Beserker Melee Damage Reduction

[Impagliazzo]

Or Zerkers could just armor-tank like medics against ONLY physical damage.

And they could body-tank a little more physical damage too.

That way a Zerker could be the one to tank the FP sometimes, it would be even better than the medic.

 

[TheHateMaster]

If you can block with the weapon and the weapon breaks, theoretically you won't have anything to attack with. It's much harder than you think to throw katanas around on the floor, because anyone who walks near it will pick it up by accident.

Perhaps some form of compromise, like changing katana's alt fire to a parry that reduces physical damage by half? You'd have to sacrifice attacking to parry, but your weapon doesn't go so far as to "break".

 

[HaTeMe]

If you can block with the weapon and the weapon breaks, theoretically you won't have anything to attack with. It's much harder than you think to throw katanas around on the floor, because anyone who walks near it will pick it up by accident.

YES, Ive done this with flamethrowers (throwing them on ground to be used when I ran out of ammo), and theres ALWAYS some noob who picks them up and sells them the next time shop opens -_______-. I even saw this berserker with a katana picking one up from my "stash" and selling it even tho he clearly didnt need the money (had full armor and wasnt using anything else but his katana during the game).

Sometimes theres a friendly player who is willing to carry the flamerthrower for me but thats kinda unpratical because we often get driven apart from each other so how am I supposed to catch him up with the flamerthrower while being chased by a horde of zeds. Not to mention to danger of of loosing my flamer when my friend dies ><.

All that applies to a breakable katana too. It just wouldnt work out simply by dropping spare weapons on ground and/or giving them to your teammates unless you have a great and trustworthy team.

"Perhaps some form of compromise, like changing katana's alt fire to a parry that reduces physical damage by half? You'd have to sacrifice attacking to parry, but your weapon doesn't go so far as to break" - totally agreed

 

[ScarFace]

YES, Ive done this with flamethrowers (throwing them on ground to be used when I ran out of ammo), and theres ALWAYS some noob who picks them up and sells them the next time shop opens -_______-. I even saw this berserker with a katana picking one up from my "stash" and selling it even tho he clearly didnt need the money (had full armor and wasnt using anything else but his katana during the game).

Sometimes theres a friendly player who is willing to carry the flamerthrower for me but thats kinda unpratical because we often get driven apart from each other so how am I supposed to catch him up with the flamerthrower while being chased by a horde of zeds. Not to mention to danger of of loosing my flamer when my friend dies ><.

All that applies to a breakable katana too. It just wouldnt work out simply by dropping spare weapons on ground and/or giving them to your teammates unless you have a great and trustworthy team.

"Perhaps some form of compromise, like changing katana's alt fire to a parry that reduces physical damage by half? You'd have to sacrifice attacking to parry, but your weapon doesn't go so far as to break" - totally agreed

On public servers this could be a problem but if your playing with friends it certainly wouldn't be.

Plus I doubt that many people are stealing your flamethrowers as they weigh 10 blocks and not too many people have 10 blocks of weight free.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Also, I believe there should be a chance to completely dodge attacks. Maybe 5% per level gained would be fair. As it is now, beserkers can not take on fleshpounders on suicidal with a full party. One or two smacks and you are dead. This pretty much makes the beserker useless to the party at that point. Please feel free to add your opinions. Thanks.

your implying zerkers on suicidal SHOULD be able to take on a FP solo? ... ... thread over, this is just another @$%&ing pointless thread.

welcome to the forums, by the way...

 

[ANTHEM]

Alright guys, having been a Medic pretty much all the time, and being very skilled at that, I've been in some tight situations. Recently, I've been carrying a Katana around with me to see if that helped me in those little spots. It helped so much to the point that I went from 1.5-3 from not even playing zerk. After dabbling around with Berserker, I understand the outrage. It is definitely playable, but it needs some tune-ups.

As for block - if there were such a thing, it should be for gorefasts only.

You know you can't block a chainsaw, or giant, spiked, rotating... fleshpound arms. It's unrealistic. However - this may sound a bit outrageous, but hear me out and take the idea seriously please...

For Fleshpounds, (yes, it is spelled Fleshpounds, not Fleshpounders...) I think it would be a good idea to give Berserkers a special skill against them.

My ideas -

Being able to break the light on the front, either taking away their ability to rage, or putting them in a constant rage with lowered damage output, and greatly increased damage taken.

Or Berserkers could be able to 'jam' the arms on a fleshpound, making them unable to grind their hand-like devices, and only able to swing, greatly lowering damage output, and removing their rage ability.

Now, I don't know if this should 'break' the weapon, completely remove it from the users' inventory, or drop it when the Fleshpound dies, but I think the best way for it to happen would be for the Berserker to have to stand there with it shoved in the arm, forcing the fleshpound to focus on initiating the 'grinding' motion its arm performs, thus distracting it. However, if the Berserker is unable to either hold down the attack button, or alt-fire, or do something else, it'll break the weapon and the Berserker is right there. If it doesn't break, then it gives everyone else time to unload ammunition into the thing while the Berserker saves the day.

This would also make the Berserker have to pay for weapon repairs. Now, I'm not saying that the weapon should wear down over time, but every block/jam should cost a bit. Weapons DO wear down a bit after awhile. Especially after being in a grinder. If the weapon breaks, it becomes either unusable or extremely weak.

For scrakes, they could have the same issue, but jam the weapon through the engine area, removing the ability of the chainsaw to operate while stunning the scrake. It's almost like giving the ability of a 'clot grab' to the berserker, but to the bigger Zeds. Another possibility would be for a Berserker to have the ability to wreck the chainsaw, removing the ability of the scrake to cut, just giving it a bludgeoning ability, which is drastically weaker and not continuous, like one of the scrake's current abilities.

What do you think of that stuff, guys?

 

[Azukki]

Again, another kid with an online ego problem. Gotta say "dumb" rather than "I don't agree" and then explain why. People have no respect these days and think being rude online makes them superior. Get a life kid.
[...]
manual blocking

I was saying your idea was dumb, not you. I don't see where you get the idea that I believe myself to be superior. You seem awfully eager to talk down to me though. "Get a life kid." I suppose that makes you feel superior?
I think we're equal individuals, but I thought you had a bad idea in this case, so I honestly told you how bad it is. I expect the same from you. If I've got a ridiculous suggestion, please do tell me how awful it is and why.

I was saying the idea was dumb because it really is a terribly misfitting concept. It feels out of place even in a realtime rpg, and this is an action game, so it's completely out of its element. The concept would be great for a turn based rpg, but an action fps zombie shoot 'em up with a touch of rpg is not at all the place for it, and suggesting to put it there is dumb. If I had politely stated I didn't agree, it wouldn't have accurately expressed how much I disagreed.


The blocking idea you mentioned could be great, putting the sights button to good use. And that reminds me of Morrowind's successor, Oblivion, which had an improved combat system, including replacing statistical/automatic dodging/blocking with manual blocking and dodging abilities. Those add to the gameplay, unlike a factor based on chance.

Giving the device hit points, as someone suggested, would complicate things too much. A simple reward of decreased damage for skillfully reacting to the attack would be most fitting to KF, as long as it were balanced so blocking couldn't be useful when spammed to death.

 

[ANTHEM]

I'm probably gonna take this idea to a new thread based solely on my last post, so TWI can find it.

They DO take suggestions - they're good people.

Any feedback?

 

[HaTeMe]

Plus I doubt that many people are stealing your flamethrowers as they weigh 10 blocks and not too many people have 10 blocks of weight free.

Yes that is true, but its more of an problem with the new comers who havent bought a weapon yet.

BUT! My point wasnt about the flamerthrower itself, but the katana. It would weight 3 blocks which means everyone would (accidently or not) pick them up when you throw them around the map.

 

[Nitronumber9]

Looking at the berserker, its primary job is tank so either it needs a higher damage reduction or some way to defend itself and its team.
How about instead of blocking attacks we throw the berserker a riot shield? Firstly it will backup the Zerks main primary goal, 2 it allows the berserker to spend money on something. (treat it like a medics body armor) and it also gives a special weapon to the zerk which its missing.
That leaves the katana as its assassination weapon, the chainsaw for crowd control and the riot shield for tanking.

 

[Yu_Fucndie]

Zerkers are pretty strong in their attack.

But I compeltely agree in the defence area, specially against melee attacks.

You seem to loose health pretty quickly.

I love as a Zerker jumping the Husk fire, speeding up towards him and cutting his head off with the Katana, awesome playing .

Exactly. Beserker is fun, well, sometimes is fun and used to be more fun. I was thinking more about the 60% physical\melee damage reduction. I was thinking to keep things realistic, you should have to have a melee weapon equipped to get the bonus. Just like the running speed increase. I believe a damage reduction of some sort is the only way to make the beserker perk a realistic option once again on suicidal.

 

[Yu_Fucndie]

your implying zerkers on suicidal SHOULD be able to take on a FP solo? ... ... thread over, this is just another f0cking pointless 'whackoff in awe of douche with large knife' thread.

welcome to the forums, by the way...

Looky here, another punk with an online ego problem. Of course I think a zerker should be able to solo a FP on suicidal. As a support, I can unload a full aa12 clip and drop a FP even with a full party on suicidal. Also, a Sharp Shooter with an M14 or xbow can easily drop a FP. A lvl6 demos pipe bombs can drop a FP. Why shouldn't a beserker/melee expert be able to fight a FP? As a beserker you should have the expertise to know how and where to hit anything to seriously damage it and you should also have the knowledge, from years of training and experience, of how to avoid a melee attack or at least deflect most of the damage.

 

[Yu_Fucndie]

If you can block with the weapon and the weapon breaks, theoretically you won't have anything to attack with. It's much harder than you think to throw katanas around on the floor, because anyone who walks near it will pick it up by accident.

Perhaps some form of compromise, like changing katana's alt fire to a parry that reduces physical damage by half? You'd have to sacrifice attacking to parry, but your weapon doesn't go so far as to "break".

Good suggestion.

 

[HaTeMe]

Looky here, another punk with an online ego problem. Of course I think a zerker should be able to solo a FP on suicidal. As a support, I can unload a full aa12 clip and drop a FP even with a full party on suicidal. Also, a Sharp Shooter with an M14 or xbow can easily drop a FP. A lvl6 demos pipe bombs can drop a FP. Why shouldn't a beserker/melee expert be able to fight a FP? As a beserker you should have the expertise to know how and where to hit anything to seriously damage it and you should also have the knowledge, from years of training and experience, of how to avoid a melee attack or at least deflect most of the damage.

Well, I guess they thought FP would be berserkers weakness such as Scrake is demomans and husk is firebugs. After all, a lvl 6 berseker can kill anything else with a single chop (apart from scrake but he can stun him so whats the difference rly).

Altho... I consider crawlers berserkers worst enemy too LOL, so hard to avoid their attacks damned creatures. Even tho I back up a bit and let them jump first like half the time they take a bite of me anyway ><

 

[Yu_Fucndie]

Well, I guess they thought FP would be berserkers weakness such as Scrake is demomans and husk is firebugs. After all, a lvl 6 berseker can kill anything else with a single chop (apart from scrake but he can stun him so whats the difference rly).

Altho... I consider crawlers berserkers worst enemy too LOL, so hard to avoid their attacks damned creatures. Even tho I back up a bit and let them jump first like half the time they take a bite of me anyway ><

Ya, I have pretty much mastered their attack. I slowly back away from them and then step back hard when they jump at me and then just aim down and kill them with a katana. They never touch me that way. But there isn't always enough room and sometimes other targets take priority. Of course they fall on your head sometimes too 0.o

 

[robdude19]

Yes to melee blocking (resistance increase)

Yes to melee blocking (resistance increase)

Looky here, another punk with an online ego problem. Of course I think a zerker should be able to solo a FP on suicidal. As a support, I can unload a full aa12 clip and drop a FP even with a full party on suicidal. Also, a Sharp Shooter with an M14 or xbow can easily drop a FP. A lvl6 demos pipe bombs can drop a FP. Why shouldn't a beserker/melee expert be able to fight a FP? As a beserker you should have the expertise to know how and where to hit anything to seriously damage it and you should also have the knowledge, from years of training and experience, of how to avoid a melee attack or at least deflect most of the damage.

Talking like this too much will get you banned eventually. The guy even said "welcome to the forum." Learn to take criticism like a man, don't take it personal if someone doesn't share your opinion, and don't ever misquote anyone.

Anyway, I like the idea of blocking with melee weapons, it seems logical for the axe and katana at least. I think it's been discussed some before but it seems kind of funny that there's no blocking at all, when you sure as hell would irl.

I think the zerk should be able to survive a fp encounter, but not necessarily stand toe to toe with one, since lets face it theyre effing bada$$. A block that reduces melee damage an extra 40% at lvl 6 would accomplish this nicely (65% total resistance against melee), and spam blocking would only get you killed more slowly, so it would still be better to kill stuff in general. The increased resistance against melee would make the zerk comparable to a high-level Medic in terms of tanking, which is perfectly reasonable to me. The block would mostly be useful for taking a fp hit or unavoidable gorefast attack. For this purpose you should be able to block faster than making a normal attack, which makes sense because you only need to bring the sword up in front of you instead of back down again like a normal swing.

You could hold right-click and "block" any melee hit directly in front of you (except maybe a low crawler pounce), quickly changing directions if you're getting attacked from multiple angles. This would give you an alternative to the usual hack n slash if you need to retreat, as well as an easier way to deal with crawlers (crouch-block-kill). Besides the blocking mechanics, TWI would have to let players assign right-click to block for melee weapons without changing the right-click aim for guns.

@ ANTHEM, I think it would be fun to have some kind of skillful, risky method to disable fps (like the decap before the update), but that's not needed for scrakes since you already have auto-stun (unless you trade it). Either way, I think a blocking mechanic would at least help zerks survive on the front lines more often, and bring a fresh change of gameplay.

 

[ANTHEM]

I don't know.

No one agrees that it'd be fun to run up to a fleshpound and jam a katana into his grinder, making him freak out and scream, rearing his head while the rest of the team pours ammo into him?

I think that's the whole point of berserker, to get up close and be a risky.

Thanks for some feedback on this, FINALLY!

 

[Nanostrike]

I don't know.

No one agrees that it'd be fun to run up to a fleshpound and jam a katana into his grinder, making him freak out and scream, rearing his head while the rest of the team pours ammo into him?

I think that's the whole point of berserker, to get up close and be a risky.

Thanks for some feedback on this, FINALLY!

Well, the Katana used to be a big enough damage weapon that, if the FP isn't aimed at you, you could run up to it, hold down ALT-FIRE and be both a bodyblocker AND decent damager. It was fun. I loved it.

Now, all you can do is run up to 'em and spamclick for mediocre damage. Not fun. Doesn't feel effective at all and actually feels TEDIOUS. Not to mention that if you grab a crossbow, you can do a TON more damage with a single headshot than you could with repeated ALT-FIRE Katana slashes to the face.

It's the same with Scrakes, really. I buy a Crossbow and use it on 'em if they're in a crowd. No reason to spamclick them to death when you can pop their heads with a single shot...

I'm not trying to be a whiner here. I don't mind single-clicking on most enemies that go down in 1-2 hits (Most in a single headshot!). In fact, I like it better. But with bigger ones that take multiple hits, the single-clicking SUCKS. It feels tedious and makes hacking down a Scrake more like a chore than something fun. He doesn't even flinch after you stun him! It's like hitting a dummy and that's no fun...

This fun-reduction is probably one of the reasons that, even though I'm good at it and the team often wants me to, I hardly play Berserker. I just plain can't see the point in being one when I can do everything the class can do and MORE as a Sharpshooter or Commando!

Ya, I have pretty much mastered their attack. I slowly back away from them and then step back hard when they jump at me and then just aim down and kill them with a katana. They never touch me that way. But there isn't always enough room and sometimes other targets take priority. Of course they fall on your head sometimes too 0.o

If 2-3 crawlers somehow get directly on top of you or directly under you (This happens a LOT in stairwells), be prepared to get mauled or killed in seconds on Suicidal. Incredibly annoying!

 

[HaTeMe]

If 2-3 crawlers somehow get directly on top of you or directly under you (This happens a LOT in stairwells), be prepared to get mauled or killed in seconds on Suicidal. Incredibly annoying!

Haha, yeah. Sometimes Im just trying to attack a crawler with katana on stairs and then it disappears, I look around its nowhere to be seen but still damaging me. Then I notice Im sitting on him -_-, or its sitting on me. Also gorefasts tend to jump on my head at Bedlam when they rush over the barriers, annoyyying.

 

[Yu_Fucndie]

Haha, yeah. Sometimes Im just trying to attack a crawler with katana on stairs and then it disappears, I look around its nowhere to be seen but still damaging me. Then I notice Im sitting on him -_-, or its sitting on me. Also gorefasts tend to jump on my head at Bedlam when they rush over the barriers, annoyyying.

To me it's really annoying that the zeds on Killing Floor always seem to try to get behind you. They shouldn't be that smart. Plus they move away from nades. That's crap too. Zeds are supposed to be mindless and always just walking straight towards you. At least that's how I've always seen them portrayed.