Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?
- Thread starter brphoenix
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Actually do kinda agree with that. Always felt sharpshooters were meant to use weapons that were meant for..you know..sharp shooting. Haven't looked at the Gunslinger thread yet but that quote popped out at me initially.
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Uh ok here we go for constructive criticism.
For the single vs dual if it goes that route, if there's going to be emphasis on that should make it different like with dual wielding you can have a higher ROF than normal but slower reload time than normal with dual wielding..single do higher damage per shot or something.
I like the killing ZEDs during ZED time as a req but I dunno about bumping slow mo more. As is if you're with a rank 5/6 Commando or Berserker and they know how to maximize the ZED extensions which personally I'm not the best but fairly good at it, that makes it either ridiculously easy to level it with the right friends or it'll have to be set so high it'll be a royal pain being in a game without either.
Again depending whether or not IF the class is decided to be added then if the devs want to make a significant difference between dual wielding or not then that also kinda affects what handguns to bring in. Obviously I'd say a revolver for single but what is it, a single action? I think those types are the ones you see in westerns where the cowboy just sprays it while tapping the hammer with his other hand..that would be cool.
Uh while I'm for taking handguns from SS as a class weapon I think somewhere down the thread someone mentioned added HS damage. No. Don't do that.
I'm not sure we should be looking to new classes when some are kinda broken like Firebug. Presonally I'd prefer new enemies, hell new boss monster would be great, over a new class. All in all cool idea just I dunno how I feel, depends on how exactly it's going to be done. Also the second icon would be ideal if they don't add any revolvers for the class..
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Yup because modern warfare 2 is the only game to utilize any weapons I said right? No. Not to be a jackass but alot of those weapons appear in other games. I only said mp5K because the normal mp5 is larger and definitly isnt classified as a machine pistol. But anyways alot of those weapons are featured in mw2(if not all, not sure)
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I really like the idea of pistol alt-fire switching between akimbo/single, but I think that shouldn't be limited to the suggested new perk only.
I question the Siren resistance, simply because: why should it be there? I realize you'll probably be the midfielder compared to other perks, but Support is often going to even closer than you (with shotguns), and they get no resist to anything.
Both the increased chance to trigger zed time and higher damage during zed time sound pretty stylish to me...and just plain cool to boot. That'd help the perk really stand out and be unique beyond "hey I use pistols and have passive bonuses to them."
As a side-note, that extra ammo capacity for pistols had better be huge since the ammo cap right now is way too skimpy on the handcannons to use them as a primary weapon.
I question the Siren resistance, simply because: why should it be there? I realize you'll probably be the midfielder compared to other perks, but Support is often going to even closer than you (with shotguns), and they get no resist to anything.
Both the increased chance to trigger zed time and higher damage during zed time sound pretty stylish to me...and just plain cool to boot. That'd help the perk really stand out and be unique beyond "hey I use pistols and have passive bonuses to them."
As a side-note, that extra ammo capacity for pistols had better be huge since the ammo cap right now is way too skimpy on the handcannons to use them as a primary weapon.
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Support have very powerful shotguns (hunting shotgun, AA12). Gunslingers would only have handguns. A revolver, even the most powerful one, can't have the same destructive power as a shotgun. Gunslingers must have something to compensate for it and increase their odds of survival, right?
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I have no idea what akimbo is. I Wikipedia's it, but it makes no reference to firearms. Could someone explain the term in relation to firearms in detail? I'd appreciate it.
Because it's the only anti-Zed buff that hasn't been given yet. Every single other Zed special ability - Clot Grab, Bloat Vomit, Husk Fire, Stalker Cloak - is covered by another perk.
Storywise you can explain it as the Gunslinger's ability to not lose their cool under pressure.
True that. The most beautiful thing in this game, IMO, is dual HCs firing off in Zed time. They use it in their trailers. Make Gunslinger the Zed-time specialist.
People have said in this thread, "Where will the Gunslinger fit in that other perks don't?" "What role will it cover besides crowd control?" (Crowd control is extensively covered by Demo, Commando, Firebug, and arguably a few other perks to some degree.)
I say it would be great for when the pressure is really on and the Zeds are close. A higher chance of triggering Zed time would be insanely useful. Hyptohetical: you have a ton of Zeds bearing down on your position. This is the Gunslinger's time to shine. Start firing off shots and hoping to get Zed Time going; once you do, that gives people precious time to make those critical shots.
That's my biggest disappointment with HCs. I don't like the Sharp's rifles/crossbow very much. HCs are fun but they can't be a primary weapon.
This perk will have style and flair. It will be positively elegant. I think it's something the game can benefit from, and the best part (for TW) is that a large part of the framework already exists - two out of the three weapons are already there. They just need a third.
As for any semi-auto pistols (like the Glock), I'd actually disagree with giving them to the Gunslinger. It is my belief that TW intends to give SMGs to the Medic - the MP7 is the first of hopefully a full set of 3 medic-oriented SMGs/Machine Pistols.
As a patchable feature, my late Christmas wish would be 2 new guns for Medic, a Husk-style flame cannon for the Firebug, and a new pistol to go with a new Gunslinger perk. A man can dream, can't he?
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...I really do not want to see the husk-cannon as a firebug weapon...
back to Gunslinger: I'm not against siren-resist for Gunslingers...it just seems kinda random, ya know? All I'm saying. Whereas the Medic resistance to bloat bile and the zerker general "toughness" is at least tenuously connected, gunslinger + siren resist doesn't really match up.
If you want to go with a "they keep their cool" theme, I suggest that a much better utility benefit would be a reduction of screen shaking/clutter (whiteout when stalkers scratch you, bile on the screen when bloats puke on you) when you take damage: AKA, you have an easier time aiming and maintaining situational awareness- "your cool"- when the heat is on.
All that aside, it isn't really a big deal: the shining feature in my mind is the increased chance to trigger zed-time, because that's a serious game-changer when the chips are down and you're staring death in the face.
back to Gunslinger: I'm not against siren-resist for Gunslingers...it just seems kinda random, ya know? All I'm saying. Whereas the Medic resistance to bloat bile and the zerker general "toughness" is at least tenuously connected, gunslinger + siren resist doesn't really match up.
If you want to go with a "they keep their cool" theme, I suggest that a much better utility benefit would be a reduction of screen shaking/clutter (whiteout when stalkers scratch you, bile on the screen when bloats puke on you) when you take damage: AKA, you have an easier time aiming and maintaining situational awareness- "your cool"- when the heat is on.
All that aside, it isn't really a big deal: the shining feature in my mind is the increased chance to trigger zed-time, because that's a serious game-changer when the chips are down and you're staring death in the face.
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Agreed. It's a watered-down Sharpshooter with some swapped out T3 weapons. Plus, it's entire role is pretty much covered by Commando already. All-in-all, the Gunslinger perk seems like a pretty transparent excuse to try and get a revolver into the game. Gets a no-vote from me.
Just ask for a freaking revolver already. That's what this really is. An idea for a Revolver perk...
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I wasn't even thinking about revolvers when I read the original thread. And it's only a while later that it came to my mind that it would NEED a revolver.
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The role is not "full"
I think it's a little silly to shoot down the idea simply because of a focus on crowd control. Who cares if there's multiple crowd controllers? Multiple perks filling the same role shouldn't be any problem, as long as they're balanced against each other. I don't see the harm in adding another option to any role that accomplishes its job with a unique feel/style.
TWI can balance it
Additionally, claiming the proposed perk couldn't possibly compete with the others within its role is totally bogus, as it still exists only in idea-land. Those TWI dudes are pretty clever; I guarantee you they can tweak numbers up or down to make the proposed perk balanced against the other crowd controllers.
Additional ZED Time
Saying it'd get annoying every X seconds is not a valid argument against: that could obviously be adjusted. Furthermore, nobody has laid down hard numbers precisely because it would be up to TWI to determine them anyway.
I think it's a little silly to shoot down the idea simply because of a focus on crowd control. Who cares if there's multiple crowd controllers? Multiple perks filling the same role shouldn't be any problem, as long as they're balanced against each other. I don't see the harm in adding another option to any role that accomplishes its job with a unique feel/style.
TWI can balance it
Additionally, claiming the proposed perk couldn't possibly compete with the others within its role is totally bogus, as it still exists only in idea-land. Those TWI dudes are pretty clever; I guarantee you they can tweak numbers up or down to make the proposed perk balanced against the other crowd controllers.
Additional ZED Time
Saying it'd get annoying every X seconds is not a valid argument against: that could obviously be adjusted. Furthermore, nobody has laid down hard numbers precisely because it would be up to TWI to determine them anyway.
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Asking for a revolver was my original thought, yes, but it developed into the Gunslinger perk idea as I kept brainstorming. Besides, where else would it fit?
I'll be damned if Sharpshooter is going to get a sixth weapon. So I decided to condense the whole idea into its own perk, making the other pistols useful in the process. The outline we have now is the result.
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and why not ? it would be like a fire roquette launcher ( i think this weapon must be create with 4 blocks also as firebug you can have the flammtower + the weapon like the husk)
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Why on earth would dual pistols be better suited for crowd control than...
-Shotguns
-Grenade Launchers
-Flamethrowers
-Full Auto bursts
-Penetrating crossbow bolts
It just wouldn't stack up with 'em. So if you really want this perk added, it needs a better role. If anything, pistols would be better suited for higher single-target damage...
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Eh, then slap a single-target DPS label on it. Still sounds like an intriguing perk to me.
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well, it all depends on the ability of your individual players. i've personally gone multiple rounds getting more kills then all of the other perks and their primary weapons by only using a 9mm as a SS because of the damage/headshot factor. you look at it, every class BUT the SS (and medic lol) are essentially crowd control classes. the zerker is even last resort "crowd control". let's just call these roles support as that's what they are. they support and protect the SS and the medics, and i guess you could throw the zerker in there as well. the problem is that right now, the SS really don't need any support. I can play SS and even using just a 9mm and handcannons i can easily defend myself, and actually support the others more than they support themselves. this on top of carrying a bow to take out priority targets and not to mention EBR spammers which is a whole nother issue. that's why i particularly like this idea because it takes the handguns away from a class that doesn't need them.
if there's already 4 classes for crowd control, adding one more can't make it any worse. why are there already 4 classes to do the same thing? simple..people have weapon preferences. some like the flamethrowers, some like the shotguns, and some like the smgs. if some like using handguns to do that task, then why not let them? at the least, it will take away the easy way for SS to level using handguns. even if they end up essentially being "mini-sharpshooters" i don't really see a problem with it. hell, i can get more headshots as a level6 commando with my SCAR/AK than most level6 SS will spamming their EBRs. as long as the handguns still have the same power as they do with SS right now, it would provide a good balance to the perk and make it worth while playing. it's not even the extra headshot damage, but damage in general of the handguns (remember as a SS since it has the abilities applied to handguns). even though the majority of the time my 9mm kills will come from headshots, all it takes is 3 9mm hits to pretty much any part of the body to kill a clot, crawler and sometimes a gorefast to kill em. combine that with the rapid fire and ammo capacity of the 9mm alone and you've already got a decent weapon for the perk, let alone the even more powerful handcannons and possibly one more 3rd tier handgun.
trust me, i've experienced first-hand the "power of the pistol". if you ever get the chance, find me in game sometime. when i transition to SS for FP/Scrake duty in wave7, you'll see that i can get just as many kills as the spamming EBRers, commandos and supports by only using my 9mm and handcannon. for that reason i question why a SS should be able to do that in the first place, and for that matter why those weapons aren't assigned to another class, in particular, their own.
- take the handgun damage increase away from the SS and give them to the gunslinger.
- gunslinger levels by handgun damage, not headshots and siren kills (will address later)
- SS would no longer be able to level by handgun headshots.
- SS could still use handguns and have their general additional headshot damage apply, but no more increased body damage
- give the gunslinger the same SS level headshot bonus to his handguns.
- allow gunslingers to choose whether or not to dual wield or holster handguns for reserve
all in all, the perk would do nothing but help improve balance issues and because of that i support the idea.
also, i prefer the first icon
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How is it a watered-down Sharpshooter? Sharp is based on headshots, Gunslinger is not.
By that logic, the Firebug's role is better covered by the Demolitions, and you may as well remove the Firebug from the game. After all, absolutely nothing in this game overlaps between the perks, right?
I couldn't give two ****s about a revolver myself personally and I don't think most of the people who are in favor of GS are out to get a revolver. They're out to rectify the Sharp having five weapons, two of which are largely useless to him since the addition of the M14 EBR. The Handcannons and 9mm have been made nearly useless (what Sharp carries dual 9's anymore, and how often does the Sharp even have to fall back on Dual HCs with the M14?) in the Sharp arsenal to the point that it's not even worth getting them anymore.
If someone wanted a revolver, they'd ask for a revolver and not make a whole thread spent designing another perk. It's about fulfilling an obvious and fun gameplay archetype that can be done with very little work on TW's part.
Why? People in this thread say stuff over and over again, but they offer no explanation. Didn't anyone here take 3rd grade/year English? Has anyone heard of the word "because"? If you don't rationalize you reasons behind something, don't feel bad if they are marginalized or discounted by the people reading your comments.
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I would prefer if there were NO headshot bonus damage for Gunslinger, instead the ZEDtime based bonuses (higher chance to trigger, higher damage during ZEDtime). If GS get headshot damage bonus, it would really feel like "Sharpshooter II", as some here stated.
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I do like the idea behind the main role of the perk which is to balance the current overweaponness (basically having to many weapons) to the sharpshooter perk, with the sharpy's weaponry being fairer tear wise (LAR as Tear 1, EBR Tier 2, Crossbow Tier 3) instead of the current Tier 1, 9mm, Tier 2 handcannon and LAR, Tier 3 EBR Tier 4 Crossbow. The clear work behind the perk also makes it valid alongside the other perks except for one problem.
The perk doesn't have a 2ndry role.
The Firebug can track targets by setting them alight, commandos can see cloaked pattys, support can weld doors, medics tank ext. Whats this perks 2ndry role?
If we go with the Glock's G18, the perks only useful for crowd control which is already done well by the demoman,firebug, basicly every perk except medic and berserker and it doesn't introduce a 2ndry role to the perk, The Heavy hitting revolver then puts it as a Taking down heavy targets as a 2ndry role, which is currently only being done as sharpy and demo man.
Also another problem is with weight, if the 9mm's and the handcannons come to 8 total dual welded, that leaves the rev's 4 weight (I'm guessing here) still able to be used which then opens up a whole other issue.
Why should this perk be allowed to carry 3 tiers of weaponry when the rest are normally stuck with two? (With the exception of the demoman which can carry pipebombs as well as both its nade launchers).
That could be balanced by increasing the weight of one rev to 4.
As for the Zed time chance increase, it depends by how much, though really the perk could use a speed boost, your carrying handguns not a pair of shotguns.
The perk doesn't have a 2ndry role.
The Firebug can track targets by setting them alight, commandos can see cloaked pattys, support can weld doors, medics tank ext. Whats this perks 2ndry role?
If we go with the Glock's G18, the perks only useful for crowd control which is already done well by the demoman,firebug, basicly every perk except medic and berserker and it doesn't introduce a 2ndry role to the perk, The Heavy hitting revolver then puts it as a Taking down heavy targets as a 2ndry role, which is currently only being done as sharpy and demo man.
Also another problem is with weight, if the 9mm's and the handcannons come to 8 total dual welded, that leaves the rev's 4 weight (I'm guessing here) still able to be used which then opens up a whole other issue.
Why should this perk be allowed to carry 3 tiers of weaponry when the rest are normally stuck with two? (With the exception of the demoman which can carry pipebombs as well as both its nade launchers).
That could be balanced by increasing the weight of one rev to 4.
As for the Zed time chance increase, it depends by how much, though really the perk could use a speed boost, your carrying handguns not a pair of shotguns.
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