Gunslinger Perk - Yes or No?

[Blackhandsaint]

I keep seeing complaints about how the gunslinger perk would infringe on SS, but I think that can be pretty easily resolved with one or two modifications. I think the most effective means of achieving this would be by having the perk give bonus damage based on how close a target is. This way, gunslingers would be more effective at close range (where pistols are supposed to be good anyway) and not infringe on the role of the SS. Of course, this brings up the issue of moving into the territory of Support and Berserker, but I think that the play style of pistols would be different enough that those issues wouldn't come up much.

 

[OHsnapcojax]

Why add more, reduntant weapons if the perk can be balanced by moving current weaponry? Not only is it easier to do code-wise, but it actually balances the SS (or at least helps to do so).

Adding new weapons is at the same time extra work and a step back considering what has been though in this thread.

Wouldn't they need to add at least one more new weapon to sharpshooter, or even to a new perk anyway?

something tells me that ppl just want new guns and are finding any way possible to make that come true.

DUH!

 

[brphoenix]

Wouldn't they need to add at least one more new weapon to sharpshooter, or even to a new perk anyway?

Actually, they wouldn't. SS has five weapons as it is, while every other perk has a maximum of 3 weapons (not counting 'zerkers useless melee weapons nor the LAW).
What would be required is to change the weight of those weapons. Make crossbow 1 block lighter, M14 EBR one block heavier, and LAR one block lighter.

This way a SS can carry LAR and either M14 or Crossbow.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

yup there'd only need to be one new weapon for the gunslinger's teir2 or teir3 weapon to use along side the 9mm and handcannon. (i really like this mk23 that's been worked on and hope TW will pursue using with a gunslinger plerk). the SS would have the LAR, crossbow and EBR (which i hope will be tweeked to the m21/m25? instead), of course wieght should be adjusted so that yes, the SS could carry two weapons.

that's the great thing about this perk. nothing really needs to be added for it other than the class. no need for tons of new weapons, gameplay changes or additional features.

 

[dextronaut]

my only gripe is, when would one NEED to be a gunslinger? he has semi automatic weapons (revolver, 9mm, handcannon, mk23, etc), but what about the situations when hes completely swarmed? hes not a sharpshooter, so he wouldnt be far back sniping, and hes not a commando or zerker so he wouldnt be up front protecting the sharp from lesser threats. it seems like a gunslinger would be either overwhelmed, or using other perks weapons (like a bullpup).

i dont see the point of the gunslinger, or its usefulness in the game. even sharpshooters dont solely rely on their 9mm or handcannon - they are always secondary to the M14/crossbow.

 

[brphoenix]

my only gripe is, when would one NEED to be a gunslinger? he has semi automatic weapons (revolver, 9mm, handcannon, mk23, etc), but what about the situations when hes completely swarmed? hes not a sharpshooter, so he wouldnt be far back sniping, and hes not a commando or zerker so he wouldnt be up front protecting the sharp from lesser threats. it seems like a gunslinger would be either overwhelmed, or using other perks weapons (like a bullpup).

i dont see the point of the gunslinger, or its usefulness in the game. even sharpshooters dont solely rely on their 9mm or handcannon - they are always secondary to the M14/crossbow.

This has already been discussed.

Gunslinger is not a solo-able perk. Well, none of the perks are fully solo-able, but a Medic can go solo if he gets a crossbow and a katana, and so does the 'zerker. But I digress.
The gunslinger would represent an assistant, pretty much like the medic or support to some extent, but he'd provide full bellical assistance. Medic has "health care" and can take down lesser specimens with MP7. Support can weld doors and take short-range specimens down. Gunslinger can take down almost any kind of zed that would provide a threat to his "partner", though less effitiently than the perks meant to do so.
He can spray his 9mm and take down lower-level specimens (clots, crawlers, stalkers) but a Commando and a Firebug will outshine him. He can use his handcannons to take down mid-level zeds, but a support will do so better than him. He can take down stronger zeds at a distance, but a lot slower than a sharpshooter.
What the other perks lack, is this versatility. This power to adapt to what's in front of him. Surrounded by clots? Draw dual 9mm, and fire away. A group of bloats and sirens is approaching? Use your handcannons. FP coming, and the nearest SS is too far away? Use your revolver; aim carefully, and you may survive.

Though, he can't do this on his own. He has to be protecting someone, to cover his back, fill in the gaps between range and zed difficulty, so both get a better chance to survive.

 

[dextronaut]

Gunslinger is not a solo-able perk.

Surrounded by clots? Draw dual 9mm, and fire away. A group of bloats and sirens is approaching? Use your handcannons. FP coming, and the nearest SS is too far away? Use your revolver; aim carefully, and you may survive.

sounds pretty soloable in the hands of someone who is at least somewhat competent in KF. commando for me is very soloable in my hands.

Though, he can't do this on his own. He has to be protecting someone, to cover his back, fill in the gaps between range and zed difficulty, so both get a better chance to survive.

i think it is easier to survive alone than it is with someone else for the simple reason that human error/carelessness goes against trust. meaning, i cant trust someone to watch my back when i know that they might slip up. but then again, id feel just as silly, solo relying on handguns.

this perk is a cool idea, i just see it as being another demo.

 

[brphoenix]

sounds pretty soloable in the hands of someone who is at least somewhat competent in KF. commando for me is very soloable in my hands.

Commando might be solo-able on normal, but I dare you to kill a FP on 6-man suicidal without needing 100 armor.

While this perk may be able to kill everyone, other perks are far more effective in killing the zeds they were made to kill. A commando has a lot more crowd-control potential than a gunsliger, but both have this capacity.

i think it is easier to survive alone than it is with someone else for the simple reason that human error/carelessness goes against trust. meaning, i cant trust someone to watch my back when i know that they might slip up. but then again, id feel just as silly, solo relying on handguns.

Not on suicidal. At least, that's how I feel. You need teamwork (at least a little, anyways) to survive. The difference is, do you want to survive, or do you want to live? Alittle teamwork will have you surviving (barely) waves, but with decent teamwork, you can get past waves without (almost) any scratch.

this perk is a cool idea, i just see it as being another demo.

I don't get it D:

 

[dextronaut]

Commando might be solo-able on normal, but I dare you to kill a FP on 6-man suicidal without needing 100 armor.

wait, what?! you give a really easy example and then a really extreme example?! thats like, "i can ride just about any trail".... then the other guy replies, "OH YEH?! so you should be able to ride up a 90 degree angle while hamsters chew on your nuts and lava spews in your face!"

While this perk may be able to kill everyone, other perks are far more effective in killing the zeds they were made to kill.

same goes for demo, it can kill, but its not as effective, its more of a novelty. how great has demo been received by the community? not very well.

Not on suicidal. At least, that's how I feel. You need teamwork (at least a little, anyways) to survive. The difference is, do you want to survive, or do you want to live?

*searches for yoda picture* do or do not, there is no try.

 

[brphoenix]

wait, what?! you give a really easy example and then a really extreme example?! thats like, "i can ride just about any trail".... then the other guy replies, "OH YEH?! so you should be able to ride up a 90 degree angle while hamsters chew on your nuts and lava spews in your face!"

It's true nonetheless. Anyone with decent skills can solo on normal with any perk (except firebug). But suicidal is where the real fun resides in. Well, for most people anyways.

same goes for demo, it can kill, but its not as effective, its more of a novelty. how great has demo been received by the community? not very well.

Demo's un-effectiveness is mainly due to short-ranged maps (no explosions) and big cloud of smoke after explosions. It has enough destructive power to solo, but those flaws make it very difficult.

*searches for yoda picture* do or do not, there is no try.

 

[dextronaut]

It's true nonetheless. Anyone with decent skills can solo on normal with any perk (except firebug). But suicidal is where the real fun resides in. Well, for most people anyways.

Demo's un-effectiveness is mainly due to short-ranged maps (no explosions) and big cloud of smoke after explosions. It has enough destructive power to solo, but those flaws make it very difficult.

demo isnt effective by itself because youd need to rely on another perks weapon to make it thru. unless the demo does a total pipebomb spam making him unreachable. its not due to the short ranged maps, or the smoke after explosions.

PS: saying that firebug cant solo on normal shows just how green you are.

PPS: sorry but i just dont think the gunslinger is needed. the sharpshooter's benefits with pistols should remain.

 

[brphoenix]

demo isnt effective by itself because youd need to rely on another perks weapon to make it thru. unless the demo does a total pipebomb spam making him unreachable. its not due to the short ranged maps, or the smoke after explosions.

PS: saying that firebug cant solo on normal shows just how green you are.

PPS: sorry but i just dont think the gunslinger is needed. the sharpshooter's benefits with pistols should remain.

I'm saying he can't solo because he can't kill FPs decently. And to go solo, you have to be able to kill everything.

All of these can-or-can't-solo are solely based on the perks own weaponry. But still, I doubt having a katana can save your *** when facing a FP.

 

[dextronaut]

I'm saying he can't solo because he can't kill FPs decently.

All of these can-or-can't-solo are solely based on the perks own weaponry. But still, I doubt having a katana can save your *** when facing a FP.

a firebug winning against a FP is not possible on normal? dude, sorry but, its VERY possible! BiC!

 

[Undedd Jester]

I'm saying he can't solo because he can't kill FPs decently. And to go solo, you have to be able to kill everything.

All of these can-or-can't-solo are solely based on the perks own weaponry. But still, I doubt having a katana can save your *** when facing a FP.

[url]http://www.xfire.com/profile/undeddjester/screenshots/kllngfloor/?view#92199623[/URL]

Ahem

Although to be fair I did have a katana for husks and a pipe bomb to soften up the fleshies, but still

 

[dextronaut]

Although to be fair I did have a katana for husks and a pipe bomb to soften up the fleshies, but still

thats what i was talking about earlier. the gunslinger would be just like another demo or firebug, theres no reason a firebug should have to use other perks weapons in order to win. its all in the players ability to play the perk. if you are a firebug but you have to use other weapons to win, that perk is not for you. the gunslinger just wouldnt be popular or worthwhile. like the demo, of course ppl are going to be like, "yeh pipebombs and nade launchers!!!!", but when it comes down to it, its another broken perk for people to complain about on here.

 

[brphoenix]

a firebug winning against a FP is not possible on normal? dude, sorry but, its VERY possible! BiC!

It may be possible, but requires a LOT of skill. And 100 hp, 100 armor, and a good hiding spot, and no other zeds on the way.

But that's besides the point.

 

[brphoenix]

thats what i was talking about earlier. the gunslinger would be just like another demo or firebug, theres no reason a firebug should have to use other perks weapons in order to win. its all in the players ability to play the perk. if you are a firebug but you have to use other weapons to win, that perk is not for you. the gunslinger just wouldnt be popular or worthwhile. like the demo, of course ppl are going to be like, "yeh pipebombs and nade launchers!!!!", but when it comes down to it, its another broken perk for people to complain about on here.

The way it is now, it's very hard for a player to survive using only the weapons available to its own perk. I'd like to see you killing a FP with only your katana on 6-man suicidal.

And jester, while that pic is proof of your awesome leet skills (no sarcasm, really, you rock!) there's a huge difference when you go one-man suicidal, and 6-men suicidal.

Numbers prove everything, so here they go.

Fleshpound's base health: 1500
Health added per player: 375
Suicidal level health multiplier: 1.75
Players:1 6

Fleshpound's health formula

(1500+375*1 (6))*1.75 = 3281.25 (6562.5)

As you can see, its health doubles. Can you honestly believe you can kill a FP alone now?
Also, remember that almost every specimen has health increase.

 

[Undedd Jester]

Yes... I would just need 2 poipe bombs instead of 1

Nah seriously the Firebug has never been a class that could solo FP's, and to be honest, is shouldn't be able to. My point was more that the firebug isn't the piece of useless everyone accuses it of being

Obviously I can kill a husk without using a Katana, it just takes too long when there is other ****e looming over the horizon to munch on your succulent nipples.

... although I still think a high damage blowtorch would be a perfect compliment to the FB, not overly powerful, lightweight, allowing him to carry both, but does more DPS for sustained fire, the bug could ignite things to weaken them (and crisp them) then finish them off with a quick blast of blue flame heat

Would keep those pesky gorefasts in their place at least, since they are the things that usually cause me issue tackling the husk

Anyway in regards to the Gunslinger - Naturally any help against a Fleshpound, I would appreciate

 

[OHsnapcojax]

wait, what?! you give a really easy example and then a really extreme example?! thats like, "i can ride just about any trail".... then the other guy replies, "OH YEH?! so you should be able to ride up a 90 degree angle while hamsters chew on your nuts and lava spews in your face!"

Hahahaha, that just made my whole day.

But still, I doubt having a katana can save your *** when facing a FP.

It definitely can. As long as you know what you're doing. I know first hand.

 

[anthracy]

Honestly, I don't see the reason for the gunslinger perk as described here. However, I am all for it because I want to see tripwire's interpretation of it.