Argument that KDR is "unimportant" in this game

[2dfrog]

I see several times in servers, usually people at the bottom of the scoreboard the whole round, start complaining about people like myself using MG and "sitting back and camping to boost my KDR". This seems to go across many FPS games, often objective based etc but only when the chips are down for the team.


My counter argument to these people is that I'm doing as much if not more for the team by taking down many enemy players while assault class etc take objectives. They say thats not how the game is meant to be played and while I am in the top 3 on scoreboard, I'm doing nothing to help the team. One person even went as far as to say: "MG class focus isn't killing people, it's suppressing them". He obviously has no idea what he's talking about, but it's sad to see people play this game with that mindset.


I'd like to hear what people think about this, as far as I'm concerned the role of MG is not to "storm objectives", but to clear lanes of territory so your squad and team can advance with little enemy opposition.


So what do you all think? I take objectives when I play assault, I provide a spawnpoint, smoke and take objectives as squadleader, I cover flanks and pick off targets from range as rifleman. I do all this while killing enemies alot more than I die, thats for sure. Is this argument just the excuse of bad players in denial that they're bad?

 

[ARMY guy]

If you were MG and not rambo'in, you def were doing it wrong. I was taking more ground than the MKBs with the mg! I guess you cant do that anymore as easily so now its back to camping in the back of the map taking pot shots.

 

[Mikeedude]

The original maps aren't designed for really good mg usage so its upto players how they want to use the class.

Barashka and bridges are the first two maps I can use an mg to cover an advance.

All other times I'm either sniping on the flanks or giving extra firepower to the advance into the capzone.
I personally couldn't give a monkies how people play the roles as long as they help me attack/defend caps.
Commander is the only exception in that recon and arty cannot be filled in by any other role.
Another byproduct of bigger maps is spotting is now bloomin useful, I can aim and suppress potential targets without having spotted them myself.

p.s if people have enough time in a game to type long sentences or chat about how you should play then they aren't doing their job either.
p.p.s mute is a beautiful thing

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

If you were MG and not rambo'in, you def were doing it wrong. I was taking more ground than the MKBs with the mg! I guess you cant do that anymore as easily so now its back to camping in the back of the map taking pot shots.

The fact that the game previously allowed you to do this was wrong and unrealistic. I will leave it at that.

To the OP. I would say its a combination of suppressing and killing the enemy. Deny the enemy free easy movement about the map so they cannot attack or reinforce objectives. Killing them in the process is an added bonus to you and the team.

 

[Gudenrath]

If you were MG and not rambo'in, you def were doing it wrong. I was taking more ground than the MKBs with the mg! I guess you cant do that anymore as easily so now its back to camping in the back of the map taking pot shots.

The recent patch didn't completely remove the mg ramboing problems. It is still possible to outdraw PPSHs and MP40s in close combat with the mg, and for this reason are being used in close combat almost as frequently as before.

 

[TheRealGunther]

IMO support roles are the exception MG ,sniper and AT gunner as long as your covering your teammates and objectives.The misconceptions I see are in the riflemen.Just because people have a bolt doesn't mean they should just lay back and snipe.Most maps have few assaults so their bodies is needed in the cap.

As support its a good idea to stay alive so you can do your job.Support your team so they can assault/defend.Not only saving reinforcements by not dying giving the assault and riflemen cover as they do their job.

 

[ARMY guy]

The fact that the game previously allowed you to do this was wrong and unrealistic. I will leave it at that.

To the OP. I would say its a combination of suppressing and killing the enemy. Deny the enemy free easy movement about the map so they cannot attack or reinforce objectives. Killing them in the process is an added bonus to you and the team.

Isnt the role of the MG to kill the other team so your team can advance? So how was me killing by far the most people AND capping not in the realm of the game and the role of the MG? I argue it was perfectly fine, but obviously not very realistic. But since its a game, and games will always have gamey parts to them, no issue there. Just seems like a smart usage of the role within the rules put forth by the game and the engine.

Look at day of defeat, if you try to shoot the mg it unrealistically shoots instantly to the ceiling. Would you rather have that?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Isnt the role of the MG to kill the other team so your team can advance? So how was me killing by far the most people AND capping not in the realm of the game and the role of the MG? I argue it was perfectly fine, but obviously not very realistic. But since its a game, and games will always have gamey parts to them, no issue there. Just seems like a smart usage of the role within the rules put forth by the game and the engine.

Look at day of defeat, if you try to shoot the mg it unrealistically shoots instantly to the ceiling. Would you rather have that?

Never played DOD and have no interest in trying it. That the mg fires all over the place just tells me that they took the gun handling too far in the opposite direction. It should be that happy realistic medium

The point I was trying to make was that the game (TWI) should make the mg handling more realistic so it wasn't so easy to rambo with the mg. That was a big flaw in the game as many saw it and that is why it was requested to be changed.

You can play any role the way the game allows you. We can continue to request that those roles be made to play more realistic within the game engine.

 

[ARMY guy]

I know the rambo MG was always a huge thing on these forums but i always wondered why it should not be allowed in some capacity. I assume without having fired a MG before that where it is pointed it shoots, so i dont see why it should not have behaved in the manor it was. The fact we had rambos MGs i think was more because its a video game and people have no fear of death so who cares, you just run in and spam the MG. In real life i doubt people would do the same. I just dont want unrealistic methods of making the MG un rambo'able, as it should always be able to be viable even if its not set up on the bipod. I always saw the bipod is useful for weapon stability and the fact you are hard to hit cause you are prone.

I guess that is one thing that was kind of messed up, the MG seemed to have the same stability unproned as proned, maybe even better when ramboing. Fix this and it should be fine, but dont make it do a Day of Defeat lol

 

[Hayduke]

I play MG almost exclusively. Here are a few comments.

1) If you are not sitting back as far as possible with the MG, you should give up the slot to someone else who knows how to use it. Sitting further back gives you a larger field of fire and you are much more likely to see the enemy b4 they see you.

2) If you are on a larger map(ie Barashka, Commissars) you should almost never be in the cap. You should be ouside most of the time cutting of players trying to get into the cap so your team inside the cap doesnt have to deal with them. Smaller Maps (ie. barracks) find a good lane (the hallway of death at the NCO barracks)..only time you should be in a cap.

3) MGer's in this game get tons of kills because of stupid players who refuse to use tactics or work as a team. If you are trying to take on a mger one on one, you will ALWAYS lose if he has already set up or if he is not flanked. Learn how to flank.

4) The role of the MG is to supress and to make you afraid to go to certain part of the map....redirect you to a place where his team members are waiting for you. Period.

5) Paper-rocks-scissors......marksman takes out MG...this only works however if your team communicates and works as a team.

Ive noticed alot of new players lately and I think it is great ..alot of enthusiasm being brought back into this game. Alot however are so used to COD style of gaming and they get killed over and over and start whining about things like camping and hacking and so forth. As far as I know, in Stalingrad, I dont think that too many soldiers bunnyhopped up and down the main street with no cover and killed everything in sight with their lastest unlock. This is a very unforgiving game for those who cant adjust. If you are getting owned by an MG, think about your options...usually smoke and flank works best...or communicate with your marksman cant do that when you are trying to be Rambo and not work as a team. Most of all, enjoy this GREAT game!!!!

 

[PhoenixDragon]

"MG class focus isn't killing people, it's suppressing them"

When I hear people say this, I like to shoot down a group of a half-dozen people trying to get into the cap. "Hey, look. They're suppressed."

 

[Fisher]

As long as you are actually doing the job: blocking paths, creating gaps in the line etc. then great!

...but I often see MG users sitting an extremely long way away from the objective, not really helping in any way whatsoever; not suppressing, killing, or anything

 

[Sulman]

Players in any game anywhere - even hardcore realism, will do whatever they're allowed to. If a 4' long LMG can be pointed about and fired like an SMG at close quarters, that's how people will use it. If an MP40 shoots like a rifle out to 150m, that's how people will use it.

Don't hate the players. The game lets them do it, and rewards it. They're simply adapting to what works. Fix the problem, not the blame.

 

[MtnMan01]

I play MG almost exclusively. Here are a few comments.
......snip.....
If you are getting owned by an MG, think about your options...usually smoke and flank works best...or communicate with your marksman cant do that when you are trying to be Rambo and not work as a team. Most of all, enjoy this GREAT game!!!!

*******
^^ You can be an mger on my team anyday...good sound knowledge there...of ur role,,,
Bottom line here is a lot n I mean a lot of ppl just don't understand there roles(weapon tactics) in Game. Different maps play differently,different tactics are needed.

The words Squad Tactics/Flanking/Teamwork/Communications/Support are strange words to many.....The Five F's of a small unit tactics...(find/fix/feel/flank/finish)......but this is a game after all..
Would be nice if some took the time to learn at least the basics,
of squad level tactics/support,,,...

Edit; What really Burns my butt, is seeing our own soldiers running in front of firing weapons/Friendlies.
Especially the MG. Over n over again, resulting in TK's. i.e On Spartanovka playing Allied. I am at the stationary LMG just to the left/behind Church in the C cap in that burnt out house.

Ppl just running across my bullet stream time n time again, with me screaming at my screen,,WAKE UP FFS,,,

N the beat goes on....

 

[GARY OAK]

It may be unimportant, but my ego says otherwise :3

To be honest Mg tactics depends entirely on the map.

I find that grain elevator is hilarious for rambo style mg play. Advancing up or down those staircases just spraying like a mad man is hilarious

But in all seriousness most pub servers out there it is hard to get a cohesive group going when you have half your riflemen sitting at the back of the map pixel sniping away when they should be following their squad leaders and protecting their mgs.

But thats multiplayer for you.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

...but I often see MG users sitting an extremely long way away from the objective, not really helping in any way whatsoever; not suppressing, killing, or anything

Believe me, its worse when they are using a ppsh or an mp40, plucking away from a couple hundred meters

 

[7-CLOWN-7]

First off many MG in the war were stationary so obviously if you are an MG Class you are doing the same. This is realistic and how it is to be used - why else would the MG have legs when needed? Not Rambo style.

This too is why teams have snipers to take out said MG or a marksmen rifleman.

The people mostly playing are your DOD, COD, Battlefield kiddies who think everyone should be running around like chickens with your heads cut off not capping, and lone wolfing everything, and repeatedly dieing over and over again.

The MG should ALWAYS be as far back as possible as should a sniper and should remain unseen and doing their job while the other infantry classes are capping and rolling over the battlefield.

Realistically people\infantry should be trying to stay alive rather than seeing how many times they can respawn. If they constantly keep running straight into MG fire that is their problem. Again with proper teamwork most would never be an MG because they'd never live long enough to have a good KDR. Yes I did say TEAMWORK - this too all comes down to those you play with and what servers you frequent.

So to answer your question - you ARE using the MG Class PROPERLY.

 

[Sulman]

It may be unimportant, but my ego says otherwise :3

To be honest Mg tactics depends entirely on the map.

I find that grain elevator is hilarious for rambo style mg play. Advancing up or down those staircases just spraying like a mad man is hilarious

But in all seriousness most pub servers out there it is hard to get a cohesive group going when you have half your riflemen sitting at the back of the map pixel sniping away when they should be following their squad leaders and protecting their mgs.

But thats multiplayer for you.

That's caused by two things:

Firstly, everyone's a marksman, from an SMG assaulter up to an gunner. On smaller maps, keeping up with your SL is a good way to become a dead rifleman. Many of the maps feature lines of sight in combat areas to thr of about 150 metres. The rifleman has be very careful, as in this arena everyone is as accurate as him, also...

Secondly, the dominance of automatic weapons. Everybody can shoot more bullets with the same accuracy, with no penalty. The humble bolter has to be very careful moving forward, or he will be dead very rapidly. Hence, most hang back, and let the run'n'gun crowd go first.

On more open maps it is a different story, but don't complain about conservative rifleman and in the same breath mention KDR, they are just playing the best way they know how.

 

[Oxnard]

Is this argument just the excuse of bad players in denial that they're bad?

Yes.

For some reason, people think you are helping out your team by dying. That's stupid. You can't win if you're dead.

As long as you are staying alive, killing enemies, and running out of ammo, then you're doing a good job.


Half of the players that play FPS games follow this strict code: "Spawn, Run, Die."

USELESS.

 

[GRIZZLY]

Tovarisch is turning in his grave on the old plains of the Ostfront. I remember a time, back in the 1940s, when men died to protect their comrades and to seize their objectives. Truly a heart breaking thread.

Screw KDR and anyone on my team who cares about it. It's not important in any game ever unless the game mode is Team Deathmatch. There is no Team Deathmatch in RO (Thank God).