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Firebug is in trouble

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#21
- rescue a teammate in trouble assuming they are trapped by normal zed i can also nade myself (lvl 3+) and free myself
- sorta tank husk?
- weaken zeds
- easy kill stealing.. depending on your timing of the burn
- good for the 1st few waves
- fire nades?....
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Fire 'nades are worse than normal 'nades, except for the fact that you are resistant to them. Husks aren't tough enough to be an issue. Why weaken specs when you can kill them? Why would you want to kill steal and usually people steal burnout kills. No perks are bad in the first few waves.
In that order.

The firebug isn't a sweeper class so much as a mob class but there aren't enough specs for it to be necessary to rely on a mob class over a sweeper, and all perks can do sweeper efficiently enough except for zerker (because he has to close distance) and demo-man (because he has less ammo). The firebug is pitched as a niche perk but other perks contain that niche and more use with more weapons and more ammo and better buffs.
 
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#22
With the new update where Firebug players themselves that are level 5+ will not get burnt by their own flames and get retarded obscure vision (100% immune to fire). That fixes one problem, but that doesn't help that it can still give other players obscure vision or hard to aim at larger ZEDs, much like that one Demo guy who pops an M79 grenade at one freaking clot.

I still don't see any valid points out of anyone here that has made Firebug seem worthwhile perk when a Demo pops in with equal level. I am a level 6 Firebug and I feel utterly useless in Suicidal maps when even a Level 4 Demo comes in dropping pipe bombs at useful locations and actually using his M79 when larger ZEDs come about (unless there is a Level 5+ SS with xbow ready to BOOM HEADSHOT Scrake/Fleshpounds).

To those defending Firebug that it can take out massive crowds, even when a Firebug engulf ZEDs into flame, team mates still kill them off to get their money's worth with SCARs, AA12, etc. when it is unncessary (unless it's Suicidal, lord forbid you do not shoot that Gorefast on fire). It's just like when someone head shots a Bloat, but some guy has this massive hard-on urge to finish it off. The damage over time is what makes Firebug so inferior into comparison to Demo which has the same ideal crowd control usage except their damage is instant. Of course, they have the backlash if a retard is controlling it and fires their launcher at point blank.

Overall, Firebug seems pretty useless once Demo player comes into play and don't, "HURR FIRE GRENADE AT ONE CLOT."
 
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#25
Apart from the lack of variety- I feel the only thing hurting the firebug is ammo supply. On suicidal, I need to be incredibly picky about when to turn on the heat or I'm out of ammo way, way, way too quickly. Even being picky, the amount of fuel you get just doesn't last long enough, in my opinion.

R6 Firebug is my 2nd fav perk next to Berserker, despite the ammo concern.
 
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#26
Add another canister of gas to the flamethrower.

That's the real problem, there's not enough ammo to fire consistently when you need to, and the flamethrower isn't powerful enough to warrant such an ungainly capacity.

Also, make all explosives the firebug uses be incendiary. You can take an m79 with a flamethrower and then have a way to light up groups at a distance. And you could use it to initially light up tough enemies, as fire grenades do more burn damage than the flamethrower. (A single nade can burn a bloat to death)
 
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#31
SIL said:
I invite any and all constructive criticism, but don't flame. Opinions are nice too. TL;DR, get out of this thread and don't post a response, nobody cares that you didn't read everything on the Internet.
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Play friendly fire. A firebug out up front is well respected and normally you wont come across anyone playing demo.
 
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#32
gusone said:
Play friendly fire. A firebug out up front is well respected and normally you wont come across anyone playing demo.
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IF the Firebug doesn't get shot to death!

And yeah, whenever I play Friendly Fire, a demoman usually ends up blowing up half the team with a craptastically placed pipebomb or thoughtless nade spam.

We usually MERCILESSLY berate him until he switches classes or starts crying into the mic. Both are satisfactory outcomes...
 
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#34
gusone said:
Play friendly fire. A firebug out up front is well respected and normally you wont come across anyone playing demo.
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i play suicidal demo with FF On, mercilessly berate any idiot dumb enough to stand on my pipes that are typically on a spawn just waiting to blow a group up

I also Berate people who:

1. Stand in front of me on FF and wonder why they get killed by me (Look behind you, next time, stupid sharpshooter)

2. Rush into a group i've been setting up for nades and then wonder why they blew up

3. Play sharpshooter and complain about me being a demo, even when i'm shooting things in such a way as to make them more obvious and visible (Shooting a nade into the side or back of a moving group will kill trash typically as well as make a nice, bright, backdrop for sharpies to abuse)

Theres more, but i'm getting OT

Firebug really needs help or to earn money from "Crisping" things, even if they dont die, +Crispy enemies should take more damage, after all, i duo with a firebug as a demo a lot, he toasts things, i take advantage of their lowered health, it's all in how you work with your team
 
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#35
First of all I urge the OP to play a harder skill level. All your posts indicate that you feel you have to compete with demo men for kills. The game isn't meant to be that laid back, its meant to be so frantic that you are glad to have a team mate's firepower to back you up. Play a harder skill level you are obviously ready for it.

Also if you feel demo man and firebug kind of make each other redundant (might be right too), then just keep away from him, there's always more than one entry to hold off. If a team has 2 or more demo men and/or 2 or more firebugs then it is not a well balanced team and will fail anyway (someone gotta change class in this case).

Other points I'd like to make:
-Firebugs get less kills but don't need all that much money. As you perk up the flame thrower becomes very cheap and since you don't have an expensive super weapon to look forward to, you don't need a lot of money. Firebug is a support role not for soloing and a good one is still very valuable to a team I believe. In other words, you don't get a lot of kills but your job is to weaken them. Although I agree that its wrong for team mates to shoot up something like a burning crawler/stalker/clot.

-I'm very sick of hearing people say "husk immunity is useless because firebug can't hurt Husk either". Its funny people would say that because last I looked dualies, SCAR, katana which can be carried in addition to flamethrower, all rip up Husk quite nicely - while still being immune to the bastard.

-The incininary grenades are better than standard nades. Not in the least because you can nade your own feet when surrounded, often a good alternative to reloading.

-Someone said the confusion/on fire effect on zeds just makes it 'harder for other classes to shoot them'. I presume you mean the crossbow since its the only weapon requiring precision, in which case I suggest that the crossbow is the problem (relying on cheap weapon to insta gib all scrakes and fps), and I bet the next patch will fix the Xbow.

Finally I think people are thinking too much along the lines of "other classes are buffed, why isn't firebug buffed???". The changes to other classes, namely the new weapons, is meant to be balanced. If its not, then you can be sure Tripwire is working on it. Be grateful for 7 extra weapons, what the hell else do you want to give firebug anyway? Incinenary bullets someone said...wtf how are bullpups and pistols supposed to shoot fireballs???
 
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#36
In my honest opinion Firebug trumps demo ALMOST any day. After playing all the default muts on hard...Fire bug is the SAFEST choice because of his huge as "clip" for the flamethrower. He can put out constant damage unlike the demo. Even at close range it destroys.

Demo is good for long-mid range support. As long as your distance is kept you're fine. It is just the slow reload that kills the demo. The reload can and will ALWAYS put you it very tight spots. Also, the pipe bombs are just soooo powerful. For example: Patty round I had pick a place to solo him and for the whole 10 round I put by pipes in a area where I knew they wouldn't blow. Patty comes around the corner and BOISPHFHALJSGFLAJGFKASJFF, just then about 60+ pipes went off......
The pipe bombs really need to be tended to. In a way they are balence, but because there is no limit on them there is a great unbalence.
 
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#37
Give them gasoline like in postal 2, put some on the ground and then ask a commando "May I trouble you for a match?", "Ah sure, here it is".
*awesome fiesta whoohohoho"

It would be really cool if you could buy some of it and then put a track on the ground and then wuuush.
 
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#38
driftwood said:
First of all I urge the OP to play a harder skill level. All your posts indicate that you feel you have to compete with demo men for kills. The game isn't meant to be that laid back, its meant to be so frantic that you are glad to have a team mate's firepower to back you up. Play a harder skill level you are obviously ready for it.

Also if you feel demo man and firebug kind of make each other redundant (might be right too), then just keep away from him, there's always more than one entry to hold off. If a team has 2 or more demo men and/or 2 or more firebugs then it is not a well balanced team and will fail anyway (someone gotta change class in this case).

Other points I'd like to make:
-Firebugs get less kills but don't need all that much money. As you perk up the flame thrower becomes very cheap and since you don't have an expensive super weapon to look forward to, you don't need a lot of money. Firebug is a support role not for soloing and a good one is still very valuable to a team I believe. In other words, you don't get a lot of kills but your job is to weaken them. Although I agree that its wrong for team mates to shoot up something like a burning crawler/stalker/clot.

-I'm very sick of hearing people say "husk immunity is useless because firebug can't hurt Husk either". Its funny people would say that because last I looked dualies, SCAR, katana which can be carried in addition to flamethrower, all rip up Husk quite nicely - while still being immune to the bastard.

-The incininary grenades are better than standard nades. Not in the least because you can nade your own feet when surrounded, often a good alternative to reloading.

-Someone said the confusion/on fire effect on zeds just makes it 'harder for other classes to shoot them'. I presume you mean the crossbow since its the only weapon requiring precision, in which case I suggest that the crossbow is the problem (relying on cheap weapon to insta gib all scrakes and fps), and I bet the next patch will fix the Xbow.

Finally I think people are thinking too much along the lines of "other classes are buffed, why isn't firebug buffed???". The changes to other classes, namely the new weapons, is meant to be balanced. If its not, then you can be sure Tripwire is working on it. Be grateful for 7 extra weapons, what the hell else do you want to give firebug anyway? Incinenary bullets someone said...wtf how are bullpups and pistols supposed to shoot fireballs???
Click to expand...

I play Hard and Suicidal. Honestly, difficulty isn't the issue. The issue is that I'm not going to get much done when there is a demo around. The only thing that won't be a cloud of debris is a larger (see bloat plus) specimen...and then I can't even hurt those without using an entire fuel canister.

I wouldn't even know where to begin to "buff" the Firebug. I'm just here to point out that the introduction of the demo has essentially REPLACED Firebug. Seriously, why play Firebug when a demo can do the same damage instantly, on a larger scale, without ammo concerns, and can handle the larger specimens with ease (see pipebombs). Firebug has one weapon. Uno, one, singular. Demo has 2 launchers, grenades, and pipebombs that all fall under his weapon benefits. He also gets resistance to explosives as well, which is similar to Firebug. We're resistant to fire.

I'm not complaining about kill count or anything like that, I'm complaining about ROLE. My role was to sweep the lesser specimens and aid the commando, ignite the bigger ones to aid in damage over time and call them out as the "candle walking towards us." Instead, my role at the current moment is to sit and watch pretty fireworks. Not my idea when I select Firebug.

The introduction of the Demo class has removed the role of the firebug. Period.
 
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#39
In addition to the points of the post above me, which I agree with, the overall buffing of ranged classes has made the FB less useful: The amount of zeds that make it to "oh crap" range has decreased, the ability of others to kill groups has increased; all this making specialized short-range sweepers even less needed.
 
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#40
DocDave said:
In addition to the points of the post above me, which I agree with, the overall buffing of ranged classes has made the FB less useful: The amount of zeds that make it to "oh crap" range has decreased, the ability of others to kill groups has increased; all this making specialized short-range sweepers even less needed.
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Truth. Firebugs arent as needed, simply because they don't really bring much compared to an even level demo or a quick sharpshooter now

FB Needs something like incendiary ammo (30% Less damage or so, ignites enemies) or a new flamer (Current flamer dropped to 7 blocks, new 10-block flamer with an alt-fire husk "Fireball"?) to really bring back a lot of the old crazy pyrohappyfuntimes
 
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