Yep, I feel like the flamethrower should always be struggling to get in-range of his weapon.
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RS Flamethrower underpowered?
- Thread starter Krane65
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Yep, I feel like the flamethrower should always be struggling to get in-range of his weapon.
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Personally I've found that if you can lay low and manage to successfully flank an enemy objective, you likely will kill anywhere from 4 to 14 players before someone wises up and guns you down. I find it remarkable that every few lives I can successfully pull this off, though a huge mistake on the part of those IJA teams was not watching their flanks and when I staretd torching people, no one looked towards the point of origin for the flames (or even cared to shift fire towards me).
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The difficulty of this discussion is that we only have our personal experiences, and they can and will vary. To make it even more difficult, it's known that not all weapons are equal in this game, and that's what makes it fun.
The only thing that matters is that the teams as a whole are balanced, and to see this we need map stats (don't know if they are available to the public).
If maps/teams are unbalanced and one side consistently wins more than the other, the maps/teams should be balanced.
The only thing that matters is that the teams as a whole are balanced, and to see this we need map stats (don't know if they are available to the public).
If maps/teams are unbalanced and one side consistently wins more than the other, the maps/teams should be balanced.
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The flamethrower has a very specific role, and in most cases isnt very useful at all. Yes, you can clear a bunker with it, but getting there is usually very difficult with your limited range... you basically can only run and hope they don't shoot you.
When you finally get to a good position, you can spray a little, but this will attract so much attention that you're dead before you manage to kill a single guy.
I don't know why people say it's a rambo class, because it fails miserably at that. Compared to a nice banzai charge... now that's rambo (but the good kind)
Honestly, all you need is a not-incompetent Squadleader.
Spawn right outside the bunker/house, flame everything inside, wait close to one of the entry points, and grill a few reinforcements as they try to get back into the bunker/house. I know that it can be that easy, cause I've done it. You can even stop a organized banzai charge dead in it's tracks in this position (I got 6 people charging into me in one big flaming lance), and looking at the steam-achievement stats regarding the flamethrower I'm not the only one who managed this at least once.
I love playing the class, but yeah - in it's current state it's overpowered. Not being able to spawn on SL would be a good way to go about it, maybe coupled with a movement change. It would leave the crazy things a flamer could do, but would require some (team)work to get them into the position to pull it off.
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no spawn on squad leader should be the first thing TWI does to the flamethrower, then lets see how many people say it still needs to be nerfed.
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just calling it a "lamer", counts out your testimony in my little world. (even though I do agree.
It's an old thing I picked up back when I played Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. The No Quarter mod had ridiculously powerful flamethrowers too so everyone just called it the lamer because getting killed with it was lame and had no counterplay. They'd sprint up, hold down the left mouse button, and run off with PENTAKILLLLLLZ. Sound familiar? The difference was in ET you were only two shooting people with a sniper rifle to the face or a panzerfaust to the anywhere. In this you can kill flamers with one bullet if you can hit them through their magical fiery force field.
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Of all the myths that surrounds the flamer, this one seems to be the most widespread. I've been playing as flamer the past week so that I can make an opinion on it, and I've been killed dozens of times while flaming people: the flames do not create some magical force field.
Also, people have claimed to have caught on fire without the flames touching: well the inverse has been happening to me. I will flame someone and they will not burn. So these instances are not biased, just poor implementation of the flaming system.
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Well this one is pretty interesting. There have been times where I've certainly felt like there could be some truth to it. When playing as the Japanese you quickly build up hate against this powerful foe, so when you feel you ought to have got the kill it sucks. The flames also makes it harder to see if you actually are aiming right at him at times.
And it's not like the game robs you on a kill now and then(poor latency or bad luck). As much as I sometimes want to believe this myth I'm pretty sure it's just in your head.
IF there is some truth to this at all, it's not as easy as total invulnerability while flaming, some more circumstances are required for this to happen. But again, I doubt it.
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Joined a game in the second round on Hanto last night, as Allied.
Axis took the battle all the way to the last cap before running out of reinforcements.
When the round stopped our Flamer had roosted 137 japs and probably a few friendlies too. Nice a stack of burgers.
This may seam unfair, and it possibly is on Hanto, because as soon as they get close to the fence, they're toast
I love the flamer as it is
Axis took the battle all the way to the last cap before running out of reinforcements.
When the round stopped our Flamer had roosted 137 japs and probably a few friendlies too. Nice a stack of burgers.
This may seam unfair, and it possibly is on Hanto, because as soon as they get close to the fence, they're toast
I love the flamer as it is
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90% of the SL's I meet must be really awfull then (and this is probably the hard truth as well...).
But yes, a skilled SL + skilled Flamethrower = awesome.
The same can be said about other classes, operated by skilled players. I've seen a jap with a mortar kill 5 enemies with almost every shell... that's a loooot of kills, by a player who isn't even visible to the enemy, and doesn't need the help of a good SL.
You could argue that the flamethrower is easier to play than the mortar, but then again I see most flamethrowers fail miserably. Honestly, I've never even seen a skilled one that actually scares me.
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It's widespread because it's true. The flames don't stop bullets they just make you invisible and probably make bullets miss. A smart flamer when he's advancing can just puff away to make a big smoky field he can happily waltz on through while everyone shoots blindly into the fire and smoke because if you get within 50 meters it's good game. It happens all the time.
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A valid and realistic tactic. If a flame obscures your view of an operator, logically you're not going to be able to pinpoint him.
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Except for the part where running through your own flames should light you on fire and yet it never does.
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The contents of the napalm tanks are under pressure and should explode if shot. Should have the same effect as a grenade but with flames.
Plus it's historically accurate,
Plus it's historically accurate,
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There is no napalm in a flamethrower. It's fuel, thickened, propelled by high-pressured Nitrogen. Which might rupture. Maybe. Not explode. And only when shot with highly penetrating round. Leaking fuel might start to burn, but even then it's rather unlikely to see the tank explode, simply because thickened fuel doesn't exactly produce a lot of vapors.
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Yep we've been over this many times, flamethrowers didn't explode when hit with bullets, that's Hollywood.
Two tanks on your back. One is inert compressed nitrogen propellant (no explosion), and one is jellied-or-not fuel (only the vapors of which could possibly explode, but in a pressurized tank the liquid stays liquid).
Two tanks on your back. One is inert compressed nitrogen propellant (no explosion), and one is jellied-or-not fuel (only the vapors of which could possibly explode, but in a pressurized tank the liquid stays liquid).
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I've hit people directly with the flamethrower (or the general position they're in) and I get no kill. It doesnt seem to want to kill anyone if they're more than 10m away.
Dunno where this is coming from. Folks were having no difficulty dispatching me
with the thing repeatedly as recently as yesterday. You see flames coming in yer direction, you gone brotha. And one pattern I've noticed is this: if you manage to have gotten a grenade off, or a point blank grenade launch, or weapon shot at the perpetrator prior to being lit up, the effect seems to be nullified in hit detection. A simultaneous kill against a fire-bottle is rare.
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Dunno where this is coming from. Folks were having no difficulty dispatching me
with the thing repeatedly as recently as yesterday. You see flames coming in yer direction, you gone brotha. And one pattern I've noticed is this: if you manage to have gotten a grenade off, or a point blank grenade launch, or weapon shot at the perpetrator prior to being lit up, the effect seems to be nullified in hit detection. A simultaneous kill against a fire-bottle is rare.
You should play more Axis. I don't think the flamethrower is overpowered, but I completely understand this guy's frustration. Up close, the way the hit detection on the flamethrower works means that it very frequently seems like you should have killed them (the flamethrower-wielding enemy), but in reality they have already sprayed you and you are screwed. Far away, you feel like you've shot them, but if they are shooting it's kind of 'iffy' if they are where you think they are.
I think most people that have played many hours of Axis know this experience. Fire a lot of bullets into a flamethrower character to realize you're dead already.
I should note that I love the hit detection/netcode for all projectile-based weapons. Flamethrowers are notoriously difficult to model in the first place, let alone with the extremely crisp and accurate hit detection we've seen since the mutator and subsequential adoption by TWI.
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On Realistic, which is what I play on, the Flamethrower is not underpowered. If you can get to the right range, anyone who comes near you is a certified kill.
Action mode, however, is where it's much more challenging to use.
Action mode, however, is where it's much more challenging to use.
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Things I wanna see:
-either slower sprint, or drastically reduced sprint times
-Shooting point blank or indoors kills flamer guy too
-must deploy (Slow walk) to shoot
-removed from defensive maps
then we have a balanced "Bunker Killer" flamer
Lets face it, IRL the flamer was a frontal assault support trooper. Buddies would cover him, so he could set up a shot on a bunker filled with Japanese....not like we have now where he sprints around the map racking up kill after kill anywhere from 40 meters to 0 meters with not regard to the 80 pound pack on his back, no recoil, and total immunity to his own flames (where as the japanese knee mortar must be careful where he shoots...even leaves set it off)
-either slower sprint, or drastically reduced sprint times
-Shooting point blank or indoors kills flamer guy too
-must deploy (Slow walk) to shoot
-removed from defensive maps
then we have a balanced "Bunker Killer" flamer
Lets face it, IRL the flamer was a frontal assault support trooper. Buddies would cover him, so he could set up a shot on a bunker filled with Japanese....not like we have now where he sprints around the map racking up kill after kill anywhere from 40 meters to 0 meters with not regard to the 80 pound pack on his back, no recoil, and total immunity to his own flames (where as the japanese knee mortar must be careful where he shoots...even leaves set it off)
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