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Beta Map RO-Debrecen beta2

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#41
karl stiner said:
i have a book on late war tank battles and this is what Happend :) October 1944: The great Soviet drive of the summer crested in Hungary where desparate German units, far closer to their supply depots, finally slowed the Soviet spearheads in eastern Hungary. In late October, near the town of Debrecen two German Korps sought to cut off and destroy a Soviet Mechanized group that had outran its infantry support. Supporting the attacks of the 23 Panzer Division was sPz Abt. 503, equipped with King Tiger tanks. Divided up into kampfgruppes and parceled out to the support the grenadiers, the group claimed a total of 1500(!) tanks and 120 anti-tank guns destroyed in that period. At the same time, three Soviet Corps in and around Debrecen were surrounded and destroyed. it was a big tank battle:p
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wOOt!

would love to see some KTs in action in RO someday. sweetness! as it is, they are fun in CMBB. fun schtuffs. :D
 
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#42
karl_stiner -> nobody will be playing against 5 king tigers, in real there were also IL2 which easily could destroy king tiger, also russians had much more tanks. You can play realistic battle only in some strategy like Combat Mission, here in RO is just impossible unless you want very unbalanced battle. In battle of Debrecen was fighting also 24th Pz Division, 1st Pz Division and 13th Pz Division, so I'm sure that not in all german division were only King Tigers.
 
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#43
Keystone said:
karl_stiner -> nobody will be playing against 5 king tigers, in real there were also IL2 which easily could destroy king tiger, also russians had much more tanks. You can play realistic battle only in some strategy like Combat Mission, here in RO is just impossible unless you want very unbalanced battle. In battle of Debrecen was fighting also 24th Pz Division, 1st Pz Division and 13th Pz Division, so I'm sure that not in all german division were only King Tigers.
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No only have 3 king tigers and 2 panthers and the Russians will have su100s to go with the JS2s. i won your map today and its the first time i played it, but i wont the king tiger because of History even 2 king tigers will be nice, this map is very good as it has long range fighting ideal for the king tiger
 
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#44
So this will be also unbalanced 27 soviet tanks vs 5 germans? Nobody would like play this. Tank numbers must be even. This is not strategy, you can play battle 5 king tigers vs 30 soviet tanks in for example game Combat Mission beacuse there all tanks are active, but if you make map with for example 5 king tigers vs 30 soviet tanks in RO and if there will be only 10 players on server so teams will be looks like 5 king tigers vs 5 soviet tanks and this is completely unbalanced. In combat mission you can also balance game by giving to enemy units less quality so they will more often miss while shooting...
Here in RO tank numbers must be even... or at least 3-4 tanks less in axis than in allies.
 
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#45
I would defend Keystone here really - i mean he saw a need for a large tank map that was fairer to Russians (ie is2/t34-85 era) for use with AB- knew nothing about about the editor but worked it out and made a simple but effective map that is popular.
It's phaps better he spent time learning to map than reading up on historical tank engagments (not that i dont appreciate the research knowledge of many forum members and the contribbutions they make here)

Firstly there is no useable su-100 or KT so thats hardly theres nothing he can do about that- and regardless- this game works with even numbers on each side. Unless cronically nerfed just 1 King tiger will run riot on a large open map - i only see this tank working as a non respawner, or in your confined Berlin style maps where it can be trapped- or phaps with russian AT inf.
And rightly so 'where are the KTs' can always be argued by ' where is the airsupport or massive numerical advantage?' I dont think your ever gonna get loads of russian tankers in RO happy to be the fodder for a handfull of German players in KTs that suddenly think they are masters of tanking (phaps convieniently forgetting the total advantage that the vehicle they love gives them). This is what happens with the Tigers in orel using AB- the KT scenario would be far worse balance wise.

KT is the bizz- i love it but its only gonna work if used intelligently- but thats getting ahead , for now keystone dont be distracted and carry on cos from general reaction it seems you are doing a good job.
 
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#46
Keystone said:
So this will be also unbalanced 27 soviet tanks vs 5 germans? Nobody would like play this. Tank numbers must be even. This is not strategy, you can play battle 5 king tigers vs 30 soviet tanks in for example game Combat Mission beacuse there all tanks are active, but if you make map with for example 5 king tigers vs 30 soviet tanks in RO and if there will be only 10 players on server so teams will be looks like 5 king tigers vs 5 soviet tanks and this is completely unbalanced. In combat mission you can also balance game by giving to enemy units less quality so they will more often miss while shooting...
Here in RO tank numbers must be even... or at least 3-4 tanks less in axis than in allies.
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No you will give them some stugs and the panzer 4h hahahha 27 soviet tanks vs 5 Germans:D:D hehe theres lots of ways to make it fair unless you have a pea sized Brain :p you can make the tanks spawn a Number of times ;) then they Dont get anymore Relax man:)
 
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#47
Heinz said:
oh!, you should have said earlier, that you were looking for the yes-another-boring-ratbox-infantry-only-linear-fight-snoozefest map development sub-forum. it's on the other page, silly!

(Keystone, sweet map!).
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I don't play tank-only maps, so I don't have an opinion on the merits of this particular map. I know some people enjoy them and I accept that. I'll take the infantry snoozefest over sitting around taking potshots at other tanks that are sitting around waiting to see who blows up first. Combined arms maps are cool though, blowing up a metal monster as a lone soldier is quite gratifying.

BTW there really aren't that many good tight infantry-only maps like stalingrad, odessa, danzig and warsaw2. RO definitely needs some Budapest action a la Leningrad but less linear.
 
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#48
Keystone said:
In battle of Debrecen was fighting also 24th Pz Division, 1st Pz Division and 13th Pz Division, so I'm sure that not in all german division were only King Tigers.
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The Tigers and King Tigers were in a separated unit (the Schwere Panzer Abteilung's). Only the Panther, StuG, Panzer IV etc were in the regular Panzer (grenadier) Divisions. So you could even get rid of the Tiger, RO has implemented the Tiger really weird on their maps (every map has 1 tiger, one Panther and several Panzer III/IV instead of a lot Panthers and Panzers).
 
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#49
Great map, and a lot of fun!

Two suggestions:
-- Improve the location naming, so team talk can work.

-- Please, please, please consider greatly widening the cap zones. For most maps, the cap zone is a copse of trees. I hate getting killed while just waiting to cap.

A corollary of above: If you think a cap zone might be held by the enemy hidden amongst the trees, all you have to do is hose down the woods with an MG, then shoot an AP round where the bullets deflect from.
 
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#50
Boogerhead said:
Great map, and a lot of fun!

Two suggestions:
-- Improve the location naming, so team talk can work.

-- Please, please, please consider greatly widening the cap zones. For most maps, the cap zone is a copse of trees. I hate getting killed while just waiting to cap.

A corollary of above: If you think a cap zone might be held by the enemy hidden amongst the trees, all you have to do is hose down the woods with an MG, then shoot an AP round where the bullets deflect from.
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hehe keep your eyes open and you wont get killed ;):p you see him first you kill him first its simple :cool:
 
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#52
sander said:
The Tigers and King Tigers were in a separated unit (the Schwere Panzer Abteilung's). Only the Panther, StuG, Panzer IV etc were in the regular Panzer (grenadier) Divisions. So you could even get rid of the Tiger, RO has implemented the Tiger really weird on their maps (every map has 1 tiger, one Panther and several Panzer III/IV instead of a lot Panthers and Panzers).
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yes your right :)
 
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#53
My suggestion would be that if you were going to add more Tigers and Panthers, would be to do a one time spawn like Leningrad and no more for the rest of round.

Say at the very beginning, the Axis gets 5 Tigers and 5 panthers, but they don't respawn (ever).

That would make it with a sort of "historical" approach showing that the Germans have limited quantities of tanks compared to the Soviets.

So once the Soviets destroy the initial German push, then it will put the axis at a disadvantage.
 
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#54
karl stiner so you claim that this map is not realistic beacuse there are tanks like PzIV and Panthers? There wasn't fighting only 503rd Heavy Panzer Detachment with King Tigers only but also 24th Pz D, 23rd Pz D, 1st Pz D and 13th Pz D and there were PzIV, PzV, StuGs, Marders, JgdPz-IV.
Realism in game is very cool till it keeps balanced and fair game. But realism with realistic loadouts like King Tigers vs T34/85/IS2 isn't cool. I understand you are big fan of huge, invicible german tanks that you would like to kick a** them soviets but the most important is to having fun and keeping balanced battle. Battle like you want is only possible in game Combat Mission but not here in RO beacuse you can't simulate poor quality of soviet tank crewmans, numerical advantage of soviet tanks etc. You can make your map with 10 King Tigers vs T34/85, IS2 I'm wondering how they people enjoy with playing in allies team. If there will be King Tiger released I'll add maybe only 1 on this map. Maybe number of tanks won't be realistic but it's enough realistic that on battle are tanks which were in this time period and in this battle.
 
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#55
Keystone said:
karl stiner so you claim that this map is not realistic beacuse there are tanks like PzIV and Panthers? There wasn't fighting only 503rd Heavy Panzer Detachment with King Tigers only but also 24th Pz D, 23rd Pz D, 1st Pz D and 13th Pz D and there were PzIV, PzV, StuGs, Marders, JgdPz-IV.
Realism in game is very cool till it keeps balanced and fair game. But realism with realistic loadouts like King Tigers vs T34/85/IS2 isn't cool. I understand you are big fan of huge, invicible german tanks that you would like to kick a** them soviets but the most important is to having fun and keeping balanced battle. Battle like you want is only possible in game Combat Mission but not here in RO beacuse you can't simulate poor quality of soviet tank crewmans, numerical advantage of soviet tanks etc. You can make your map with 10 King Tigers vs T34/85, IS2 I'm wondering how they people enjoy with playing in allies team. If there will be King Tiger released I'll add maybe only 1 on this map. Maybe number of tanks won't be realistic but it's enough realistic that in battle are tanks which were in this time period and in this battle.
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No i have won many battles on your map with the tanks i have, and i will never put 10 king tigers on a map. i told you before i be happy with 2 king tigers and 2 panthers and the king tigers spawn a Number and times and then No more :) anyway i dont wont to get into an Argument with you, as i respect you and your map ok ;)
 
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#56
karl stiner said:
No i have won many battles on your map with the tanks i have, and i will never put 10 king tigers on a map. i told you before i be happy with 2 king tigers and 2 panthers and the king tigers spawn a Number and times and then No more :) anyway i dont wont to get into an Argument with you, as i respect you and your map ok ;)
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If you're so awesome and win so many battles as you claim then why do you NEED more
 
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#59
Keystone said:
karl stiner so why you said that there are too many StuGs and PzIVH? And what than? More panthers instead of those stugs and PzIVH that axis would have too much superiority? When battle on this map is currently quite a bit balanced with loadouts as are now.
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ok just leave it as it is then ;) but i would like to see 2 new tanks in the future ok and the su100 is one of them i like to drive one at some point just to see how sneaky it really was :) on this big map, and thanks for your map ;-)
 
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