Hip shooting

[melipone]

Before the patch, there was enough freesway in an unshouldered bolt action rifle where it was almost impossible to make a hipshot within say 20-30 yards. Now its possible to create a reference point on your screen, and get hip kills in motion at 50-100 yards with regularity. We never saw even a fraction of this before the patch.

Can you give us some more details or a video pls? Reference point on your screen?? What do you mean?

I haven't noticed a difference personally - seems unchanged to me..all depends on the skill of the player. Do you find it easier to get hipshots personally (and your clan) or do you mean other people are hipping you more often now?

There is also a cheat (exploit) that allows perfect hip shots if you know how to do it..you can just put a marker in the centre of your screen and shots always land there. I'm not going to say how though but maybe this is becoming more widespread? Its been possible since the game went retail..

 

[blkmgc]

Maybe players are just more experienced now.

Not likely.

What was your testing methodology? How did you quantify the results? Just saying "It changed" and "we tested it" doesn't really convince me of much. If you can't quantify it, I'd say it's largely due to perception or the overall improvement of the playerbase.

Quantify? Simple. First incarnation of RO you could sharpie dot your screen for a reference point , and never have it hit in the same place while the gun was unshouldered...ever.Now, it works like a charm.Hence the magical long range sniping hipshots you see now all too often, almost (but not as bad as) COD and other "video games". There needs to be an option to make it a sim again.

 

[blkmgc]

There is also a cheat (exploit) that allows perfect hip shots if you know how to do it..you can just put a marker in the centre of your screen and shots always land there. I'm not going to say how though but maybe this is becoming more widespread? Its been possible since the game went retail..

This never worked in the first release...period.There was far to much free sway when the gun was unshouldered. We tested it then, before we invested in a server.

 

[Kipper]

What everyone is forgetting is that TWI changes things without telling us. It's all a part of the conspiracy to turn RO into Quake slowly.

 

[Solo4114]

Not likely.

I disagree. But rather than simply dismiss what you say with a two word response, I'll explain.

While RO is still getting new players, I expect that the rate of new players has tapered off considerably. What's more, the game's been out for a while now, so it's not as if we're all still learning the interface. The combination of these two factors means that you have a high population of veteran players who have gotten more and more comfortable with the interface over time. End result? More people able to hipshoot with greater accuracy than upon first release. Thus, while running around a map, your likelihood of being hipshot is greater than it was. No argument there. But not necessarily because of changes to the engine itself.

Quantify? Simple. First incarnation of RO you could sharpie dot your screen for a reference point , and never have it hit in the same place while the gun was unshouldered...ever.Now, it works like a charm.Hence the magical long range sniping hipshots you see now all too often, almost (but not as bad as) COD and other "video games". There needs to be an option to make it a sim again.

RO was never a sim, and yes, I played the mod. Your "extensive testing" sounds more like anecdotal observation. You still haven't actually quantified anything, you've just said "It used to be like this and now it's like that" without providing any numbers, evidence, or anything along those lines. Can you reproduce it? Can you post any FRAPS vids of this? Got an older installation of the game where you can check the code for this against the current code? Where's the data?

I'm not saying you're a liar, nor am I saying you're wrong necessarily, but so far, what you're saying could simply be a matter of perception.

 

[IncredibleGeek]

Where are all these "magical sniper" hip shots I keep hearing about? I know I haven't seen any...

 

[blkmgc]

RO was never a sim, and yes, I played the mod. Your "extensive testing" sounds more like anecdotal observation. You still haven't actually quantified anything, you've just said "It used to be like this and now it's like that" without providing any numbers, evidence, or anything along those lines. Can you reproduce it? Can you post any FRAPS vids of this? Got an older installation of the game where you can check the code for this against the current code? Where's the data?

I'm not saying you're a liar, nor am I saying you're wrong necessarily, but so far, what you're saying could simply be a matter of perception.

Well ,Poindexter ,I have no charts and graphs to hold a board meeting with. But this is not an "anecdotal observation". If you go back a few posts and actually comprehend whats written, it says that it was tested , and discussed with many other groups and individuals. Your free to Fraps whatever you'd like, compile data, and pie charts if you wish to refute. OTOH , I can see where some individuals would say anything to lobby to keep it this way...must be the ones with a sharpie in thier holster.

 

[Sigurd]

No oddity. WE noticed it immediately after the patch. Not just one person, a group. And with speaking with others (remember about 1/10 of the players actually read and post here) and other groups, many others have noticed it as well.

If you move the mouse right or left while hip shooting, there is almost no sway. This has not changed. (I would have noticed or Zetsumei and Tomcat would have told me).
Maybe there was a change, but it doesnt make any difference for skilled hip shooters.

@geek: If you never have made a 50 meter hip shoot, you dont fire enough bullets. www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21145

 

[blkmgc]

If you move the mouse right or left while hip shooting, there is almost no sway. This has not changed. (I would have noticed or Zetsumei and Tomcat would have told me).
Maybe there was a change, but it doesnt make any difference for skilled hip shooters.

Hmmm..member since April 2007. Patch was out in march.

 

[Sigurd]

So the first thing ppl do after buying this game is go here for registration?

The forum doesnt accept hotmail for registration. It took 8 months before I really wanted to post something / get a new e-mail address.

I've played the game since august 2006 and Roladder since jan 2007.
Using my join date against me is a cheap shoot.

Nice try, but you failed.

 

[fOgGy]

Is there a possibility of changing the current sway to something like pointing the gun right off target and positioning it close to your chest like when your running but you can still fire your weapon as well ?

 

[Tanuki]

Realy need a dev to confirm if this change has taken place or not. Majority seem to think it hasn't, but I guess they could be wrong.

Maybe PM a dev and ask them to comment here?

Untill then we don't realy know if we are discusing putting somthing back in, or adding somthing new.

 

[blkmgc]

Is there a possibility of changing the current sway to something like pointing the gun right off target and positioning it close to your chest like when your running but you can still fire your weapon as well ?

Now theres an idea. But it would have to only effect long rifles.

Just for clarity,I take the boltie almost exclusively BTW.

 

[Sigurd]

IMHO hip shooting while standing still is okey the way its now. The problem is that you have the same accuracy while moving. Moving should give a big penalty to accuracy. This might balance reducing recoil on SMG's.

(I was also thinking of bolts when I first posted here.)

 

[MkH^]

Haven't noticed any abuse regarding freeaim. If someone is actually good enough to take hip shots at those distances, he should be able to.

 

[melipone]

If you want people to take you seriously, drop the insults and ignoring people if they don't agree with you..the reason you need to come up with some evidence is because you can't just come on here and say "x,y,z is ****e, I don't need to prove it though cos I have loads of people who agree with me..CHANGE IT NOW TW". Who agrees with you? What were your tests? Will someone else come forward and say they noticed any difference?

I did bolt hip shooting for a few hours today and its the same as it ever was imo. Spent a full map doing it, then we played just hips and stabs for a couple hours..I can't see any difference personally.
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[Zetsumei]

Now theres an idea. But it would have to only effect long rifles.

Just for clarity,I take the boltie almost exclusively BTW.

visually you already pretty much have that its as if you're always walking shouldered, Try looking forward with your weapon at your hip you wont see the gun.

 

[blkmgc]

IMHO hip shooting while standing still is okey the way its now. The problem is that you have the same accuracy while moving. Moving should give a big penalty to accuracy. This might balance reducing recoil on SMG's.

(I was also thinking of bolts when I first posted here.)

Thats about the way I see it. It used to be a penalty to accuracy, now its very predictable..and very controllable.

 

[merder]

No oddity. WE noticed it immediately after the patch. Not just one person, a group. And with speaking with others (remember about 1/10 of the players actually read and post here) and other groups, many others have noticed it as well.

No offense to you, illustrious sir, but this post (and dare I say, the whole thread) sounds a great deal like what you'd see in this one: http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20813

The only difference is you're actually claiming to have tested this, not just asking everyone else to try it out for themselves. Of course, like the OP in the other thread, you have failed to actually provide evidence with more weight than "look, I tell you so, and I also tell you that a group of people agree with me, therefore it must change! Pronto!" Until you CAN provide more than unfounded claims to having evidence, I don't see any reason to believe you.

 

[blkmgc]

I've described exactly how its different, and how it can be tested (please read the entire thread), and I dont really see any similarity between tanks and rifles.So...

Guess I need to clarify again..

1- It has changed after the March patch, no doubt about that.

2- I'm not saying "fix it now11!!!11one11eleventy" , I'm asking for an alternative FOR THOSE WHO WISH IT TO BE THE WAY IT USED TO BE.Not for evrey one else. Dont like that option on our server that we pay for?, find another server .Sad that most who've read here had to have that pointed out for them again.

3- I use bolts exclusively. I have no agenda against them, nor wish any advantage for any other weapon. Just tired of the EZ mode. Its why we came here in the first place from video games like COD.

If you have a suggestion to make things the way they were, fine post it.Its more than welcome, and conducive to a productive conversation about the topic. Otherwise your just trolling ,unless you have some proof that you cannot mark your screen and hipshoot like a CS kiddie in Red Orchestra.