Classes need rebalancing

[Daemion]

I know how to airburst grenades, but thanks anyway.

I see your point now. Tripwire is always right, and I'm wrong. I guess I just suck because vastly superior firepower puts me at a disadvantage. It's foolish of me to suggest that a game should be balanced. Whatever...

Just because you are still at the bottom edge of the games learnig curve it doesn't mean that the game ist unbalanced.
I know many ppl. (including myself) who have little problems to claim good scores (and K-D ratios if thats important to you) with standard rifle classes. You just should be a bit more patience and willing to learn....

 

[Avenger]

I wasn't aware that being on the top of the scoreboard nearly every match meant I was at the bottom of the game's learning curve, but whatever...

Someone lock this thread before I lose my f___ing temper with these imbiciles.

 

[EvilHobo]

Seems as though you already have.

Alright, I'll try to make this as clear as possible.

The game is based on realism. Realistically, not all weapons are balanced. This, therefore, is modeled. If you have a problem in using a weapon, then learn to use it and use it effectively in combat. Weapons were not fielded because they were useless. As was stated, bolt riflemen are often at the top, because they know how to use their class.

The instances you described of getting killed repeatedly by the enemy sniper are your fault, not the game's. You kept going back and trying to get him, and he continued to kill you because his scope offered him an advantage. Furthermore, if it was just you attempting to pursue him, then that makes his job easier, as he has one target, one threat, and therefore, one priority: your death. If for instance you got your teammates to overwhelm him, then there would have been little problem.

Individual score is irrelevant. If you fail to use your weapons and tactics properly, then you are lower on the learning curve, as much as you may not want to see that said.

 

[Witzig]

I wasn't aware that being on the top of the scoreboard nearly every match meant I was at the bottom of the game's learning curve, but whatever...

Someone lock this thread before I lose my f___ing temper with these imbiciles.

Well considering what Servers i sometimes encounter yes, that could be. And there is a lot of Cover for the Russians on Rakowice between their Spawns and the Enemy lines. If you describe where you spawned and where the enemy Sniper was, i might be able to offer soem tips .

btw
ALWAYS being on top of the Scoreboard on public Servers means one is doing okay, how good one really is you'll find out when playing a Clan Match or BFE...

Though no offense is intended, but Ostfront needs some getting used to, i myself was suprised how good i have become with Bolt-Actions (i usually avoid them) but yesterday on Odessa i really had a good streak , and came close to going 50% on my Ammo

 

[Avenger]

And I'll try to make this as clear as possible:

I'm not a newbie. I've been playing RO for well over a year, and I've been playing FPS games since they were invented. So don't gimme this crap like "Oh, you just don't know how to do it."

I nearly always use rifles, and I kick ass with them ninety percent of the time. But there's always that ten percent when some dude manages to camp at a critical spot with some hand cannon and kill me over and over, and that's what I blame on the game.

And yes, I was going after the enemy sniper alone. What choice did I have? I tried to get my team to help, but they wouldn't. They were too busy getting their asses slaughtered by the German tanks at the hangar, and they wouldn't listen to me. There was nothing I could do about it. Teamwork is great and all, but sometimes you have no choice but to go it alone. So it's even more frustrating to be killed over and over by a player who's just laying there taking pot shots with a far superior weapon to my own just because he happened to show up when the sniper class was open.

Are you understanding any of this?

 

[Vonreuter]

What? Somebody cares about points and balance? I just enjoy "living" the game. I love the bolt-action rifles, although lately I've been using SMGs a lot (it's easy to become proficient and rack kills with these). My latest form of fun is playing as a Russkie sapper (or Saper) in the Kessel. Blowing up those doors is just a lot of fun, and the PPD or PPSh-41 (I prefer the later versions) is the best weapon for close-range combat.

I wouldn't suggest balancing the classes, because that's very arcadeish. However, there is a way to balance this game, and that's making specialized classes spawn at a slower rate. Snipers were rare individiduals, and a sector might have two pairs (they usually operated in pairs) at most. That means that the sniper might as well be killed off completely on the first death. However, I regard the guys with scopes as "marksmen" just to convince myself that this game is realistic, because they don't fight like snipers (a sniper would rarely take part in this kind of combat).

So... I'd suggest increasing the spawning times of some of the rarer classes and equipment. Let there be two spawn counters: one for "support", i.e. snipers and tanks (double the normal rate, perhaps?) and one for reinforcements, i.e. regular infantry (MG, PAK-Soldat, riflemen, streloks, pioneers, sapers).

Something like this:

Reinforcements arriving: 20... 19... 18...
Support arriving: 40... 39... 38...

At the point of his death the person playing the (recently deceased) sniper would see both counters and might decide to switch to rifleman or MG-gunner just to spawn quicker instead of waiting for the support counter to get down to zero.

This might enable more people to play the rarer classes, instead of the guys with more money to spend on computers hoarding all the better classes at the start of the round (which is a very elitist system). This would also remove the annoying element of this game that tanks spawn as soon as you destroy them. That is very unsatisfying.

 

[Witzig]

Are you understanding any of this?

As long as you don't tell us where the German Sniper camped, its quite hard to understand the whole Problem...

And if you pwn the hell out of the other Team 90% of the time, i don't see it being such a problem.

 

[Centar]

Uh I think we should have a more realistic anti tank method for the ordinary guy out there for tank maps and combined arms maps. No, your average guy was NEVER given things like panzerfausts. However they would get to use improvised methods EVERY TIME they were available. Things like improvised explosive packs (such as a dozen grenades simply stuck together or a molotov or simply a bag filled with explosive material and a hand grenade as a detonator) were extremely common, because they were readily available almost all the time, cheap, though somewhat ineffective unless they hit certain spots (on top of the engine grill, under the belly, tracks, etc).

We should definately see that. Instead of being able to walk up to an ammo crate and find panzerfausts, we should find these improvised anti tank measures. Much more realistic, and I guess also more gameplay friendly. Would be great, especially once the tank damage models are fixed. It would require skill and tactics to destroy a tank as you'd have to plant the explosive at the right place,

 

[Rrralphster]

I wasn't aware that being on the top of the scoreboard nearly every match meant I was at the bottom of the game's learning curve, but whatever...

Someone lock this thread before I lose my f___ing temper with these imbiciles.

Yes please lock this thread before this guy can insult more people by calling them names.
This is no way to discuss on a forum...

 

[Daemion]

And I'll try to make this as clear as possible:
[...]I nearly always use rifles, and I kick ass with them ninety percent of the time. But there's always that ten percent when some dude manages to camp at a critical spot with some hand cannon and kill me over and over, and that's what I blame on the game. [...]

Your problem isn't that the game is unbalanced but that you are offended about that some ppl. might be better than you, sometimes.
Maybe that you've played fps-games for your whole life now, but it seems as if you still haven't learned about teamplay. Just a thought of me...

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Amusing thread.

Agree about the AT soldiers and sapers getting bolties.

The rest reads like someone failed at the army motto "adapt and overcome"

IMHO the classes are fine as they are now, as ANY class has it's niche where it dominates over all the others.

And concerning the "every soldier should get a PF": Well, tanks ought to dominate over infantry. In fact, I find them even too "harmless" right now, as it is very easy to sneak up on one and take it (or it's crew) out.

 

[Vonreuter]

Well, tanks are effective against infantry, but in CQC they are vulnerable to close-range AT-weapons, just like it should be. Tanks do not dominate infantry in urban areas, rough terrain or woods. Look at Tchetchenia for example.

As to the quite conservative statement of "adapt and overcome", I don't think pointing out faults in the game or making suggestions means that you can't "adapt and overcome". However, we need to make suggestions if we want to make this game better than it is instead of just "adapting, overcoming and keeping the game exactly the same as it was on release date".

This game has potential to evolve to overcome tank and sniper spamming, so why not take the opportunity and make suggestions and perhaps succeed in pushing the game in the right direction? Sure we can adapt and destroy tanks every 20 seconds, but why not help the game evolve into an even better game?

Don't let the game grow moldy and repetitive just because you CAN "adapt and overcome".

 

[Zigur]

Of course same player with properly tactics should logicaly get kills more/easily with G43 than with Kar98. Yes sometimes you should have trouble facing auto with bolt. Nothing wrong so stop crying for unbalance.

And I like the bolt very much !

It is RO.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

If you have problem taking someone out, use teamwork to do it. That is how you achieve balance.


Ex: You have a bolt rifle and can't get close enough to take a guy out? Pin him down with rifle fire and have someone go in with an SMG or 'nades...etc etc...

If you are trying to do it all alone, well, expect failure.

 

[Birger]

So, you were playing Rakowice and you wanted to take out the '88 by veering left as soon as the Perimeter Defenses were taken. You were shot by a sniper that you (apparently?) didn't see. You then switched to a rifleman and went the exact same route, to ah, try and "flush him out"? That doesn't work in RO. If you see someone who you can't take out, then you go a different route. You warn your team by saying "Sniper on left, near [insert location]" and just head to the Bunker, or the Hangar.

What you did was you did a Lemming tactic, you went to the (seemingly) same place every time until you died, except for that time where you didn't go the same route.. and you almost got to him, but still died.. After which you say that he has bad skill because he fired rapidly with the semi-automatic. Bad skill? For killing someone +6 times? From what it sounds like, he played well.

Your insults that you've dished out to multiple people in this thread is laughable, when they simply suggest that you could have been doing something wrong, you put up a big defense about how it was the snipers fault, and how you weren't properly equipped to deal with a sniper in a warzone. The simple fact is that he was a sniper, and you weren't. If he was so bad, as you say, then you could have ran straight at him, zig-zagging the entire way, and surely he would have wasted his entire clip on you?

The only valid statement that you made was the rifle slots for anti-tankers/sappers, though IMO they should get an option of either rifle or SMG.

Next time I would suggest going a different route, because there's always a different route, or just going after another objective.

 

[Hyperion2010]

I think the key point for ROO is that improvements and changes should do the following.

They should improve the players ability to "adapt and overcome" THAT is how you make a realism game better, NOT by chaning things that rest well under that framework. By simply changing things and leaving a players ability to adapt the same the problem doesnt go away. You have to attak the problem, which includes certain things in the game that make it harder to adapt realistically.

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

I know this has been complained about before, and I know it's mostly a map design consideration.

I'm tired of getting mowed down by submachineguns, sniped by scoped rifles, and hit from every angle by that stupid Sturmgewehr. Sometimes, you look at the scoreboard, and there is not a single rifleman on either team... except for me... I love to use rifles, but I get frustrated at not being able to make any progress because I'm simply outgunned. There are simply too many advanced weapons available, and some bad choices of kits for various classes. Even worse, if you come on to a server that's nearly full, you have no choice but to use a bolt, even though the enemy is primarily armed with much better weapons. This is neither realistic nor good for gameplay.

My suggestions:
- Sapper and German anti-tank classes should be armed with rifles. These guys were just regular infantry who had been given special jobs. They should have standard issue weapons.

-Anti-tank classes should be more numerous on combined-arms maps. In fact, I think all the German riflemen should be armed with a rifle and ONE Panzerfaust each. The Soviets should have a mixture of dedicated anti-tank rifles and regular riflemen with captured Panzerfausts.

- Bolt-action and self-loading rifles shouldn't be mixed on the same map. I couldn't find any historical information on this, but my guess is that new weapons would probably be issued at at least the company level, meaning all the standard infantry would be using the same weapon. History aside, it just makes more sense for game balance.

- Assault troops should be limited to one or two for the Germans, but possibly as many as eight for the Soviets. You could make up the imbalance by giving the Germans more medium machineguns, as well as the Sturmgewehr on late-war maps. You have to be careful though, since giving the Ruskies too many SMGs would actually cripple them at long range.

Welcome to war.

 

[Knapp|3. SS|]

Okay smartasses. Yeah, I'm pretty good with a rifle too. Still, it's annoying to get sniped over and over with a scoped G43 when all I have to shoot back with is a Mosin. Even if I can negate his advantage in range, then he'll just pop me with his pistol. You see what I'm complaining about?

In reality you would never charge a sniper or go anywhere NEAR his position without support from some sort of LMG..and even then it's stupid.

 

[Phoenix-D]

If he didn't have the pistol I wager he'd have smashed you over the head with his rifle.

RO is balanced, but on a TEAM level, not on an individual level. Your twitch skills might be good, but it seems your tactics are..a bit lacking.

You go where the *enemy* is weak, not where you are. Trying to attack a sniper over broad stretches of open ground- what did you expect to happen?

Speaking of tactics, where was your team's BA-64? Most teams don't seem to use it; if it was available you could have crossed the open ground to the sniper with complete impunity.

EDIT: Oh, by the way: firing rounds quickly with the pistol isn't the sign of a bad player. The pistol is a fairly crappy CQB weapon but fires quickly; you don't have time to aim when you're using it. The only hope is to wack off a clip and hope you're good enough to make enough rounds hit from the hip.

 

[Avenger]

I don't know how long you guys have been playing RO, but if you want to stick with the "war is hell" explaination for the classes, then fine. They have no basis in history or common sense, but fine. Sooner or later you're going to end up in a really competitive match and you're going to get owned by someone just because he came out of his spawn armed to the teeth. Then you're going to get frustrated and you might see what I'm talking about.

RO is still a game. Some of us believe games should be fair.