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Level Design How to leave distaste in your mouth - Iron Cresendo Shame!

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ViViD

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 2, 2005
584
26
#1
I was requested if they could use Narva map and modify it for the the Iron Cresendo campaign, I said that this could and there is no issues in modifying it.

Several moons have past and I was looking up some information and found myself to the Iron Cresendo page, only to see this post

http://forums.ironcrescendo.net/viewtopic.php?t=1011

So I had a read and became furious at first then had a serve distaste in my mouth. I don't mind the fact of the modifications, but the critisms of myself and others in my team were unnecessary and disgusting.

No 1. the reason there is no hills to help with optimisation cause it is a friggen historical map down to the depressions and topographic layouts. View google earth do your research.

No.2 Sandbags over the windows is an opinion not you are correct.

No3. There was no intention to have AT rifles used in this map when made for Narva the sandbags are for optimum MG height. NOT POORLY MADE!

Either way these are minor points I just think it is ingratfeul what was written in those posts. I not sure who this krull was sorry he got hammered from these people.

But as far as I am concerned IC will not be using any further of my maps, not that they want to and should be ashamed of themselves, in how they conduct themselves about talking about others works which has been gratefully allowed by them to be used.

Whether you like or dislike a map from a modifiers point of view you should atleast respect the work gone in and especillay if you going to use it for your own puproses. POOR FORM!

I suggest other mappers take note, and I would like a public apology from someone at IC once I can get into their forums.

edit: as far as optimisation the game is optimised for Narva17thMarch which been started all along with is not a huge tanking map. It is suprising that the Muddy Tigers is so popular if it runs like s hit on other servers, I not heard much complaint on performance issues, although I do know ins some areas it could run better. Also there is anti portals at each tank spawn one runs right along the railway track the other around the tiger spawn area so your talking more s hit. Yeah adding hills is only way to increase performance. but they are the break in doing historical maps

I don't have a quantum computer but the worse fram rate i get is 25fps, majority is 30-60fps
 
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#7
ViViD said:
mapping is a labour of love for the mapper, its not for the players, So please don't be too critical on mapper who do not always give the masses what they want.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is that maps are not for players so why do other people's opinion bother you so much? Why take the time to post a thread for criticism when a mapper does it for himself and not others? I don't think you can have it both ways.

Reservoir Dog
 
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#8
RD: I agree maps for mappers but if you give someone who obviously already seen you map the opportunity use it for their own purposes you don't expect to get slagged off, behind your back. And I know that just a way to have a dig at me cause I don't follow your thought pattern so I not getting annonied. If you can't see the morale aspects of this then you never see it.

Evilhobo: there is a way to be constructive without saying the thing he said.
Perhaps once, they slag off you perhaps you feel differently, also it is behind my back so I could of never used this information even if I did know. Also the thing is its not just me but the few of us that put the research and the heart into it, so I am taking exception on their behalf as well.

Also EH poking a bear with a stick is not a good way to play me. No map is perfect, we all do our best and hardest and each of us can point out flaws and ways to do things better in each other map, Give me a name of a map your done and I am sure I can pull it apart. But there is a way to do it and there is a way not to do. THis is a prime example how not to do it.
 
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#12
Seems this novice mapper in question needs to take a class on ethics, and maybe mapping classes as there are a few more portals then those houses, but I won't point out stupidity, thats just plain old nasty.
I am sure if the guy re phrased his comments it would have turned out differently and would have just been taken as general mapping criticism, but to give permission for a map to be modified, then for the person modifying it to slander the creator as he has done, and behind is back is both immoral and unethical.
It is a pity though as the 3rd mapping team are just polishing up a map ready to be released in Australia for alpha testing that has endless possibilities for people wishing to modify and it seems they won't now, that is with Vivids approval.

Evil Hobo express what issues you have will Narva as I would like to hear them and I am sure Vivid will also.
 
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#16
A few lessons to be learned:
1. Never consent to allowing others to modify your work if you do not know them well.
2. Get a list of things to be changed and make certain you have final approval.
3. Realize that most feedback is "opinion" and is neither right nor wrong in the big picture. Opinions in a community like this are only individual player preferences and generally should not drive development or fixes.
4. Weigh who says what and if the feedback is valid and does not alter your vision or scope of the project, implement it as you can.

People will always find a way to complain. Some are good at offering feedback but these are very few. "Great map!", "Play it all the time", "WOW" is crap for help. People that take time to technically explain their reasons are your gem helpers. But bottom line, if you let someone alter your work, you are to blame if you don't control the process/have final approval. Just be careful next time. The map has some potential to be better but you are a victim of trying to be historic/realistic. I appreciate that as much as anyone, but realize that you have to make concessions and be Ok with that. In the end, be happy with your project regardless of the critics. ;)
 
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#17
ViViD said:
The stupid thing is they did ask for my persmission I gave it to them but I didn't expect to see that disrespect.
Click to expand...

My Daddy had an expression that seems to fit this situation to a tee.

"Never deal with ingrates, ya give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile!"


I agree, you are owed an apology.

A long time ago, I raised sand over the wanton, intrusive editing of the original Orel, the complacency from that issue.. has again shown its ugly results. While you were gracious enough to grant editing permissions, you have certainly learned to never do so again.
 
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#18
ViViD, there is a history and a context to the last IC tournament that you should know before you get too mad at the responses. There was a lot of unhappiness in the Russian team with how the tournament was being run and played. When that version of Muddy Tigers was used, modded by a person that many on the Russian team distrusted, a lot of "elevated emotions" were released that had more to do with IC as a whole rather than the map in particular. I can see how you, coming to that thread without knowing the background, would take the comments in a way that were really unintended by the writers. In short, the last IC tournament became a powder keg that occasionally blew up, as they did in that thread.
 
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#19
Vivid I understand the way you feel. I'm not trying to "have a dig" at you. You are upset at the criticisms that were made by someone you thought you could trust. "Immoral" and "unethical" would be if they changed your map without your approval. That would be justification for starting a new thread in level design forum in my opinion. Since you gave approval for editing, that's not even the issue, even though it keeps getting mentioned over and over. Opinions are just that, opinions. Nothing more and nothing less. I think that Slyk's guidelines for giving out "permission for editing" is the most constructive part of this thread. And I totally agree with his views on feedback. Feedback, comments, suggestions or opinions are not "immoral" or "unethical." Consider the source and its relevancy then move on. I know this type of behavior by Iron Cresendo is not something I would do, support or encourage (and seems that most responses to this thread don't approve either) but they seem to be in their right to do so. You are a good mapper, chalk this up to a learning experience and move on dude.

Reservoir Dog

DocH: I'm not that guy.
 
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