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Argument that KDR is "unimportant" in this game

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#21
GRIZZLY said:
Tovarisch is turning in his grave on the old plains of the Ostfront. I remember a time, back in the 1940s, when men died to protect their comrades and to seize their objectives. Truly a heart breaking thread. :(

Screw KDR and anyone on my team who cares about it. It's not important in any game ever unless the game mode is Team Deathmatch. There is no Team Deathmatch in RO (Thank God).
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Actually, I think RO2 does meatgrinder with terrifying authenticity on the right map - maybe the best yet. Some of it is accidental (and a consequence of too many people being able to place too many bullets exactly where they want) but it is undoubtedly very tense & brutal on some occasions.

It lacks ROOST's deliberately imposed structure and, and the stats system is almost entirely responsible for the grinding and number culture, but TWI did that and we must now live with it as there is the hard fact a large number of players - the ones sitting on the servers right now - like it.

For example, if it's properly defended, you're not going to cross the river on Bridges of Dhruzina without using some of your virtual lives, as there's usually a blanket of lead covering the approaches. It's occasionally frustrating but certainly scary; witness the amount of players that hang back; they're intimidated.
 
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#22
GRIZZLY said:
Tovarisch is turning in his grave on the old plains of the Ostfront. I remember a time, back in the 1940s, when men died to protect their comrades and to seize their objectives. Truly a heart breaking thread. :(

Screw KDR and anyone on my team who cares about it. It's not important in any game ever unless the game mode is Team Deathmatch. There is no Team Deathmatch in RO (Thank God).
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lmao.

sorry but 10 kills and 3 deaths is better than 10 deaths and 3 kills. You can have the guy that dies all the time. I'll take the guy that kills your guy anyday of the week.

like i said, "Spawn, Run, Die." useless.
 
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#23
GRIZZLY said:
Tovarisch is turning in his grave on the old plains of the Ostfront. I remember a time, back in the 1940s, when men died to protect their comrades and to seize their objectives. Truly a heart breaking thread. :(

Screw KDR and anyone on my team who cares about it. It's not important in any game ever unless the game mode is Team Deathmatch. There is no Team Deathmatch in RO (Thank God).
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This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Yes you will die, but you don't have to win the game for the other team singlehandedly by rushing their guns head on.

If you take one objective, and die 30-40 times in a game you're hindering your team more than helping it. One can kill the enemy, take an objective and move to the next one without dying. You don't win by dying more than the enemy.
 
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#25
To many people tries to dictate over others and tell them how to play.

My philosophy is simple: Do what's been proven to work.

If your goal is to only gain XP, then that is alright, because gaining XP is as a matter of fact a quite important part of the game and it do have an impact on your overall experience. If the game rewards you for lone-wolfing, well then that pretty much shows that the game is supposed to be like that. It's not a glitch or bug.

Interesting to claim that MG is only for suppression, though. If you manage to kill a load of people with it, then that's better than suppression, because dead player's do not shoot back.

No, in my opinion people who scream ''CAMPERS'' or ''Come out and fight!'' seems to OFTEN be those who have a hard time to play the game and gets upset because other people play more dynamic then them and adapt to the battle. So when they get killed the blame the person who killed them.

When it comes to helping your team the amount of kills is sometimes irrelevant. In ROOST I could sometimes (always depending on the current situation) kill only ten players in a one and half hour match - players armed with AT-weapons ready to strike against our tanks or snipers, or MGs who otherwise would have taken out many teammates and halted out advance.

Being a good teamleader by giving order via mic, or the command system (not the console radial in ro2 because it is horrible), assigning reallypoints, etc. does not give any score but is still something worth more than killing.
 
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#26
Unfortunately, I find that when I play MGer, I get killed as much from SMGs than from bolts, because they can be so accurate at longer distances and also because the damn suppression effects seem to affect me more than the guy I am shooting at!!

I do think though, that given the choice between killing a guy and suppressing him, killing is always better, so I focus on short bursts of suppression, and longer periods of looking to see if anybody pops their head out of cover.

I don't think the maps we have now, apart from maybe custom maps, can be looked at in a realistic way, most just don't have that long clear line of sight that would really make an MG effective as well as hard to hit at that longer range. Once you have fired and exposed your position, I think you can expect a bullet in the head very soon afterwards in most cases.
 
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#27
Cyper said:
To many people tries to dictate over others and tell them how to play.

My philosophy is simple: Do what's been proven to work.

If your goal is to only gain XP, then that is alright, because gaining XP is as a matter of fact a quite important part of the game and it do have an impact on your overall experience. If the game rewards you for lone-wolfing, well then that pretty much shows that the game is supposed to be like that. It's not a glitch or bug.

Interesting to claim that MG is only for suppression, though. If you manage to kill a load of people with it, then that's better than suppression, because dead player's do not shoot back.

No, in my opinion people who scream ''CAMPERS'' or ''Come out and fight!'' seems to OFTEN be those who have a hard time to play the game and gets upset because other people play more dynamic then them and adapt to the battle. So when they get killed the blame the person who killed them.

When it comes to helping your team the amount of kills is sometimes irrelevant. In ROOST I could sometimes (always depending on the current situation) kill only ten players in a one and half hour match - players armed with AT-weapons ready to strike against our tanks or snipers, or MGs who otherwise would have taken out many teammates and halted out advance.

Being a good teamleader by giving order via mic, or the command system (not the console radial in ro2 because it is horrible), assigning reallypoints, etc. does not give any score but is still something worth more than killing.
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Yep, all of that rings true, map dynamics are always to be taken into account, on some maps where player count is low I may only get 4-5 kills as squad leader, but be top of scoreboard for team points. I am using the class to it's full potential for that situation. I think if you can take that philosophy to the game you will do well and win matches if your team helps as well.


I see it in alot of games, FPS, RTS, 2d fighting games, when people lose or die or don't do well they always blame everything/everyone but themselves. While sometimes it IS your teams fault (terrible team), often it is simply the complainer who is bad and unwillingly to accept that. People like this will never improve sadly. That's why this kind of thing annoys me so much, just because I can excell at the game, doesn't mean I'm hacking or "camping" or "laming", it just means I can identify what I was doing wrong and adapt accordingly.
 
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#28
Lauch said:
For me only the high amount of kills matters not the KD

sometimes i spawn and die instantly from arty or some other **** and repeat it again and then i kill 10 players in a row, repeat the first 2 steps

high killcount means way more
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I'm sure everyone has joined a game where 10yds from the spawn point lies insta-death, sometimes several times, before you can figure out how to move off safely.
 
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#30
Depends on what you want from the game to win or just to play for points and kills.There is a lot of players who could care less about winning and just play for points.I like to win myself or more so .... I hate to loose.Players should have fun and people will play how they want.I never try to dictate how other people play.

The good players get decant KDR while being in the capzone helping their team.Minus mg and snipers they are the exception but even they should be supporting the objective in some way.What gets me is assault and riflemen who barely leave the spawn thinking their 20 kills will win the match :rolleyes:.

It is stupid seeing whole squads charge the same arty over and over.Or getting killed by the SAME mg 5 times in a row.Then again its lame to get locked out because your team refuses to push the cap for fear of death.Or getting bum rushed because only 3 guys is brave enough to enter the cap on defense.It goes both ways and can be frustrating

This is not a death match game and round can be won by playing for the objectives.More often this is what wins matches in TE simply getting more bodies in the cap.With good teams aggressive capzone type tactics will beat KDR any day. Using team work proper smoke ,arty and support so your grunts can safely get in the objective.

Reinforcements mean nothing if you steam roll the map taking all objectives while the other team ignores caps and camps.Or getting bum rushed or locked out with the timer by leaving the caps empty.Ignore the capzone loose the match its that simple.

Flanking and blocking is important but a single smoke can block your line of sight.Letting the enemy reach the empty zone so you still need bodies in the cap if you want to win.Most of the really serious KDR players never enter an objective... to risky they may die ...this is the flaw in their tactic

IMO it takes a combination of both tactics to be effective.Knowing when to be aggressive and when to play safe.Watching reinforcement counts and timer all factor in on how you should play.At the start of a round I will be aggressive if we start loosing on reinforcements I will start playing safer.If we have a huge lead on reinforcements I'm really aggressive.If the enemy has the huge lead I will play cowardly and only worry about KDR (depending on the time remaining)

My point being both styles are bad in extreme you have to have awareness to know when to charge and when to play safe to be really effective.

If you really are supporting your teams effort by covering or entering the objective KDR all you want I have np with that.If your a assault or rifleman and have not left the spawn .... You better have 100 kills because.... your class should be supporting the objective if you want to win.
 
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#31
KDR meaning "kill/to dying ratio" ? ...I take it..
You should be more concerned with your Victory/defeat ratio, imho. If you are winning sides more often than losing ones, that to me seems to be a greater and larger indicator as to performance.
I mean, people who are KDR obsessed could sit there and farm bots all day and have a great KDR...it's silly.

Plus, there are roles and situations that you MUST get killed while doing...I certainly realize this after recently spending alot of time in the AT role. You MUST sometimes run out and kamikaze that enemy tank, to help save your side.
 
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#32
On some maps spawn-run-die is a valid tactic to get enough players into the cap zone. I'm thinking particularly Commissars House A (RU) as most of the fire comes from Germans outside the cap so if enough Russians can survive the rush they will eventually take the cap. It's horribly UN-fun to play like that though.

I disagree that MG should be as far back as possible. Especially the DP28 is much more like a modern squad automatic weapon than a medium machine gun - it works well from a forward position, adding extra firepower to the attack.

Defensively the best position is also often well forward, provided the rest of the team is giving good flank protection. The further forward you are, the further away from the cap zone you can engage the enemy.

There are other times when further back is better. German MGs on Bridges seem to do best when positioned well back on high ground during the early fighting (though how they spot targets so well is beyond me, I should try that side myself to find out). The attacking side should push its MGs well forward though, depending on which cap is being fought over.
 
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#33
Golf33 said:
I disagree that MG should be as far back as possible. Especially the DP28 is much more like a modern squad automatic weapon than a medium machine gun - it works well from a forward position, adding extra firepower to the attack.

Defensively the best position is also often well forward, provided the rest of the team is giving good flank protection. The further forward you are, the further away from the cap zone you can engage the enemy.

There are other times when further back is better. German MGs on Bridges seem to do best when positioned well back on high ground during the early fighting (though how they spot targets so well is beyond me, I should try that side myself to find out). The attacking side should push its MGs well forward though, depending on which cap is being fought over.
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True. All maps are different, and then even how each team is playing can determine where and how far back an mg should be placed.
 
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#34
Specifically on KDR, very few of the maps are regularly determined by reinforcements running out. Grain Elevator and Mamayev Kurgan are the ones I see going that way most often but on Bridges, Barracks, Sparta, Commissars, Fallen Fighters, Butovo, Red October Factory, Coldsteel I mostly see the result coming from caps or time with both sides still having reinforcements left at map end.
 
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#35
i dont give 2 expletives about my KDR.

id much rather get higher team points, and get my xp if i want it (i dont((now ive maxed out SL haha)) than care about the little point gains or satisfaction from having a good kdr, i believe mine is about 0.79.
yet i dare anyone to say i dont help my team when im often hitting top half dozen high scores per game with sometimes not even double figures in kills.

all kdr is good for is to either give bragging rights or for weapon unlocks, and i dont care for either of them, if they happen they happen if not who cares. and if you do care i dont care that you do care, just play the game and dont be a little cock while doing so. is all i ask
 
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#38
Well my win ratio is about 2 (though I only play German), on some maps I think I can play a very big part in winning the round or game for the team, such as mamyakurgan, pavlovs house, bridges etc simply by killing large amounts of enemy and effectively setting up denial of area to key points, allowing my team to cap and win.
 
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#39
GRIZZLY said:
Tovarisch is turning in his grave on the old plains of the Ostfront. I remember a time, back in the 1940s, when men died to protect their comrades and to seize their objectives. Truly a heart breaking thread. :(

Screw KDR and anyone on my team who cares about it. It's not important in any game ever unless the game mode is Team Deathmatch. There is no Team Deathmatch in RO (Thank God).
Click to expand...

Alright alright. I was being a bit bull headed. Sometimes getting kills IS the objective. Of course if you're an MG defending a bridge then it is going to be very helpful to kill the advancing enemy as much as possible. However, if you're the squad leader trying to capture that same bridge, I'd rather have you die 10 times in a row without getting a kill while throwing smoke and leading the attack than cautiously advance and get a 5:5 KDR while wasting precious time on the clock and pussy footing around behind some sandbags. Also, bear in mind, KDR becomes important when reinforcements are low.

While KDR is technically "important", I just HATE HATE HATE the CoD mentality that it directly correlates to how well a person is performing in the scope of the battle as a whole. Riflemen and Assault need to focus on gaining ground; getting kills in the process won't hurt though. Snipers should be selecting important targets; I'd rather have you spend 60 seconds taking out one MG than 60 seconds taking out three riflemen. Squad Leaders need to be leading the attack. Engineers need to blow up stuff. If fact, the MG is the pretty the only class that should be focusing on achieving a high KDR, and that's only true if they are defending. On offence, the MG should be providing covering fire.

My point is that people can, and frequently do, make a great contribution to the team even with a low KDR. Whether you realize that or not is up to you.
 
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