Commissar's House balance

[Calumhm]

We all know what I'm going to say. A.

'A' used to be a cap that was basically free. Perhaps TOO easy then. Now, every time I play, I see A take over 10 mins to be taken and kept, if it happens at all. (this is on 64p servers, FYI) Germans just get in the building too quickly and can hold the building too well.

I don't need to tell the map designer this, but A is a vantage point which when under Allied control, helps in the cap of B, keeps Germans from being too confident between A/C, and can suppress D firing positions. Like RedOct, this map gets bogged down on A very very often.

We can probably assume the level designers are aware of this, but still, let's give them feedback. Leave a comment, tell them what you think.

 

[Sarkis.]

We all know what I'm going to say. A.

'A' used to be a cap that was basically free. Perhaps TOO easy then. Now, every time I play, I see A take over 10 mins to be taken and kept, if it happens at all. (this is on 64p servers, FYI) Germans just get in the building too quickly and can hold the building too well.

I don't need to tell the map designer this, but A is a vantage point which when under Allied control, helps in the cap of B, keeps Germans from being too confident between A/C, and can suppress D firing positions. Like RedOct, this map gets bogged down on A very very often.

We can probably assume the level designers are aware of this, but still, let's give them feedback. Leave a comment, tell them what you think.

When a german commander sets arty behind A, in relation to him, he will lock it until the last shell has fallen. However, and here I come to spoil all the fun... There are many tricks, and people have begun to learn them, that make A and B much easier to capture. Such as throwing grenades over the wall of the house at A, so it falls on the second floor (that trick cuts both ways) but the russians can still cap from outside once they clear the inside, and that is a minor advantage. Not going for A until B is cleared, since the germans use B as a great firing position to cover A. And obviously, have the T-34 support the assault at A, and having allied artillery behind it in addition to all the smoke they can provide etc.

If those tricks fail, and that happens a lot, a good german team can turn A & B into a deadlock.

I'd be lenient to say that Commissar's as a whole is only hard at A, and the final 2 caps. However at the 2 final ones, the germans generally have no more reinforcements, even if both teams play well. Since the germans also have a really bad time reinforcing A, because they are also under tank fire, arty fire, having to cross in the open somewhat, and in a cross fire of 2 HMGs.. I'd restrain from calling A such a hard cap, it is challenging, no doubt of that. Nowhere near as hard as Sparta Church, or A from Red October or Station.

A is not an easy cap, but overall, the Russians have more than enough reinforcements to fail multiple times and still win.

 

[LordKhaine]

I think many of the changes to this map have been badly done. A was always the issue at the start, so how is the map changed? Trenches added to help cap B and D, and A is changed to be recappable?!? It makes no sense to make the easy objectives easier and the hard objectives harder.

All of the changes to the map just increase the time the action stalls for at certain points. The map has a large number of objectives, but it's always just the same few ones being fought over.

 

[kathmandu]

making axis spawn far away of the first building at the beginning with do. / and making russian team learn that they need to get inside the building instead of standing next to the wall outside.

 

[kid Charlemagne]

i love this map, and i prefer to play as a russian.
i want it to stay as it is or even as it was before the changes.

fighting the war on Christmas is awesome

 

[SturmSS]

I think A should be uncappable. I realise that Russians can cap A just from being at the wall, but that doesnt negate the fact that Germans are fortified in A and blocking the cap. Like you've said A can take half of the map time to cap and is very important for the subsequent capping of B and D. So this does create quite the bottleneck

 

[Kowalczyk]

I agree that this map is very difficult for allies, the fact that A and B are recappable means it becomes a see-saw.

Allies cap A, and go for B, Axis cap A back, Allies cap B, then try for A again and it goes on and on usually, and ends up that C is hardly ever capped and if so, then Allies run out of reinforcements and Axis win in the end.

The changes on the map may have seemed to make things easier for Allies with trenches and so on, but before this A wasn't able to be recapped.

 

[Nikita]

The best balance with regards to A, in my opinion, would be to make a satchel objective allowing you to blow a hole in the right side wall where the ground floor windows are. Another destructible objective allowing you to blow a hole in the stone wall between A and the Russian spawn would also be helpful.

Overall, though, this map isn't that unbalanced. The main issues are the park capture zones, Lockdown in Realism, and some spawn camping issues.

On the way to A, 80% of the Russian team has to pass through the left gap in the high stone wall. Germans know this, rush to their right upon spawning, plop down two MG34s, and spam the gateway. Germans suicide-charging out of A can throw satchels and grenades behind the wall where everyone is crouched, and a German running in front of A can even bounce a grenade almost all the way back towards the Russian spawn.

There's also the fact that you can't use the radio in the building right of A without being exposed to enemy fire.


~~~~~~~~~

The Park capture zones are, simply put, the least fun objectives to fight over in the entire game. And now, after the GOTY patch, you now have to take D and C AT THE SAME TIME. Sure, there's a trench leading to D now, but you still have to sprint across open ground the last twenty meters, then dive into that trench and cower for your life while supposedly 'capturing' the point. It's just not a very fun cap.

With Lockdown in Realism, this map is hell. Classic, without lockdown, actually gives the Russians a better chance.

 

[easton1234]

The map has been changed like 2-3x so far... All because people find it diff. As of now it is soooo screwed up. All TWI needs to do is to go back to how they originally made it. It was fine. When the game 1st came out and CoreNA, CC, nXs etc clans played pubbing the allies won 30-40 percent of the time. But all the moving of spawns, adding trenches has killed the map. TWI just release the 1st version. It was fine. It was new guys to the game that cried about it not being easy for the Allies to win.
Great map.... when 1st released........

 

[Cwivey]

The map has been changed like 2-3x so far... All because people find it diff. As of now it is soooo screwed up. All TWI needs to do is to go back to how they originally made it. It was fine. When the game 1st came out and CoreNA, CC, nXs etc clans played pubbing the allies won 30-40 percent of the time. But all the moving of spawns, adding trenches has killed the map. TWI just release the 1st version. It was fine. It was new guys to the game that cried about it not being easy for the Allies to win.
Great map.... when 1st released........

Except for the spawn killing tank shooting into the spawn at A.

 

[Nezzer]

IMHO all they should do now to Commissar's House is raise the amount of reinforcements of both teams. It really annoys me how both teams ALWAYS run out of reinforcements by the time the Allies reach F.

 

[BuenaventuraDurruti]

One thing I have noticed that frustrates me about A is how they have recently added a roof of steel grating. Time was, the Russians could negate the German sweetspot on the second floor by making it a vulnerable place in terms of grenades. Now, it is infuriatingly hard to get the German campers up there, and they are in a spot where they can rack up a tonne of kills.

A suggestion on my part would be to return that side of A to its formerly roofless self, but maybe put a wall, or some other kind of barrier, down in the second floor to reduce the lethality of Russian Grenades.

 

[Cwivey]

One thing I have noticed that frustrates me about A is how they have recently added a roof of steel grating. Time was, the Russians could negate the German sweetspot on the second floor by making it a vulnerable place in terms of grenades. Now, it is infuriatingly hard to get the German campers up there, and they are in a spot where they can rack up a tonne of kills.

The roof gets blown off with Artillery / tank shells. Pretty sure it's always been that way.

 

[easton1234]

Except for the spawn killing tank shooting into the spawn at A.

Yes this is true. I think servers can lower the vote kick #.

 

[BuenaventuraDurruti]

The roof gets blown off with Artillery / tank shells. Pretty sure it's always been that way.

Oh really? I get that an artillery strike at that location at the beginning of the game would be a really bad way to start off as Soviet Commander, but that adds an interesting option to the Soviet Tankers. Could the engineer blow it off with an AT grenade as well?

 

[SturmSS]

I would probably find the time limit more annoying than the reinforcement count. I find that the allies can usually get to the last two objectives (G and H) painstakingly ... and this is because of the difficulty faced with the see-sawing of the first few objectives.

 

[[Mad_Murdock]]

Yes this is true. I think servers can lower the vote kick #.

I don't think that will solve the problem. They will still take out a good 2-5 reinforcement waves before the vote even finishes, and then go on their merry way in the knowledge of a job well done.

 

[Rabid Penguin]

Oh really? I get that an artillery strike at that location at the beginning of the game would be a really bad way to start off as Soviet Commander, but that adds an interesting option to the Soviet Tankers. Could the engineer blow it off with an AT grenade as well?

When I'm Russian Commander, if we get bogged at A, and if I have a halfway organisable team, my strategy is to hit A with rockets to clear the building and then rush it immediately. It works the majority of the time, unless the Russian team just suck, or the Germans are insanely good or respond with arty on A instantly.

Then, as soon as A caps, have the majority of your team immediately hit B hard while all the Germans are rushing back to try and retake A. As soon as you take B, both caps lock down and can't be recaptured.

 

[LugNut]

Eh, the main problem with this map is that it's too linear, so it always plays the same. Adding minor tweaks won't change that at all. Same bottle necks, same death traps, same spawn camping, same MG fire lanes, etc. If there was more room to flank and more incentive to do so, the battle would migrate and leave opportunities open for the attackers and keep the defenders swiveling their heads. Spread the caps out laterally a bit and the map would open up, we only fight in @ 50% of it.

D could be more strategic, add a bit more cover in the park, if there's a tank from either side there, you're completely shut down even with the trenches and you're completely ineffective except if you're in the building if you're allied. Enable spawns on the far side of the park so both sides can fight over D from multiple directions.

I don't care if the map is hard, or even if it's unbalanced, I always join the losing side on a map because I like the challenge. I solely hate the sameness of it, I'd much rather give the Ruskies some options, so they can at least try new things tactically.

 

[TrOOper]

Eh, the main problem with this map is that it's too linear, so it always plays the same. Adding minor tweaks won't change that at all. Same bottle necks, same death traps, same spawn camping, same MG fire lanes, etc. If there was more room to flank and more incentive to do so, the battle would migrate and leave opportunities open for the attackers and keep the defenders swiveling their heads. Spread the caps out laterally a bit and the map would open up, we only fight in @ 50% of it.

D could be more strategic, add a bit more cover in the park, if there's a tank from either side there, you're completely shut down even with the trenches and you're completely ineffective except if you're in the building if you're allied. Enable spawns on the far side of the park so both sides can fight over D from multiple directions.

I don't care if the map is hard, or even if it's unbalanced, I always join the losing side on a map because I like the challenge. I solely hate the sameness of it, I'd much rather give the Ruskies some options, so they can at least try new things tactically.

I like your ideas for this map! Wish it were so!