “Realistic” because that’s what RO is all about, and because it leads to interesting combat situations. “Simple” because we want melee combat to be a fluid part of the metagame, and not its own minigame. The realistic part, to me, means that the combat should be bloody, messy and slightly confusing (not in a “run in circles” way however). But how can we make CC gameplay like this while still keeping it simple? Here`s my proposal:
Keep the single button “mouse 2 = melee attack” as it was in RO. But give the player the option to do slash attacks from the sides, as well as a frontal stab. This is controlled the way it was in the Thief series: “Mouse 2” + Tap a directional key (left or right) = Slash from that direction, while just “Mouse 2” = frontal stab. Now the interesting thing here is that a slash from the side would be a very hard attack to dodge, as it covers the entire horizontal plane in front of you. The only way do dodge it is to get out of range by moving backwards. If you get hit by this slash you won`t take much damage, but your head (player camera) will be knocked to the side thereby ruining your aim. It is also a chance, if the slash is strong enough, that your weapon will be knocked out of your arms. Should this happen you can still fight melee with your fists; It’s faster but much weaker than using a rifle or SMG for melee. A direct hit frontal stab using weapons should do more damage than a slash, and give the receiving player a big knockback; sometimes it could also knock a player off his feet (force prone). However: A stab, without bayonet, should still not be extremly damaging. If no bayonet or firepower is present, melee should take a long time and be very bloody and messy.
Also,
Melee attacks of any kind should get a massive damage or knockback bonus if the receiving player is:
1: HIT IN THE BACK. To make surprise attacks more effective. Still, only bayonets should be able do one-hit kills, even if you attack from behind (though a powerful SMG stab should make you very wounded)
2: PRONE OR CROUCHED. This is realistic and will also make sure that players try to stand on their feet when engaged in a melee. This will also make the “knocked off your feet when hit hard” feature more lethal.
3: RUNNING OR JUMPING. This is realistic and will also make sure people don’t run around in a melee. This and horizontal slash attacks is the last nail in the coffin for “run and strafe” bayoneteers.
The idea is that, when engaged in CC, opponents will try to fight for control over the melee by knocking the other player out of his aim, or ground. Then maybe try to reach for a weapon or just attempt to beat him to death. Dodging is best done by moving backwards (away) from your enemy as he slash, as opposed to just run in circles around him. It is therefore important to time your attacks correctly. Tight rooms and corridor further complicates this “dance”. Melee without firepower or bayonets can take some time before a kill, so sometimes the best thing to do is give your enemy a big knock to the head, then run away before he comes to his senses.
Of course, everything changes when a bayonet is in the picture; CC just became a lot more deadly. Using a rifle with bayonet is done in the same way as any other weapon: Slash or stab. However bayonets deal much more damage, to the point where one stab kills are possible. Players not wielding bayonets still have the chance of knocking the bayonet-rifle out of their opponents hands, so bayonets shouldn’t be all powerful (just very).
And that’s it. Sorry for all the text, just had to get it off my mind. Hope I got the idea across and diddn`t confuse anybody.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Something I'd like to point out about the "slash" with a blunt force weapon (rifle butt, or even barrel), is moving back wouldn't be the only real defense. In real life, moving back out of range will ensure you don't get hit, but puts you out of range for a counter move. But moving forward and towards the arc of the hit allows one to either jam/choke the attack, or take less damage if you get hit before the weapon gets to full speed. You can also move laterally away from the arc of the strike. This lets you take the hit (or block it with your rifle) after most of the energy is dissipated. If you are unarmed, this is a great time to grab the opponent's weapon.
A "stabbing" attack without bayonet, when applied to head is easiest dodged by slipping laterally (so strafing is a valid tactic). Even if it hits you dead center on the chest, I don't think it would knock you down prone. It could knock you back, and maybe make you fall supine after multiple hits, but not flip you around to land prone. Problem is, I doubt supine position is in the game.
All of this is probably beyond the scope of the game, and would likely be too complicated to model in an intuitive way.
BTW: My insight on this comes from blunt and bladed weapons training in Filipino Martial Arts - not military. So I don't know how training CQB with a rifle is really done.
A "stabbing" attack without bayonet, when applied to head is easiest dodged by slipping laterally (so strafing is a valid tactic). Even if it hits you dead center on the chest, I don't think it would knock you down prone. It could knock you back, and maybe make you fall supine after multiple hits, but not flip you around to land prone. Problem is, I doubt supine position is in the game.
All of this is probably beyond the scope of the game, and would likely be too complicated to model in an intuitive way.
BTW: My insight on this comes from blunt and bladed weapons training in Filipino Martial Arts - not military. So I don't know how training CQB with a rifle is really done.
Upvote
0
If you think about it, in Real Life, when a magical fire ball is hurled at you, the best defense isn't to jump over it (as commonly done in Street Fighter). Best to side step / strafe. So again strafing is a valid tactic, against bayonet stabs and Chi based fire balls.
But seriously, side stepping is very important in close quarter fighting. The knife training I've done prioritizes lateral movements to get behind your opponent, or at least away from their blade.
Upvote
0
Soooooo... In RO, we should be able to flip over someone's bayo stab, land behind them, and Sonic Boom their asses?
Will we also have the option to do fatalities? If so, when you TK someone, does the word "FRIENDSHIP" scroll across the sceen?
Will we also have the option to do fatalities? If so, when you TK someone, does the word "FRIENDSHIP" scroll across the sceen?
Upvote
0
I wanna go for double wrist SS daggers so I can assassinate in stealth, I wanna have this game here:
Upvote
0
Only if we're able to double assassinate Hitler and Stalin while the two of them are making outI wanna go for double wrist SS daggers so I can assassinate in stealth, I wanna have this game here:
Upvote
0
but now back to the real topic, the side swing is far more practical and easier to perform. Besides the MP40 which has a folding stock you can't use for this, so this is what I decided on it to have (I've posted this video in some threads before):
http://s653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/The_Emperor/?action=view¤t=MP40MeleeAttack_2.flv
This is a fast and possible way to melee with an MP40 smg without damaging the folding stock and still packing a good punch.
http://s653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/The_Emperor/?action=view¤t=MP40MeleeAttack_2.flv
This is a fast and possible way to melee with an MP40 smg without damaging the folding stock and still packing a good punch.
Upvote
0