Tactics What do commandos do when a scrake/FP appears?

[Undedd Jester]

Scrake, Fleshpound, Husk and maybe Siren from my experience) cannot be decapitated by simply depleting their head HP,

1 moot point I think they do all have this principle, on Suicidal 6 man as a medic with a katana I have found constant alt fire to a Scrakes head actually decapitates them like normal specimens. Did this multiple times at the back of the caves in Manor. I'd assume it is mathematically possible for a fleshpound, but damned unlikely

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/b75b3e6ed2dc6e92e078446ab115c17048e0c9c3.png

i can confirm what temstar is saying, did it yesterday a few times...on scrakes and fp's.

one peculiar thing i saw yesterday when using LAW on scrakes is that they displayed a stun animation...similar to the husks one, can anyone confirm this?

i saw it a few times after hitting them with a LAW shot or 2.

And yes it does, I've done it frequently as a Demoman

 

[TheHateMaster]

what difficulty are you playing, and with how many players?

SCAR destroys scrakes if you get consistent headshots, like yano....proper headshots with the sound that plays

Hmmm, the difficulty in which specimens have more hp than in Normal, and more hp than in Hard.....

Oh, Suicidal.

That's the whole point of the discussion isn't it?

As so many of you have "cleverly" pointed out, a Scrake dies easily on lower level difficulties to the SCAR. News Flash: Just about everything dies easily on the lower level difficulties, rendering your "strategies" and "tactics" completely irrelevant.

So obviously if a Commando has huge trouble with Scrakes it would follow that he is NOT playing on the lower level difficulties.

Guy A: "Gorefasts kill you so fast on Suicidal"
Guy B: "Just buy armour.....Gorefasts seldom trouble me when I'm playing Normal."

Do you get it now? Your arguments are irrelevant!!!

Again, why? Because I've play-tested them. Last guy surviving, way too many ZEDs left, 5 man Suicidal game. I decide I might as well give up, and start firing at the scrake. The "thud" sound comes out about 8 times, several hit his body, and he's not even at half hp. I backpedal and fire another half a clip on semi-auto, and decap him at point blank after he takes me to red-blinking hp. My lvl 6 Commando already has the highest SCAR dmg currently possible so I can seriously tell you for sure that it will not work in a Suicidal game. Regardless of how successful you've been so far on Normal/Hard.

 

[TheHateMaster]

The theory goes "if a specimen have less than 50% hp and takes a shot to the head that does more damage than 15% of its total HP, then it will be decapitated"

Now the above may be true, but obviously there are cases where a decapitation occurs without these condition. 9mm is fully capable of decapitating clot and bloats with a single hit to the head from full hp.

My theory is that all specimens have two sets of HP, head HP and total HP. Hitting them in the head will do damage to both their head HP and their total HP, where as body shots will only do damage to total HP.

For small specimens, there

 

[SMIFF]

Hmmm, the difficulty in which specimens have more hp than in Normal, and more hp than in Hard.....

Oh, Suicidal.

That's the whole point of the discussion isn't it?

As so many of you have "cleverly" pointed out, a Scrake dies easily on lower level difficulties to the SCAR. News Flash: Just about everything dies easily on the lower level difficulties, rendering your "strategies" and "tactics" completely irrelevant.

So obviously if a Commando has huge trouble with Scrakes it would follow that he is NOT playing on the lower level difficulties.

Guy A: "Gorefasts kill you so fast on Suicidal"
Guy B: "Just buy armour.....Gorefasts seldom trouble me when I'm playing Normal."

Do you get it now? Your arguments are irrelevant!!!

Again, why? Because I've play-tested them. Last guy surviving, way too many ZEDs left, 5 man Suicidal game. I decide I might as well give up, and start firing at the scrake. The "thud" sound comes out about 8 times, several hit his body, and he's not even at half hp. I backpedal and fire another half a clip on semi-auto, and decap him at point blank after he takes me to red-blinking hp. My lvl 6 Commando already has the highest SCAR dmg currently possible so I can seriously tell you for sure that it will not work in a Suicidal game. Regardless of how successful you've been so far on Normal/Hard.

well that was a bit nasty, i was merely asking you a question...i wasnt insulting you or anything, and no it doesnt obviously mean that your playing on suicidal if your having trouble downing scrakes, you could just be a terrible player or something.

 

[Temstar]

Crossbow does not kill fleshpound in 1 shot, at least not on suicidal. Hence my reason to suggest that there is a <50% requirement for decapitation. Or else if we assume the only requirement to decapitate is doing X amount of damage to the head, then crossbow should 1 shot decapitate FP regardless of difficulty level, given the kind of damage it does.

 

[smilin]

well that was a bit nasty, i was merely asking you a question...i wasnt insulting you or anything, and no it doesnt obviously mean that your playing on suicidal if your having trouble downing scrakes, you could just be a terrible player or something.

I think his frustration is not directed at you but the repetition in this particular argument.

I think we can probably just stick with discussing 6-man hard difficulty because:

1. There isn't much strategy on solo beginner/normal...just put a clip in their head.
2. Suicidal 6-man is also a relatively moot argument (if your team is leaving your commando to kill skrake/fp then it will fail)

What I usually see for skrakes (I'm a 6 commando usually on a hard 6man):
use about 1/2 to 3/4 of a SCAR magazine in single-shot on the skrakes head. This should lower his health but not enrage him. Stop and reload, flip to full auto then the next full clip should drop him.

If it does not then he's *really* close so just flip to any other weapon (ak?) and finish it off with head or body shots (as he's in your face by now).

With just a bit of calm you should be able to drop a skrake in 1.5 clips without taking damage.

For FP you're going to need 3 mixed magazines so here's how to do it with the least loss of ear and skin pieces:
1. Start with your AK at the ready and your SCAR fully loaded.
2. Chuck a couple grenades and while the fuses are burning open fire full auto AK to the head.
3. The AK will enrage him about 1/2 through the clip and about the time the grenades go off. Finish unloading the AK into his head but stop before your reload animation kicks in.
4. Switch to the SCAR, zoom, full auto to the head until you are empty.
5. Backpedal during the SCAR reload (he's likely on top of you now).
6. Use the close range to fire from the hip. The 2nd SCAR clip should drop him.

Using this seqence you've put 2 SCAR clips, 1 AK clip, and a pair of grenades into him and have taken one burst of damage in retaliation. Depending on initial range you should be fully healthy or at worst 75% health with 50% armor lost.

 

[Nanostrike]

ANYONE who says the Commando is good at taking down Scrakes or FPs, even with the SCAR, is either talking about playing on Normal or doesn't know what they're talking about.

A Scrake on Hard can take more than an entire clip of AK and SCAR to the face in a 6-player game and keep coming. And an FP takes no less than 3 1/2 clips of SCAR ammo. Yes, you CAN kill them in theory, but you'll be taking vicious hits and wasting much-needed ammo.

I feel sorry for Supports even more, though. On Hard+, they'll find it near-impossible to down a Scrake/FP without taking a hit, and if they CAN do so, it's only by expending a ton of their precious AA12 ammo! Support ammo problems start appearing on Hard, but they really, really show up in Suicidal...

 

[[MtK]StenO]

only SS are meant to be able to take down Scrakes and FPs in a suicidal 6-man game without taking any damage or too much trouble so the fact that support and every other class would have trouble isn't surprising. Demos can do it as well, but need more setup, space, and it's not as easy.

 

[[MtK]StenO]

Yes, support does have pretty big ammo problems. If you're the one on the front lines then your AA12 and hunting rifle/shotgun ammo will be very low. You just need to know when to fire and when to let your teammates in the back do the killing.

 

[Oldih]

ANYONE who says the Commando is good at taking down Scrakes or FPs, even with the SCAR, is either talking about playing on Normal or doesn't know what they're talking about.

Agreed. Scarkes on hard are doable if you have enough distance between you and him but that's about it, unless you have a katana but it's Murphy's law in KF that everytime you deal with a scarke while having a katana someone comes and shoots it right before it dies.

As for the scenario where FP comes and there are no sharps around, they're dead or simply too thick to understand you need help, only thing you can do is probably just toss few grenades, run for it and full auto-fire on FP at the same time and hope you don't get completely bumraped.

 

[SMIFF]

ANYONE who says the Commando is good at taking down Scrakes or FPs, even with the SCAR, is either talking about playing on Normal or doesn't know what they're talking about.

A Scrake on Hard can take more than an entire clip of AK and SCAR to the face in a 6-player game and keep coming. And an FP takes no less than 3 1/2 clips of SCAR ammo. Yes, you CAN kill them in theory, but you'll be taking vicious hits and wasting much-needed ammo.

I feel sorry for Supports even more, though. On Hard+, they'll find it near-impossible to down a Scrake/FP without taking a hit, and if they CAN do so, it's only by expending a ton of their precious AA12 ammo! Support ammo problems start appearing on Hard, but they really, really show up in Suicidal...

I obliterate fp's and scrakes on hard with support spec....

 

[Marls]

You guys will probably laugh, but as a commadno on a scrake, I slighty soften it up then hack it to death with a Katana...... Maybe its because I know what I am doing. Ima skilled Beserker afterall <.<

Fleshies.... well thats another ball game. You run ? they rage, you open fire ? they rage. You either call for a sharpy or for everyone to prepare to open fire on it at once. No matter how powerful the FNSCAR is, hes going to take you down while your reloading. Unless hes been damaged previously.

Anyway thats my opinions

 

[-=AG=- Avery]

Be a medic with an Xbow don't have to worry about anything.

 

[Nanostrike]

I obliterate fp's and scrakes on hard with support spec....

Okay...but, like I said...

Support ammo problems start appearing on Hard, but they really, really show up in Suicidal...

You can take 'em down easy on Hard if you have a good team backing you up. But on Suicidal, they'll run right through your shotgun barrage and hit you...

 

[TheHateMaster]

well that was a bit nasty, i was merely asking you a question...i wasnt insulting you or anything, and no it doesnt obviously mean that your playing on suicidal if your having trouble downing scrakes, you could just be a terrible player or something.

I wasn't trying to be nasty, although it was highly frustrating for me when some guy was like "oh what difficulty are you playing on" as if I weren't qualified to speak on the subject, AND the context heavily implied nothing except a 6-man Suicidal setting, rendering that question highly irrelevant and patronising.

This was made a lot worse by numerous people parroting that it was easy/comfortable to take FPs/Scrakes as a Commando, at which point, being an experienced and pretty good player, I must interject and call bulls**t.

It is POSSIBLE, but definitely not comfortable; and if your commando is busy katana-ing the Scrake, that makes one less SCAR picking off crawlers and gores, and that could make things a whole lot worse depending on team composition/defensive location.

And for the Support Specs who're "easily downing FPs" with AA12 and grenades.......

Support's ammo problems (especially on Suicidal) are well-documented; and their cashflow problems even more so. If you have money to buy grenades you're doing something wrong. You're paying 40 pounds for the same/inferior?? dmg as opposed to a 4 pound grenade coming from the m32, with something of a 3 second delay which ZEDs cleverly avoid.

In my opinion, grenades really need a major buff and/or price reduction to make them actually feasible. As of now they're more of a burden than a boon by stopping me from using the "auto-fill ammo" feature, and taking up "G" on my keyboard.

 

[!_Zombie_!]

ANYONE who says the Commando is good at taking down Scrakes or FPs, even with the SCAR, is either talking about playing on Normal or doesn't know what they're talking about.

A Scrake on Hard can take more than an entire clip of AK and SCAR to the face in a 6-player game and keep coming. And an FP takes no less than 3 1/2 clips of SCAR ammo. Yes, you CAN kill them in theory, but you'll be taking vicious hits and wasting much-needed ammo.

I feel sorry for Supports even more, though. On Hard+, they'll find it near-impossible to down a Scrake/FP without taking a hit, and if they CAN do so, it's only by expending a ton of their precious AA12 ammo! Support ammo problems start appearing on Hard, but they really, really show up in Suicidal...

Well, if you're willing to do it you can carry the Hunting Shotgun/AA12 as a combo. On suicidal 6 man I can take down a Scrake and FP without taking damage.

FP:
-Get semi-close, fire both barrels of HS
-While he's doing his "rage" animation pull out the AA12
-Unload about 3/4 of drum into upper torso area
-FP dies and you're safe

The Scrake is a different story but basically you weaken him a bit by firing a few HS shots into him at a distance then pulling the AA12 on him.

As for playing Commando I'm rank 4, and I let Sharps deal with FPs. Scrakes if I need to deal with it I can without taking damage. On hard+ switch to semi-auto, fire into his head with most of the clip, check his health if he hasn't raged yet, if it's around or below half switch to auto and kill him with short bursts to the head.

 

[Azukki]

I would recommend only unloading on an FP if there are others helping you. If he makes it to his target and hits them, stop firing. Save your fire until he rages again, giving the team time to prepare, ensuring that you can kill him before he hits anyone again. It's usually the commandos that screw this up.

On 6 man Hard, you can kill a Scrake by yourself if you take him down to ~%50 health, (right before causing rage) reload, and unload on him, with the SCAR. But if there are others around and you try this, they'll probably rage him right when you start reloading, resulting in you taking a few hits.

So when you're around the others, it's better to reload when he's at about 65%, and then rely on them to contribute. You can generally rely on teammates to be trigger happy more than you can rely on them to be understanding of unstated strategies.

Suicidal Scrakes, if they haven't raged yet, get with the team and hope for the best. Start firing once it rages, or when everyone else opens fire on it.

 

[Bio666]

... On suicidal 6 man I can take down a Scrake and FP without taking damage.

FP:
-Get semi-close, fire both barrels of HS
-While he's doing his "rage" animation pull out the AA12
-Unload about 3/4 of drum into upper torso area
-FP dies and you're safe

The Scrake is a different story but basically you weaken him a bit by firing a few HS shots into him at a distance then pulling the AA12 on him.

The man talks like he knows how to play support...

 

[!_Zombie_!]

The man talks like he knows how to play support...

If you don't want to get mauled, you probably want to distance yourself. Experiment with distance, I've played it long enough to know how much spread is associated with the HS. I know it's got a bad spread to it but considering you can't carry all 3 shotguns and you have to sacrifice carrying the HS instead of the Nilla' Shotty you have to make some kind of compromise when dealing with certain enemies.

Also my definitions of semi-close and close seem to be different, take this into account as well.

Semi-close is what I consider not right up against the enemy, but about 5 or so feet away from them, "close" is Berserker close. and "distance" in itself can mean the same thing.

Thanks for the advice though, I'm glad to see that you didn't just rail into calling other players skill into question.

 

[Temstar]

First off, there's no such thing as head hp being seperate from specimen hp.

//KFChar.ZombieFleshPound
HealthMax=1500.000000
Health=1500
PlayerCountHealthScale=0.250000
HeadHealth=700.000000
PlayerNumHeadHealthScale=0.250000
BlockDamageReduction=0.400000 //hurrhurr *Don't ask me^^*

//KFChar.ZombieScrake
HealthMax=1000.000000
Health=1000
PlayerCountHealthScale=0.500000
HeadHealth=650.000000
PlayerNumHeadHealthScale=0.250000