Level Design Warning before whitelisting roundup

[Freshmeat]

I do not know how KEPT organizes their testing sessions, but would it be possible to give mappers a warning that testing is due in a few days? I tend to make a lot of small changes constantly, and would of course like to have my latest work approved instead of the version I made weeks ago.

I understand this might not be possible, especially if testing of maps is done on ad-hoc basis.

 

[ffjason]

I do not know how KEPT organizes their testing sessions, but would it be possible to give mappers a warning that testing is due in a few days? I tend to make a lot of small changes constantly, and would of course like to have my latest work approved instead of the version I made weeks ago.

I understand this might not be possible, especially if testing of maps is done on ad-hoc basis.

Just keep the whitelist link as the latest version and it will be tested.

It is done as and when we are free.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

and leaders like omar check that list like, at least 2 times a day, so whatever's on the list is typically what we eventually test when we have the time available.....usually weekends seem to be when most of us are around

 

[Olivier]

Just keep the whitelist link as the latest version and it will be tested.

That will be a nightmare if people update their maps everyday!!!
If you want to submit your map, we dont expect to have a newer version of it in the next few days. If people do so, a part of the team will have tested the wrog version which will leads in confusion. Just make sure your map is perfectly like you want it before submiting it please.

 

[driftwood]

I'm in understanding with Olivier's point on this.

Also ALWAYS change the filename by making it beta1, beta2, 3 etc. If it is a final release and you don't 'want' to change it to v2 etc, TOO BAD. Thats the consequence of not getting your map perfect first time

Having said that it would be nice to have some kind of heads up as to any sort of 'cut off day' that mappers need to get their submission in to have it ready for the white list. Some people might hold off on posting on the whitelist thread at first because they want to continue making improvements - but they still want to get in on time for the next whitelist update

 

[omarfw]

I do not know how KEPT organizes their testing sessions, but would it be possible to give mappers a warning that testing is due in a few days?

as much as we'd like to have regular sessions at a regular time every week, it's not possible. if this were a real job it would be a priority, but this is volunteer work so we have to work it in around our own schedules.

and driftwood is right, never replace an old version of a map with a new version of the same filename unless the changes are extremely minimal and last minute. as maps are transferred between storage and servers many times between the time they're added to the to-do list and the time they're added to the server, there is a lot of room for misplacement and mistakes. if there is no difference in the filename then we have no real way of knowing which version is newer and which is older.

and all mappers should use a v2, v3, v4 system. if someone makes two maps called KF-awesomemap-BETA-FIX-FIN and KF-awesomemap-FINAL-FIX how are we or TWI supposed to know which one is newer? We don't have the time to track down their threads and investigate which one was released first.

you will eventually run out of words to slap onto your map, whereas you will never run out of numbers

 

[Olivier]

as much as we'd like to have regular sessions at a regular time every week, it's not possible. if this were a real job it would be a priority, but this is volunteer work so we have to work it in around our own schedules.

And some of us are busy with college/university for tha moment.

 

[ffjason]

That will be a nightmare if people update their maps everyday!!!

Hehe - sorry i didn't mean that

Just make sure your map is perfectly like you want it before submiting it please.

That is what I mean by my comment

and all mappers should use a v2, v3, v4 system. if someone makes two maps called KF-awesomemap-BETA-FIX-FIN and KF-awesomemap-FINAL-FIX how are we or TWI supposed to know which one is newer? We don't have the time to track down their threads and investigate which one was released first.

you will eventually run out of words to slap onto your map, whereas you will never run out of numbers

It would be nice to see proper versioning so:
v0.* are beta versions
v1 is the first version
v1.* should be used for minor fixes
and v2 should be for a major change

However i don't think TWI allow . so maybe v1 v2 v3 etc will be better

 

[omarfw]

I wish people would stop submitting beta's for whitelisting

 

[dextronaut]

It would be nice to see proper versioning so:
v0.* are beta versions

However i don't think TWI allow . so maybe v1 v2 v3 etc will be better

i dont think beta's should ever be put on the whitelist

 

[Olivier]

i dont think beta's should ever be put on the whitelist

Damn right!

 

[gusone]

That's simple. TWI should not whitelist betas. Period. That cuts the work by at least 50% since only the final gets tested for whitelisting. Or even more if the said mapper releases multiple betas (how can you even have multiple betas anyway.... betas of betas of betas betas.. isn't that an alpha?). I'd be cruel to be kind and say no to beta whitelisting. That then encourages people to finish their maps and tighten them up for exploits so they can get whitelisting.

 

[Zetsumei]

the issue is that unless a map is whitelisted nobody will play it. And if nobody can play it you cannot get the information you need about gameplay that needs changing to make a map final.

 

[Olivier]

the issue is that unless a map is whitelisted nobody will play it. And if nobody can play it you cannot get the information you need about gameplay that needs changing to make a map final.

Thats why you should put a thread in the mapping forum and normally, you have friends to play KF with.

 

[ffjason]

i dont think beta's should ever be put on the whitelist

Agreed

 

[Freshmeat]

The problem is that no matter how long time you spend with your map, there is always something that pops up right after submission. When I submitted my recently rejected map, I thought I was done. However, after the rejection I see a lot of other things I want to improve as well. Thus, I am loath to say that a version is final until after whitelisting, and have kept a beta naming convention.

On the other hand, since you guys are doing the work, you get to decide how it is done. I am highly appreciative of the work you put into keeping the whitelist free from exploited and levelling maps, even if the latter has caused some controversy lately.

I think ffjasons naming scheme is good, and the dot issue can be avoided:
Beta: b1, b2, b...
Public release: v1
Fixes: v1a, v1b,...
Major changes: v2

I hope to get to v1 some day

 

[HaTeMe]

The problem is that no matter how long time you spend with your map, there is always something that pops up right after submission.

Yes, thats why I thought Id never name my maps as -Final, because a map is rly never a final. I simply use v1, v2, v3... etc. Something always comes up, either you think of something to improve/add or someone else finds something you need to fix and then youd end up with KF-Something-Final2 which is kinda silly.

Actually, I havent even posted any of my maps in the Final Release forums yet, even tho some of them are already on the whitelist. I just dont consider them as final until Im absolutely sure Im not going to work on the maps anymore (which most likely means Im about to stop playing KF).

 

[omarfw]

The problem is that no matter how long time you spend with your map, there is always something that pops up right after submission.

ideally we need to have an actual map testing team alongside the KEPT that tests maps for stuff other than exploits as they're released so mappers can get the REAL final versions submitted for whitelisting.

The KEPT isn't meant to get the kinks out of maps, but that's what we're ending up doing and it ends up delaying peoples map submissions from being whitelisted for quite a while since we operate based on the whitelisting update "schedule" and not on a more frequent basis.

aka a team that tested maps before they're submitted for whitelisting. at least, the ones that have threads made for them.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

in the old days of mapping, in KF and especially in RO, mappers found friends and friends of friends to get together and help them test their work while they were in beta stages. people not have friends anymore or are the games just that dead?