The issue never occured in the mod as in the mod you pretty much never ran out of reinforcements at least not in the same way as you can in RO:OST.
If you played a few times at a friend and a bit at home. How many times have you played koningsplatz at a full server?
I don't normally count how often I play a map or how long I play in general, but I have played the map yesterday a couple of times. Reinforcements ran out in two different rounds, however I was keeping an eye on what was going on and a good chunk of my team got killed off in both cases by a couple of well aimed Arty while they were holding or capping a cap zone, and my tank commander didn't seem to know how to take out the other tank even while I kept us angled to him.... you can only do so much.
Its not about gameplay style, but its about what i see people do during public games.
To me, both mean exactly the same thing.
Its a bit weird you accuse me of making up the bad teamwork that i see on public servers and public players not really caring for the team pool of reinforcements, when you hardly played the game.
If you want to keep a decent debate with me, you best stick to what was said and not imagine things I said up. I never said you made any of these claims up about how some play, but you generalize as if every other player except yourself plays like this and I believe you also exaggerate the number of people playing as you claim they do.
What you are making up though, that I know is a fact, is your reference to running out of reinforcements in the Mod. You say it simply didn't happen, and I know I and many others here who played since then can tell you otherwise.
Oh, and a polite reminder, I do not require your judgement of how often or how long I play a game compared to yourself, nor would it make any bit of difference in my claims. Yesterday was my first "Full Day" of having the game and when I could play it, all but two rounds I was leading my team, I had the highest score, I capped the most objectives and I took commander class and told people what to do...... Pretty good for someone who "Hardly Plays the Game" and only having the full version game for around 24 hours and on several maps I never played before and just starting to figure out my way around.
I think I know a thing or two about what I am talking about.
The difference is that I stick to the facts, while you use extreme case examples that are obviously exaggerated to help support your own claims and then attack other people's credibility who point out the flaws in your argument by trying to compare how often someone plays the game compared to you, which is irrelevant to the topic at hand and is only a mere attempt at distracting from the real issues.
And there's a bit of hypocracy in your post on how you talk about me claiming you are making things up on the current game play (which I didn't, I merely think you are exaggerating to suit a biased agenda) and yet try and flat out tell me and others that running out of reinforcements in the Mod era "Just didn't happen" and if you truly think it never happened, then you obviously must be lying about how often you played the mod, because although I didn't play the mod 3 hours a day, every single day like you have since 2.0, I had countless matches that ran out of reinforcements all the time.... some maps more then others.
So if you are lying about reinforcements in the mod, which I know you are based on first hand experience, how do I not know you are exaggerating the amount of players in the new game who don't play as you described they should (Which I have yet to see.)
I have seen a few obviously new players getting slaughtered over and over, but that's a given in any game, and there may be one or two dumbwads who do as you describe, but it's not the Black Plague of RO in that everybody or at least 90% of the players do as you describe.
And I do not believe your reinforcement method would solve any of these problems.... all it would do is benefit yourself because then you only have to focus on how often you die, thus you no longer think like a team mate and help look after other members, because their deaths no longer have any effect on you or the rest of your team, unless you want to "Share" your lives with other team members, which you might do once every blue moon, but I doubt very many others would want to.
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The one thing I have noticed so far playing the full version is that the majority of the maps I have played, nobody selected the commander classes.... thus nobody is giving out orders, nobody is setting rally points, nobody is selecting decent arty positions...... AKA: no co-ordination at all.
That's the problem, and that has always been the problem since the mod days...... if you do not have at least one person on your team trying to organize what the heck to do, then everybody usually goes off and does their own thing.
Every single time I took the command class and started giving out commands, setting rally points, telling my team mates when something is being capped and how much is left, or how many enemies are nearby, etc. etc...... almost always the majority of the players start grouping together, attacking together, helping one another out, going when they need to go and holding back when they need to hold back.
Sometimes you gotta make manual messages towards your team mates like "Let's Go People!" "We just need a couple more to back us up" etc..... then usually when your team mates know what's going on near them, they can think to themselves "Well heck the cap zone is just to the right of me, I might as well just step in and continue what I am doing" or "well he's just in that building over there and I can flank the guys who got him pinned."
The more information you give your team, the more they are aware of what's around them, where the action is and the more you help them out, the easier it is for them to help you and take the map...... and if you give them the command and they see you running to where you commanded to go, usually they will follow.
You don't need to try and restrict how many times they respawn individually or punish them in other ways.... all you need to do is take the command slot that's already there and do the job.
All the tools are already out there to solve the problems you mentioned, you just need to know which tools to use and how.
I can only agree with Zetsumei in terms of teamwork.
Teamwork is horrible in RO:Ost, it still may be way better than in most other online shooters, but it still sucks!
Try playing a CA map like Arad as Infantry, 90% of the time you wont have a transport at the spawn as one guy took it and drove away alone...
In my previous post to this on, I mentioned a possible reason why the team work is crap and a possible solution that seems to work for me quite well.
And I played Arad a few times last night too. I didn't have too much of a problem with not having any vehicles to use at spawn, but then again there were only about 25 players on at the time.
But the vehicles are held there for a good number of seconds to wait for other team mates.... exactly how long do you expect your team mates to hang around for you to spawn? Or should they wait until they see you get killed and then wait some more until you spawn?
The thing is, usually that person was killed in an area that is being capped or time is limited on stopping the enemy where you were killed, you don't hear any team mates around you coming to hop aboard, so you stop wasting time dilly dallying around spawn and you rush off to help the rest of your team at the front lines.
If I see team mates coming to my vehicle, I stop/slow down so they can climb aboard, but I'm not going to sit around wasting time and once that vehicle is allowed to move, it's going.
And I'd expect other players to act the same way.... If I don't spawn in time to catch up to a vehicle and there's none around.... oh well, them's the breaks, start walking.
I think if anything needs to be changed, I think any map that is set on a server for 50 players should have more reinforcements overall and more vehicles at spawn, cuz by what I have seen so far in the game, it feels like the problems with reinforcements and vehicle amounts were originally geared for 32 player maps, not 50, thus there's hardly any vehicles and you run out of reinforcements quicker..... esspecially when you have more boots on the ground who get killed by some well placed arty..... you could have a dozen players die in just a few second in a 50 player map and that'll speed up the drop in reinforcements overall compared to the old 32 player mod maps with the same/similar reinforcement amounts.
It's got more to do with math and map design then it does about player's playing abilities.
You first have to diagnose the problem accurately before you can come up with a practical solution..... and I believe the problem overall has been the increase from 32 to 50 player servers..... Think about it... do you guys honestly believe the playing style has changed so much from the mod days to the current full game version? I haven't seen much difference at all.
So what is the most logical reason why reinforcements drop so much faster then in the mod?
Because you have much more then 32 players playing on the map at one time, you now have 50, which means there are more people that can be killed at one time, which means your reinforcements drop faster.
It's as simple as that.
And if you want your players to play better and work more as a team, pick the commander class and take charge.... otherwise you have no reason to complain how other's play if you don't want to take the responsibility of being Commander.
Either reduce the server player count back to 32, or take charge of your team and give them direction.... .or do both, and I bet you you will see a huge improvement.
