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Tiger - The Facts

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#62
Sichartshofen said:
This would mean that every tank on the Eastern front would blow up after 2 hits, T60 was capable of punching through 50-70mm of armor and the IS2 would blow up Panzer IV tanks with 1 hit.

Now I'll say this again. The tank damage model in the beta version (not the mod!) was different. Hitting an undamaged tank in the ammo storage with any tank cannon (75mm, 88mm, 85mm, 122mm) and Panzerfaust destroyed it. Hitting a tank in the engine disabled any tank.


Now in the game 2 shots will destroy any undamaged tank no matter where you aim. You now need 2 Panzerf
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#64
pkw lll in bondarevo

pkw lll in bondarevo

this is a little off topic but..... im trying to compare tank superiority from both sides.... t34s and kv 1s should easily out-match pkw lll and lV but it all depends on the model.... ok so the lV are f1....
but in the manual the stats for the pkw lll are for a 50cm/ L42 and the model given is L -- this i believe was a 50cm/L 60.... these little things do kinda make a difference..... also.... there is alot of difference in amour betw models.... so it makes a big diff.... the same with the kv 1S i think there is more than one version of this.... i dont know much about kvs but i know some had more amour than tigers.....
 
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#66
SasQuatch said:
...But still, it's not the machine that makes the killer, it's the operator. I can do pretty well on a Tiger on Arad, as long as you use it as a 'rifle' and not an 'smg' :) Your key asset is your driver, and that goes for almost all the tanks in Ostfront. Good driver > Good Armor.
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The part about a good driver is so true! If I am in a Tiger alone, when I come upon an enemy, I will angle the tank properly before moving to the turret to engage. Most of the time, the shots bounce harmlessly off. If I have a driver, they almost always (despite my pleading) face the enemy tank head on, and depending on the range one or two shots and we are dead. I try to explain this to the driver, and they almost always go 'but the armor is thickest in the front'.
 
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#69
LemoN said:
then why did u put in the F2 if u mostly have 1944 maps?

PS: sry i actually wanted mto delete that ffs but im a bit confused with the editsystem here :S
u first have to push the edit button to get into the edit screen then npush edit again and then post?
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I believe because the difference between the F1/F2 are small and thus it was easier to modell those two in the amount of time they had, but i guess we will see some new Tanks/Uniforms in the Future :).
 
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#70
I tend to agree with the bloke who says the tank damage model is different in ROOST than in the Mod. I have an extremely hard time killing tanks in one shot anymore. I don't know if this was a conscious decision on the Dev's part, or simply the result of them fiddling with the DM.

Part of the problem is that it doesn't appear that crewmembers can be killed in the tank (they aren't a damagable system), which is clearly wrong.

Everything else aside, an 88mm round hitting the driver's hatch on a T34 at close range IS going to kill the driver. In the Mod, it worked. Now it doesn't.
 
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#71
prinz eugen said:
i have to say that is my impression as well.... even in the mod.... i had better luck taking out a t 34 with one shot if i hit it in the right place with pkw iv... now with a tiger it almost always takes 2 shots..... it least thats been my experience so far.... the game--for me--is only a week old....
i understand all the stuff about range and map size.... yet there seem to be some strange choices made ... the conclusion people reach(who dont know anything about ww2)-- and i hear it expressed on-line all the time.... is that "tigers suck"..... to me, its as if someone made a "realistic" car racing game and a bmw ended up being not much better than a yugo.... and the developers say that the yugo won the race because it had better gas mileage and the bmw ran out of gas and lost! whether its right or wrong, thats the kind of impression people come away with.....
like you i hope im wrong but the game--for whatever reason--seems more "aracade like"
i hope im just an idiot who rushes to judge without knowing all the facts...i will be very happy to be proven wrong...
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Great example, you ve just said eveything. But still people in the forums forget one thing: Most complaints dont come as the tiger is not god-most people say that its most times actually weaker than any t-34...and to be honest although I ve played the mod and not roost yet-still waiting for the demo-its hard for me to believe this realistic ballistic system or whatsoever from the devs yet, when in the same time the bugs list seems to be very very long...Dont know, before the launch I was feeling that this is going to be the game for me but now if I dont play a demo myself its a definite no no.
 
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#73
Hans_klempner said:
Denwad that Panther video was the most amazing WW2 footage I ever seen. In Fact Ive never seen live action on WW2 except a couple on Dday and Ortona.
Id greatly appreciate If you could tell me where you got this footage from!


Thanks!
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I have the whole video I'm sure someone on the forums about a year ago or so posted it and that's how I have it. I'll see if I can host it.
 
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#74
Hans_klempner said:
Denwad that Panther video was the most amazing WW2 footage I ever seen. In Fact Ive never seen live action on WW2 except a couple on Dday and Ortona.
Id greatly appreciate If you could tell me where you got this footage from!
Thanks!
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So would i, i was equally impressed all i can say is omg but i feel sry for that guy who was last getting out really brings home the reality of combat.
 
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#75
Witzig said:
I believe because the difference between the F1/F2 are small and thus it was easier to modell those two in the amount of time they had, but i guess we will see some new Tanks/Uniforms in the Future :).
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i think there is some confusion being caused here.... so i'll say just one or two things about this.... first there is one big difference betw the F1 and the F2-- the main armament..... i have no problem with the dev. making just 2 models of the lV series as long as the F1s represent all model with the short barrel gun and the F2s represent all models with the long barrel gun.... so it would break down like this:
F1=models A thru F (short barrel)
F2= models F2, G, H etc (long barrel)
the dev have gotten it right as far as can tell--i dont expect them to model every tank in ww2
But i can understand peoples frustration..... if the dev. are going to use one tank model to represent more than one model/ type, they need to be clear about it.... in the historical notes or something.... there are even more problems with lll series.... in the game it just says pkw lll... in the notes it says L is model but the stats are for another model.... J or something... there are pretty big diff. betw. diff models.... and how they play out in the game...
























































f1
 
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#76
Prince Eugen, the reason some people are going nuts that the F2 is in 1944 maps is not because it was a rare model, but because its gun performs less.


F2 does NOT = G or H. The F2 used the L/43 gun, and later G's and all H's used the L/48. Believe it or not, the extra 5 calibers adds considerable to penetrative power due to increased velocity.



Also, some people seem to be obsessed with the idea of overmatch. The thing is though, just because a shot has a caliber greater than the thickness of the plate does NOT mean it will penetrate, it only increases the chances of a penetration.

Someone in here said that the 122 should easily penetrate 80mm armor, that is not necessarily so. You could have a 500mm projectile going 400fps and it won't do squat: velocity is really what matters.

Also, armor slope, armor type, and whether or not the shot has a piercing cap, overmatch isn't the only magic word.
 
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#77
people also seem to forget that the german tanks were in real life not as good as the russian tanks (well the t/34 and KV-1 types). The germans didnt win there battles and there victories in France and Russian by having the best tanks they won it through having the best troops with the best training of any army in the world.
 
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#78
Jack said:
Prince Eugen, the reason some people are going nuts that the F2 is in 1944 maps is not because it was a rare model, but because its gun performs less.


F2 does NOT = G or H. The F2 used the L/43 gun, and later G's and all H's used the L/48. Believe it or not, the extra 5 calibers adds considerable to penetrative power due to increased velocity.



Also, some people seem to be obsessed with the idea of overmatch. The thing is though, just because a shot has a caliber greater than the thickness of the plate does NOT mean it will penetrate, it only increases the chances of a penetration.

Someone in here said that the 122 should easily penetrate 80mm armor, that is not necessarily so. You could have a 500mm projectile going 400fps and it won't do squat: velocity is really what matters.

Also, armor slope, armor type, and whether or not the shot has a piercing cap, overmatch isn't the only magic word.
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thanks.... my mistake
 
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#79
Jack said:
Someone in here said that the 122 should easily penetrate 80mm armor, that is not necessarily so. You could have a 500mm projectile going 400fps and it won't do squat: velocity is really what matters.
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all your other points are valid, but the DS-10 ( 790m/s ) gun will smash through 80mm of armor like it was paper at nearly all combat ranges ( upto 2000m )
 
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#80
Yes I agree.


I was just saying the way you phrased it initially it sounded like just because it was 122mm hitting 80mm then the result is assured, I am confident you personally understand the principles, I was just elaborating for others that would maybe get the idea that if caliber > armor thickness you automatically are going to penetrate.


A good example for people to think about is the 75mm fired in the L/24 versus the L/43 or 48.

The 75mm shot fired in early Panzer IV's definitely overmatched the armor of early T-34's, but still did poorly because of low velocity.
 
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