well bender 711, its not exactly cake to raise a gun and fire at a target in a crowded airplane filled with countless other passengers that could get hit because you shoot before you get a good mark on the bastard.
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Oberst Freitag said:when are you going to need an automatic rifle? WHne the chinamen invade? Thast the only thing i can think off...Self Defense is a joke...a shotgun is a much more useful self-defense tool.
I live in NY which is also has some strict gun laws but luckily im in upstate nY which isnt too bad...i have some shotguns and rifles that i use for hunting and thats it. I dont sport shoot...the only time im not shooting for hunting is when im sighting them in before deer season.
But i support gun laws to an extent...to me the Assault Weapons ban is a joke because of what htey classify as an AR...it menas practically nothing...i would hope they eventually fix it and make it more realistic. As much as some of you are pro-gun...there is need for some of these laws....yes for the most part people who buy these guns are going to be safe with them and wont commit armed robberies...but chances are they can be stolen from the owners and used in said crimes...and that leaves the local pd at a disadvantage.
Just look at the Norht Hollywood shootout...the california legislature has every right to enact those laws after that incident...
Oberst Freitag said:yes...but you're still not thinking it through...these people would have their guns out first and wouldnt hesitate to shoot...the civilains would probably hesitate shooting someone
{YBBS}Sage said:Bender: guns and pressurized aircraft cabins don't mix well. Air Marshals use low-velocity ammo and train in marksmanship in the hopes of avoiding a miss and avoiding having bullets over-penetrate. A bullet goes through that fuselage and everybody could die. Explosive decompression is not a good thing...
{YBBS}Sage said:Oh, and to whoever it was that said that shotgun slugs won't penetrate body armor:
It depends partly on the slug used, and on the armor used. In either event, unless they're wearing a plate, and you hit said plate, if you hit someone in the chest with a 12 gauge slug, even if it doesn't "defeat" their armor, it's going to cause a LOT of bluntforce trauma. As in breaking ribs kind of trauma. It will still knock someone down (but not across the street like in movies.)
Musketeer said:Nobody is going to be sucked out of holes in the airplane, fuselage sections are not going to tear off, and the plane is not going to crash. Take an SMG and make the aircraft look like Swiss Cheese and the plane will still not "Explosively Decompress" like something out of science fiction. Damgae to aircraft systems is a concern but that is why there are redundant systems. People who do not get oxygen will pass out and if the pilot did not descend they may die after some time. That is why there are oxygen masks. FYI I have a BS in Aerospace Engineering from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University so I knw a littel about planes even though I am no longer directly tied into the industry.
Musketeer said:True but the advantage of having a concealed handgun is the criminal does not know it is there. He will have to focus his attention elsewhere at some time. That is when you do the smart thing and shoot him in the back. This is not Hollywood and the only fair gunfight is the one that you win.
As far as hessitating, being able and being willing are two different things. I am willing, others may not be. That is an individual decision but it is no man's right to make it for another.
problem is, is that few people have a CCW license...and the chances of them being the ones on those particular planes is slim to nillMusketeer said:True but the advantage of having a concealed handgun is the criminal does not know it is there. He will have to focus his attention elsewhere at some time. That is when you do the smart thing and shoot him in the back. This is not Hollywood and the only fair gunfight is the one that you win.
As far as hessitating, being able and being willing are two different things. I am willing, others may not be. That is an individual decision but it is no man's right to make it for another.
they dont need one...because they're terrorists and i highly doubt that they would pay attention to laws like the CCW...Bender711 said:And no one has awnsered how the bad guys on the plane would have a CCW.
You have entirely too much faith in the security of airports.Bender711 said:Ok, they are still going to be searched at the airport. And if they dont have a concealed carry licence (and they have a concealed weapon) they will be arrested.
So again, you've havent thought things through nearly far enough.
QFT...even after 9/11 airport secruity is still a joke[CiA]Stiletto said:You have entirely too much faith in the security of airports.
Ever hear of the Anarchangel? He's somewhat big on the libertarian/gun-nut side side of the blogosphere. He's a security consultant.
His words: sneaking guns into aircraft is so trivially easy, it can be done by accident .
The Soup Nazi said:Because in order to embrace gun control, one must throw logic and sensible thinking out of the window and forsake the usage of the left side of the brain.
Enemies forien and domestic, meaning if there is ever a need for another Revolution, our people would have the means to overthrow a corrupt government. That is just as important as keeping king george at bay.[-project.rattus-] said:I might add that everyone who has a fully automated handgun is trained the proper way to handle it. They are not sold in Walmarts to random, but IIRC, they get it when they serve their obligatory time in the swiss army, and thus know that an automatic weapon is no toy to play around with.
And concerning "protection": I bet a pepperspray or another non-lethal weapon does the very same thing, without the risk of killing yourself, someone other, or losing beloved ones in an accident.
Oh, and the "foreign enemies" part is a very nice anarchronism, just like the 2nd amendment... which was added when the threat of a british invasion (King George?) was a very real one... But please tell me one single other occasion where privately owned guns fended off such a "foreign enemy"...
BuddyLee said:Enemies forien and domestic, meaning if there is ever a need for another Revolution, our people would have the means to overthrow a corrupt government. That is just as important as keeping king george at bay.