Ferdinand foto
- Thread starter FatPartizan
- Start date
Hah - proof of my theory about another photo!!!
Look at this photo here, and notice where the shell-hole is:
http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/113-03.jpg
Now look at this photo:
That HAS to be the same vehicle - even the box door swung open at the front is the same.
Look at this photo here, and notice where the shell-hole is:
http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/113-03.jpg
Now look at this photo:
That HAS to be the same vehicle - even the box door swung open at the front is the same.
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Hah - proof of my theory about another photo!!!
Look at this photo here, and notice where the shell-hole is:
http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/113-03.jpg
Now look at this photo:
That HAS to be the same vehicle - even the box door swung open at the front is the same.
I'm not so sure they're the same. They could be two different vehicles hit in nearly the same spot. If you look closely one hole is slightly further forward than the other. Also the first vehicle has some kind of armour at the rear just above the treads which isn't present on the one you posted. Not to mention that one is on level ground and one clearly isn't, so it would have to be towed between photos (which is plausible). It's likely that the concussion of a shell hit or penetration might blow open the door on an external locker on any tank.
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Another view of it: http://victory.rusarchives.ru/image/photo/225_big.jpg
IMO the pic with the grenade is a fake/posed photo, as are so many wartime photos ...
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Well obviously faked. Can you imagine trying to do that picture in real combat.
Here's the situation...
Photographer: "OK, Ivan now pull the pin...that's it, raise it above your head..hold it just there..Oh damn - the sun's gone behind a cloud!....hold it right there...wait...wait" *Kabbooom!* "Erm - can we get a new model please?"
Here's the situation...
Photographer: "OK, Ivan now pull the pin...that's it, raise it above your head..hold it just there..Oh damn - the sun's gone behind a cloud!....hold it right there...wait...wait" *Kabbooom!* "Erm - can we get a new model please?"
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I'd say this photo is faked (note - faked, not posed): it has 2 photos combined together.
But actually, I've seen some similar photos of actual combat. I can remeber a group of russian marines fighting in Sevastopol, photographer had taken that picture when one of them was throwing a grenade. Also, there is another photo of soldier's group in a foxhole, one of them had already thrown his F1 (you can see its explosion), the other is about to do it. The photographers were quite cautious, you can't see any enemies, the pictures are blurry etc - I'd say it was a real deal.
But actually, I've seen some similar photos of actual combat. I can remeber a group of russian marines fighting in Sevastopol, photographer had taken that picture when one of them was throwing a grenade. Also, there is another photo of soldier's group in a foxhole, one of them had already thrown his F1 (you can see its explosion), the other is about to do it. The photographers were quite cautious, you can't see any enemies, the pictures are blurry etc - I'd say it was a real deal.
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Their camouflage pattern seem slightly different though: one seems to have small, light dots with a dark colour as base (staged photo) while the other has larger, dark spots on a light colour base.
Could've been repainted for the staged photo of course.
Could've been repainted for the staged photo of course.
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I would even go as far and call it faked.Staged photo
The soldier somehow looks cut out and pasted it...
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All these Ferdinands are on FatPartizan's link:
I think the staged/fake photo is of this Ferdinand no. 623: http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/623-02.jpg
My reason for saying this is the vegetation in front, also the open panel right front (also note damage to panel is different) and the "shell hole" - which I think is not damage, but possibly ventilation hole, because there is something there on all Ferdinands.
The one you indicated Nestor, I think is Ferdinand no. 113, which is also on FatPartizan's link. The photo I linked is also shown there.
There seems to be uncertainty how 113 was damaged - one source states "hit by shell" (http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=255&Itemid=117),
but FatPartizan's link says antitank mine.
I think the staged/fake photo is of this Ferdinand no. 623: http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/623-02.jpg
My reason for saying this is the vegetation in front, also the open panel right front (also note damage to panel is different) and the "shell hole" - which I think is not damage, but possibly ventilation hole, because there is something there on all Ferdinands.
The one you indicated Nestor, I think is Ferdinand no. 113, which is also on FatPartizan's link. The photo I linked is also shown there.
There seems to be uncertainty how 113 was damaged - one source states "hit by shell" (http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=255&Itemid=117),
but FatPartizan's link says antitank mine.
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You're right. After looking at several Elefant pics online I see they all have something there, so it can't be a shell hole. Must be for ventilation or a side view port.
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Perhaps, but from what I could find out, the large round door at the back was used for this.
Wikipedia says there are only two left: one Ferdinand in Russia, one Elefant in U.S. Army Ordnance Museum. The close-up of that spot in pic below from the one in the Kubinka Tank Museum in Russia:
http://svsm.org/albums/elephant/IMGP3204.jpg
See all museum photos here: http://svsm.org/gallery/elephant
There are such "holes" on each side (maybe even 2 more next to back door). On some of FatPartizan's link photos you'll notice a hole open and with the "cork" dangling from a cable.
Interesting: from claims made, Russians jumped on top and sprayed flamethrowers through Ferdinand air vents - hard to believe... Source of this is apparently The Tigers are Burning by Martin Caidin. See: http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~epf/1997/padilla.html
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Yes, pipe disguised as a Mosin Nagant and fuel pack like backpack to fool snipers !
Picture: http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/flamethrowers/ROKS2.jpg
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i saw on the TV of interview to the men , which saw as Ferdinand have burnt.
It was for a long time , I can be mistaken. Ok ?
1. It moved very slowly. The infantryman could move beside some time.
2. It has got stuck in a soft ground. In 50(?) meters from tranches.
3. It was fired with AT guns. Without results.
4. The crew was inside. They shot. It had dead zones. It was possible to approach to it.
5. First have blown up trucks . ( mine?).
6. The crew was inside, they sang .
7. Then have started to pour inside , an fire-mix. (from bottles??). If simply to throw a bottle, it burned on a lattice of the engine .
8. The crew has tried to leave burning tank. At them shot. (them have killed?)
It was for a long time , I can be mistaken. Ok ?
1. It moved very slowly. The infantryman could move beside some time.
2. It has got stuck in a soft ground. In 50(?) meters from tranches.
3. It was fired with AT guns. Without results.
4. The crew was inside. They shot. It had dead zones. It was possible to approach to it.
5. First have blown up trucks . ( mine?).
6. The crew was inside, they sang .
7. Then have started to pour inside , an fire-mix. (from bottles??). If simply to throw a bottle, it burned on a lattice of the engine .
8. The crew has tried to leave burning tank. At them shot. (them have killed?)
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The information I have about this tank is that it was deployed at Kursk basically out of the factory with little testing. Only 90 were built. They were considered somewhat of a failure because of a lack of a close in support--weapons system (i.e. machine gun). The result was they suffered a high loss to infantry tank hunters, placing mines, etc on the tank. From the pictures some were loss to fire from sides, but I would bet some simply broke down, and were destroyed by German engineers, because they couldn't recover them.. This was a common practice to keep the tanks being captured in one piece, although a few looked practically untouched in the pictures.
As a side note, about half were recovered and refitted with machine guns, and redeployed in other theaters. I know Italy had some elephants fighting the allies in late 1943-1944.
Another interesting note, is the terrain in the pictures seems very suitable for a tank like that, flat, long range distances.
BTW, great pictures, I have never seen so many of this tank.
As a side note, about half were recovered and refitted with machine guns, and redeployed in other theaters. I know Italy had some elephants fighting the allies in late 1943-1944.
Another interesting note, is the terrain in the pictures seems very suitable for a tank like that, flat, long range distances.
BTW, great pictures, I have never seen so many of this tank.
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This practice is possible, also because the Ferdinands at Kursk at times were without infantry support.
It seems this pouring method was common among Germans assaulting Soviet tanks too. Here's a picture of German troops doing the same to a KV-1:
http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/wray/images/sketch.gif
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